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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old May 9, 2020, 4:22 pm
  #18796  
 
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42.
Turning our attention back to the question at hand [Great Falls to Fargo, 3 stops, 1985], surprising though it may seem given that we're traveling in Northwest's backyard, we are actually looking for a different airline operating a different aircraft type. Billings was indeed the first stop, but the routing differed from the one you've submitted after that point
OK, well there's a bit of a choice now, and probably not the direct routing that Northwest would do, but someone through-routing a flight through a hub with something of a dogleg. Denver seems a possibility, either Frontier or United. Can't quite see United doing it, so :

Frontier 737.
Great Falls
Billings
Denver
Sioux Falls
Fargo

Meanwhile, our foxy encounter seems to have got more attention and anecdotes than anything aviation. Here is the damage (6" ruler, for scale, courtesy of Little Miss WHBM)




Of course, you have a greater selection of animals across North America than we do here. My aunt who lived in Penticton BC would apparently desperately try to prevent the occasional standoff when their dog tried to fight the skunk. You can imagine how that one ended up ...

In a further story from the past, when aged about 10, our family cat came into the house one Sunday morning covered in some malodorous black oily substance. My father is appalled that somebody has thrown it over her. All activity suspended for the morning while she is eventually taken round to the veterinarian, who applies some anti-oil powder treatment. A visit to our neighbours for Sunday cocktails went by the board.

Meanwhile, at said neighbours' house, a separate event is unfurling. My schoolfriend David narrowly escapes a spanking for Not Telling The Truth. Because his father went into their garage that morning, to find a large open pot of creosote wood treatment had been overturned over everything. Dave had gone in there the previous evening, but denied anything untoward happened. This was rejected. Nobody else had gone in, the doors were all fully locked; only the small top window, which clearly nobody could get through, was open ...

Now lets bring this back on track. A while later I discovered David's family had at the back of a cupboard a yellowing ABC World Airways Guide (OAG equivalent). It was actually the first one I had ever seen. His father did a bit of business travelling and had likely brought an old one home from the office. I would guess it was about 1963, some pages had been torn out to use as packaging (heathens !) but it was mostly intact. It had the old style timetable pages, in block form by airline, and all the little printers' marks for aircraft type. What would we give to have that now ?

So, a Bonus Question. Where we lived our nearest airport geographically was Liverpool, which at the time had a substantial multi-daily service to Heathrow, although a somewhat convoluted drive to get there. His father travelled regularly to London, but liked to go from another airport which had a convenient twice-daily flight to Heathrow and back, one which has not had scheduled services for more than 50 years now, but is still very much in use. So, airline and aircraft type.

Last edited by WHBM; May 9, 2020 at 4:40 pm
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Old May 9, 2020, 5:55 pm
  #18797  
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Originally Posted by Herb687
52. (1988) Five different U.S. airlines have owned and operated Boeings 747SP. Three of those airlines have operated it on domestic flights within the continental U.S. Per the OAG I used to reference this question, only one airline now operates a single 747SP flight on a coast to coast routing. Identify the route and the airline please.
It's not TWA or anything out of either SFO or BOS

UA would have already had the SPs in 1988 so I will instead guess UA IAD-LAX.

Well Herb, you've got the right airline and yet rather surprisingly, neither LAX nor IAD were part of this single route. Please, do guess again!
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Old May 9, 2020, 6:10 pm
  #18798  
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41-
MEX-MIA AM DC8
MIA-JFK TW L10
JFK-YMX Aerolineas Argentinas 747
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Old May 9, 2020, 6:33 pm
  #18799  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
42. (1985)It’s not often you have cause to travel from your home outside Great Falls, MT to Fargo, ND. The reason for this trip is a nicely priced hay baler that you read about from an ad in Modern Farmer magazine. Given its condition of the baler and price, it’s worth making the trip to Fargo to check it out. Flying to most anywhere from GTF usually involves a connection or two, so you’re thrilled to discover that you’ll be able to fly to Fargo without any potentially troublesome connections thanks to a single daily 3 stop direct flight departing Great Falls each morning at 7:45am. You’ll even be served a couple of snacks enroute. Identify the airline, the three enroute stops in order and the aircraft type operating this service.

OK, well there's a bit of a choice now, and probably not the direct routing that Northwest would do, but someone through-routing a flight through a hub with something of a dogleg. Denver seems a possibility, either Frontier or United. Can't quite see United doing it, so :

Frontier 737.
Great Falls
Billings
Denver
Sioux Falls
Fargo


It doesn't happen very often - in fact I may never have seen it until now - where both the airline and a 3-stop route are in question and someone correctly picks the route first, if not the aircraft as well. But indeed you have, Mr. M - So, you've got the route down, and if it's not Frontier then it must be... (UA or CO?)

Here's the schedule:

Airline_________ XX_____ Great Falls (GTF) 745a-823a Billings (BIL) 853a-1016a S Denver (DEN) 1057a-123p S Sioux Falls (FSD) 147p-236p Fargo (FAR) 737-200 Daily
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Old May 9, 2020, 6:38 pm
  #18800  
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Originally Posted by jrl767
41. (1979) After a week of studying archeological artifacts recently discovered in Mexico Citys Chapultepec Park, its time to return home to your work in the Department of Anthropology at the Universit de Montral. Iberia offers a nonstop flight but its sold out all week. Thankfully your Qubcois tinged Spanish is good enough to have netted you a newly expired OAG from the travel agency located downstairs in your hotel lobby. A thorough perusal of its pages allows you to cobble together an exciting three flight routing up to Montreal involving three different airlines operating three different aircraft types, each built by a different manufacturer. Each of the airlines is also its countrys main flag carrier. As an added bonus, you can complete the entire trip in a single day. Identify the three airlines, the aircraft type each flies and the routing of this trip. Buena suerte!

MEX-MIA AM DC8 Correct!
MIA-JFK TW L10 Incorrect
JFK-YMX Aerolineas Argentinas 747 Incorrect
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Old May 9, 2020, 7:05 pm
  #18801  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
Well Herb, you've got the right airline and yet rather surprisingly, neither LAX nor IAD were part of this single route. Please, do guess again!
How about JFK-SEA? That was a longstanding UA route and both were international gateways for UA at the time.
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Old May 9, 2020, 9:56 pm
  #18802  
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Wild guess on 41.

MIA-JFK Aerolinease Argentinas 742
JFK-YMX British Airways L-1011
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Old May 9, 2020, 10:30 pm
  #18803  
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Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach
41. (1979) After a week of studying archeological artifacts recently discovered in Mexico City’s Chapultepec Park, it’s time to return home to your work in the Department of Anthropology at the Universit de Montral. Iberia offers a nonstop flight but it’s sold out all week. Thankfully your Qubcois tinged Spanish is good enough to have netted you a newly expired OAG from the travel agency located downstairs in your hotel lobby. A thorough perusal of its pages allows you to cobble together an exciting three flight routing up to Montreal involving three different airlines operating three different aircraft types, each built by a different manufacturer. Each of the airlines is also its country’s main flag carrier. As an added bonus, you can complete the entire trip in a single day. Identify the three airlines, the aircraft type each flies and the routing of this trip. Buena suerte!

Wild guess on 41.

MIA-JFK Aerolinease Argentinas 742
JFK-YMX British Airways L-1011


That is... seriously wild, YVR. The main issue is in the AR flight which would not be allowed on its own due to the segment being totally within the US. The only way you could fly MIA-JFK on that flight would be if you had started out of Argentina and stopped over in MIA before continuing on to JFK - i.e. CONDITIONAL STOPOVER TRAFFIC

As to BA up to YMX - there were no BA flights operating this segment in 1979. I will say that no Lockheed products were involved in this itinerary.

Now then - the night is young. Please, do guess again!

Last edited by Seat 2A; May 10, 2020 at 1:25 pm
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Old May 9, 2020, 10:33 pm
  #18804  
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Originally Posted by Herb687
52. (1988) Five different U.S. airlines have owned and operated Boeing’s 747SP. Three of those airlines have operated it on domestic flights within the continental U.S. Per the OAG I used to reference this question, only one airline now operates a single 747SP flight on a coast to coast routing. Identify the route and the airline please.

How about JFK-SEA? That was a longstanding UA route and both wereinternational gateways for UA at the time.

There weren't a lot of other options left, were there? Well you are correct, Sir! Here's the eastbound schedule:

United UA 22 Seattle (SEA) 1250p-850p L New York (JFK) 747SP Daily

I used to fly SEA-IAD or JFK a lot back in the day. Unfortunately the aircraft were mostly DC-10s and 757s back then. I did once log a UA 747SP on a SFO-IAD leg which we covered in just over 4 hours, Being as the SP was used primarily for international flights, all of the catering was done using the international plates and cutlery., even on domestic flights. My only other flight on a United SP was LAX-NAN-SYD back in January of 1987. I've never slept better on an airplane than I did on those old First Class cradle seats and if the captain hadn't wakened us to say we'd be putting down in Fiji for additional fuel, I might have slept a good 8-9 hours undisturbed. Oh wait! There was a Tokyo to Los Angeles flight in 1987 as well. Love the SP!

Last edited by Seat 2A; May 9, 2020 at 11:24 pm
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Old May 10, 2020, 12:00 am
  #18805  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A

That is... seriously wild, YVR. The main issue is in the AR flight which would not be allowed on its own due to the segment being totally within the US. The only way you could fly MIA-JFK on that flight would be if you had started out of Argentina and stopped over in MIA before continuing on to JFK - i.e. CONDITIONAL STOPOVER TRAFFIC
No further guesses. I thought about the conditional stopover thing since cabotage isn't/wasn't allowed. I was under the impression when QF operated JFK <=> LAX, one could take that flight connecting to/from an international flight (not necessarily QF).
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Old May 10, 2020, 12:26 am
  #18806  
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41- one more try:
MIA-JFK Pan Am 747
JFK-YMX Aeroflot IL-62

as an aside, my only revenue flight on a 747SP was PA, LAX-JFK in Dec 78

in May 86 the future Mrs767 and I were booked on a UA SP NRT-LAX, but when the jet went mechanical a couple days earlier in SYD, we wound up going NRT-SEA-LAX (which actually worked out well, as we arranged a 22-hour layover ... during which we met up with her family for dinner, and let them know about the plans we had decided to make for November)

Last edited by jrl767; May 10, 2020 at 12:34 am
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Old May 10, 2020, 4:31 am
  #18807  
 
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42.

Well at least you know I'm not looking them up

United.

Last edited by WHBM; May 10, 2020 at 10:13 am
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Old May 10, 2020, 1:37 pm
  #18808  
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Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach
41. (1979)After a week of studying archeological artifacts recently discovered in Mexico City’s Chapultepec Park, it’s time to return home to your work in the Department of Anthropology at the Universit de Montral. Iberia offers a nonstop flight but it’s sold out all week. Thankfully your Qubcois tinged Spanish is good enough to have netted you a newly expired OAG from the travel agency located downstairs in your hotel lobby. A thorough perusal of its pages allows you to cobble together an exciting three flight routing up to Montreal involving three different airlines operating three different aircraft types, each built by a different manufacturer. Each of the airlines is also its country’s main flag carrier. As an added bonus, you can complete the entire trip in a single day. Identify the three airlines, the aircraft type each flies and the routing of this trip. Buena suerte!

No further guesses. I thought about the conditional stopover thing since cabotage isn't/wasn't allowed. I was under the impression when QF operated JFK <=> LAX, one could take that flight connecting to/from an international flight (not necessarily QF).

Correct me if I'm wrong anyone, but in the case of the U.S. domestic JFK-LAX flight referenced above, I believe that one could fly it alone ONLY if they were later continuing on aboard QANTAS to a point beyond U.S. borders. Now this is probably a question for working airline personnel but I wonder if one could fly the US domestic QF leg if one were later connecting to a flight in the OneWorld alliance? Such a scenario has no bearing on the above question's timeline since so far as I know airline alliances such as OneWorld did not yet exist in 1979. Interline agreements, yes, but alliances as we know them today, no.

Anyway, following jrl767's response below, we are that much closer to completing this question. Given the new information, your next answer just might be the one that solves this question. So - as we like to say here at the OTAQ&D,

Please, guess again!
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Old May 10, 2020, 1:45 pm
  #18809  
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Originally Posted by jrl767
41. (1979) After a week of studying archeological artifacts recently discovered in Mexico Citys Chapultepec Park, its time to return home to your work in the Department of Anthropology at the Universit de Montral. Iberia offers a nonstop flight but its sold out all week. Thankfully your Qubcois tinged Spanish is good enough to have netted you a newly expired OAG from the travel agency located downstairs in your hotel lobby. A thorough perusal of its pages allows you to cobble together an exciting three flight routing up to Montreal involving three different airlines operating three different aircraft types, each built by a different manufacturer. Each of the airlines is also its countrys main flag carrier. As an added bonus, you can complete the entire trip in a single day. Identify the three airlines, the aircraft type each flies and the routing of this trip. Buena suerte!

One more try:
MIA-JFK Pan Am 747
JFK-YMX Aeroflot IL-62


You are edging ever closer, J. Pan Am for the MIA-JFK segment is correct, however the aircraft was not a 747. Aeroflot is incorrect however the aircraft for the JFK-YMX leg was indeed an IL-62.

So then, knowing what you now know, this question should be solved very shortly. Good luck!

And in the FWIW department, my first flight aboard a 747SP came in September 1979 between SFO and LAX aboard Pan Am. The stand-by fare cost me just $13.00
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Old May 10, 2020, 1:48 pm
  #18810  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
42. (1985) It’s not often you have cause to travel from your home outside Great Falls, MT to Fargo, ND. The reason for this trip is a nicely priced hay baler that you read about from an ad in Modern Farmer magazine. Given its condition of the baler and price, it’s worth making the trip to Fargo to check it out. Flying to most anywhere from GTF usually involves a connection or two, so you’re thrilled to discover that you’ll be able to fly to Fargo without any potentially troublesome connections thanks to a single daily 3 stop direct flight departing Great Falls each morning at 7:45am. You’ll even be served a couple of snacks enroute. Identify the airline, the three enroute stops in order and the aircraft type operating this service.

Well at least you know I'm not looking them up United.

You Da Man, Mr. M! Here's the schedule:

United UA 828 Great Falls (GTF) 745a-823a Billings (BIL) 853a-1016a S Denver (DEN) 1057a-123p S Sioux Falls (FSD) 147p-236p Fargo (FAR) 737-200 Daily
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