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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Mar 28, 20, 1:59 pm
  #18196  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
4- in mentally revisiting similar questions about “named” flights of this era, I can only associate a few airlines with the practice, and one of those (United) wasn’t flying to any southern states from NYC ... “Southernaire” doesn’t sound like anything that National would have chosen (iirc they favored monikers like “Flamingo”), so I’m going to guess that the operator was Capital Airlines ... which certainly implies that the aircraft was a Viscount

as for the route, perhaps Newark (EWR) - Birmingham (BHM) - New Orleans (MSY)
4. Capital Airlines: Yes!
Vickers Viscount: Yes!
First stop Birmingham: Yes!
Second stop (and RON location) New Orleans: Nope!

We once again await the tap-in.....
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Old Mar 28, 20, 2:07 pm
  #18197  
 
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And with the yard work safely concluded, here's a nice photo from the Caribbean on a lovely but breezy day.....

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Tran...lander/5941843
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Old Mar 28, 20, 3:29 pm
  #18198  
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4- seems to me that we had a question a few months back about UA Caravelle intra-state operations, and one of the segments was Birmingham-Mobile (MOB) — which would have certainly been a legacy of Capital’s Viscount services

I’m also presuming that I correctly answered the part of the question about the originating airport (EWR)
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Old Mar 28, 20, 3:44 pm
  #18199  
 
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25.
You are in Sydney and it's 1972. You are booked in first class on a flight to London which will make six stops en route and also has an interesting flight number change from flight 785 to flight 785A at one of the stops. This particular flight operates this specific routing only once a week on Fridays. Identify the air carrier, all six stops in order and the aircraft.
Well, this could be anybody, as quite a few used to renumber flights with an A on the end on this route. BOAC used to do it if they routed through Hong Kong, Air India used to do it passing through Bombay ... but I think those two kept the main unsuffixed number for the London end.

So I'll go for MSA, with a 707. Those 6 stops could be anywhere. Complete guess at Perth, Singapore, Colombo, Bahrain, Rome and Frankfurt. Those are really the main points along the way (Bahrain was the main Gulf point, but lost it to Dubai).
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Old Mar 28, 20, 4:14 pm
  #18200  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
4- seems to me that we had a question a few months back about UA Caravelle intra-state operations, and one of the segments was Birmingham-Mobile (MOB) — which would have certainly been a legacy of Capital’s Viscount services

I’m also presuming that I correctly answered the part of the question about the originating airport (EWR)
Yep, I neglected to mention that Newark is correct....and so is Mobile. Here's the round trip sched for the "Southernaire".....

CA 77: New York Newark (EWR) 6:15p - 8:53p Birmingham (BHM) 9:25p - 10:30p Mobile (MOB)
Freq: Daily
Service class: A (Jetprop First Class)
Meal service: Dinner EWR-BHM
Equip: VISCOUNT

CA 70: Mobile (MOB) 8:15a - 9:18a Birmingham (BHM) 9:40a - 1:33p New York Newark (EWR)
Freq: Daily
Service class: A (Jetprop First Class)
Meal service: Lunch BHM-EWR
Equip: VISCOUNT
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Old Mar 28, 20, 4:40 pm
  #18201  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Well, this could be anybody, as quite a few used to renumber flights with an A on the end on this route. BOAC used to do it if they routed through Hong Kong, Air India used to do it passing through Bombay ... but I think those two kept the main unsuffixed number for the London end.

So I'll go for MSA, with a 707. Those 6 stops could be anywhere. Complete guess at Perth, Singapore, Colombo, Bahrain, Rome and Frankfurt. Those are really the main points along the way (Bahrain was the main Gulf point, but lost it to Dubai).


25. Almost absolutely correct! And close enough as the service in question actually stopped at Bombay and not Colombo.

Here's the sched for this flight operated by Malaysia-Singapore Airlines (MSA)......

ML 785/785A: Sydney (SYD) 11:30 - 14:15 Perth (PER) 15:00 - 19:30 Singapore (SIN) 20:30 - 23:25 Bombay (BOM) 00:10 - 00:50 Bahrain (BAH) 01:35 - 05:55 Rome (FCO) 06:40 - 07:25 Frankfurt (FRA) 08:10 - 09:35 London Heathrow (LHR)
Freq: Fridays only
Service classes: F/Y
Meal services: Lunch SYD-PER, Dinner PER-SIN, Dinner SIN-BOM, Continental Breakfast BAH-FCO, Continental Breakfast FCO-FRA, Breakfast FRA-LHR
Equip: 707
Note: Flt. no. change at SIN from 785 to 785A
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Old Mar 28, 20, 5:03 pm
  #18202  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post

25. Almost absolutely correct! And close enough as the service in question actually stopped at Bombay and not Colombo.

Here's the sched for this flight operated by Malaysia-Singapore Airlines (MSA)......

ML 785/785A: Sydney (SYD) 11:30 - 14:15 Perth (PER) 15:00 - 19:30 Singapore (SIN) 20:30 - 23:25 Bombay (BOM) 00:10 - 00:50 Bahrain (BAH) 01:35 - 05:55 Rome (FCO) 06:40 - 07:25 Frankfurt (FRA) 08:10 - 09:35 London Heathrow (LHR)
Freq: Fridays only
Service classes: F/Y
Meal services: Lunch SYD-PER, Dinner PER-SIN, Dinner SIN-BOM, Continental Breakfast BAH-FCO, Continental Breakfast FCO-FRA, Breakfast FRA-LHR
Equip: 707
Note: Flt. no. change at SIN from 785 to 785A
I did a lot of these ML (and later, SQ) SIN-LHR flights in the '70s. BAH was always the mid-point/crew change spot (QF used it too). Usually always 1 or 2 stops in SE Asia, 1 in the sub-continent and 2 more in Europe. I am sure I've stopped in BK (now DMK), KUL (now SZB), BOM (CMB was much later), maybe CCU, and ATH, FCO, FRA, AMS, ORY.
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Old Mar 29, 20, 10:51 am
  #18203  
 
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20.
Now it's 1969 and you are in Long Beach where you have not only visited a classic ocean liner that is permanently docked but also a very large seaplane on static display. You receive a message from friends who are in the Lake Tahoe area on a skiing trip: "Come on up! Conditions are excellent!" Well, why not....and you find there's a direct flight from Long Beach (LGB) to Lake Tahoe (TVL) which makes three stops en route but only operates once a week arriving into TVL just before lunch time which fits your schedule perfectly. And most fortunately, the day you need to travel is the day this flight operates. Name the airline, all three stops and the equipment
Now a once-weekly flight if it was nonstop, I would go for Holiday Airlines with one of their ex-PSA Electras, who did this sort of thing at the time. But three stops ... that is presumably a schedule, and if once a week is probably some different weekend arrangement. Air West are the only carrier I can think of that might serve these places, so lets go for a Fairchild F27, running something like Long Beach-LAX-Fresno-San Francisco-Tahoe.
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Old Mar 29, 20, 11:09 am
  #18204  
 
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Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach View Post
I did a lot of these ML (and later, SQ) SIN-LHR flights in the '70s. BAH was always the mid-point/crew change spot (QF used it too). Usually always 1 or 2 stops in SE Asia, 1 in the sub-continent and 2 more in Europe. I am sure I've stopped in BK (now DMK), KUL (now SZB), BOM (CMB was much later), maybe CCU, and ATH, FCO, FRA, AMS, ORY.
Malaysia-Singapore Airlines (MSA) was also operating four other westbound flights per week with Boeing 707 equipment from Australia to London at this time in 1972, including:

Melbourne - Perth - Singapore - Colombo - Bahrain - Athens - Zurich - London Heathrow departing MEL every Tuesday

Sydney - Djakarta - Singapore - Bombay - Bahrain - Rome - Frankfurt - London Heathrow departing SYD every Wednesday

Melbourne - Perth - Singapore - Colombo - Bahrain - Athens - Zurich - London Heathrow departing MEL every Saturday

Sydney - Bali - Singapore - Bombay - Bahrain - Rome - Frankfurt - London Heathrow departing SYD every Sunday

This European service was fairly recent development for MSA as the airline was not operating scheduled passenger service west of Bangkok in 1969.
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Old Mar 29, 20, 11:18 am
  #18205  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Now a once-weekly flight if it was nonstop, I would go for Holiday Airlines with one of their ex-PSA Electras, who did this sort of thing at the time. But three stops ... that is presumably a schedule, and if once a week is probably some different weekend arrangement. Air West are the only carrier I can think of that might serve these places, so lets go for a Fairchild F27, running something like Long Beach-LAX-Fresno-San Francisco-Tahoe.

20. Well, it wasn't Air West and the equipment wasn't an F-27 nor did the flight in question stop at LAX, FAT or SFO.

However, you have mentioned Holiday Airlines operating an Electra and the flight in question only operated on Sundays.....

So you are definitely on the right track here.
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Old Mar 29, 20, 12:30 pm
  #18206  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
20. Well, it wasn't Air West and the equipment wasn't an F-27 nor did the flight in question stop at LAX, FAT or SFO.

However, you have mentioned Holiday Airlines operating an Electra and the flight in question only operated on Sundays.....

So you are definitely on the right track here.
Well the only other places I remember Holiday being a regular at were Burbank, San Jose and Oakland. It seems a little unlikely they would have run through all three of them, but I can't think of anywhere else.

When I lived in Van Nuys* in the late 1970s (past posts refer), my Lady Friend of the era had been with the family some years previously on Holiday from Burbank to Tahoe (presumably nonstop). This was considered a grand vacation, with plenty of shots of the Electra on the ramp and during flight. I think it had been a first flight. The family were astounded that I had even heard of Holiday - but of course; they turned up each year in Flight magazine's World Airline Survey. One of their Electras came, about 25 years later, to Channel Express ** in the UK and I used to see it at various places round the country laying over in daytime between its night mail runs, and I would wonder if it was the same aircraft as in those old small 1970s pictures in the family photo album.

I've often wondered if PSA had some financial association with Holiday behind the scenes. The Electras came from PSA, and after some years went back there, which is often indicative that there was some link. Despite both being California intrastate carriers, Holiday only seemed to do routes that PSA didn't.

* : Shortly after, the post office for some reason reclassified the neighbourhood as part of Sherman Oaks, which apparently added about 20% to property values

** : Channel Express gradually morphed into Jet2 (call sign still Channel). Exactly as I type this, we should have been heading this afternoon by taxi after a Jet2 flight London Stansted to Lanzarote airport in the Canary Islands, and on to a very pleasant resort. But we're not. Oh well. Roll on the better times, for all of us.
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Old Mar 29, 20, 1:05 pm
  #18207  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Well the only other places I remember Holiday being a regular at were Burbank, San Jose and Oakland. It seems a little unlikely they would have run through all three of them, but I can't think of anywhere else.

I've often wondered if PSA had some financial association with Holiday behind the scenes. The Electras came from PSA, and after some years went back there, which is often indicative that there was some link. Despite both being California intrastate carriers, Holiday only seemed to do routes that PSA didn't.

Roll on the better times, for all of us.
20. Correct! Here's the sched....

HD 131: Long Beach (LGB) 8:35a - 9:00a (est.) Hollywood/Burbank (BUR) 9:15a - 10:15a (est.) San Jose (SJC) 10:30a - 10:45a (est.) Oakland (OAK) 11:00a - 11:30a Lake Tahoe (TVL)
Freq: Sundays only
Service class: K
Equip: Electra

Holiday Airlines was also operating a daily except on Sunday flight from Long Beach to Lake Tahoe via a stop at BUR which departed LGB at 8:35 am and arrived into TVL at 10:15 am in addition to a daily flight also via a stop at BUR which departed LGB at 6:30 pm and arrived onto TVL at 8:05 pm. The one way fare from both Long Beach and Hollywood/Burbank to Lake Tahoe was $19.95 plus tax with a $2.00 surcharge for ski equipment.

That's an intriguing thought concerning a possible business relationship between Holiday and PSA. To the best of my knowledge, Holiday existed for one reason: to serve Lake Tahoe from both southern California and the S.F. Bay Area. Their routes between southern California and the Bay Area always appeared to me to be incidental as I believe all of their flights either terminated or originated at Lake Tahoe. It is interesting to note that PSA and Air California both initiated Electra service into Lake Tahoe following the end of the service operated by Holiday at TVL.

And with regard to better times, I heartily second that motion!
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Old Mar 29, 20, 7:13 pm
  #18208  
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Sorry for my absence gang - we had an extended power outage yesterday. Here's hoping you're all doing well with lots to keep you happily occupied over the coming days.

3A. What U.S. air carrier was the first to order the Lockheed L-188 Electra and how many did they initially order?

I'll at least get this one started. I'm pretty sure this was American. As to the rest of the question re. fleet numbers, I've no idea. How about 30?

3B. The air carrier in question above operated its new Electra aircraft in two class configuration. How many seats were there in first class and how many seats were there in coach on these airplanes?

Wild guess... First Class was pretty large back then... let's go with 28 up front and 48 in back

Last edited by Seat 2A; Mar 29, 20 at 8:43 pm
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Old Mar 30, 20, 12:07 am
  #18209  
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Cars & aircraft
Military aircraft seem to have more names common with cars, than do civilian aircraft. More so with UK car & aircraft manufacturers

Cougar
Mercury & Grumman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_Cougar (~Mustang based)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F-9_Cougar
and Gulfstream https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulfstream_American_GA-7_Cougar

Maruader
Mercury & Martin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_Marauder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_B-26_Marauder

Hunter
Hillman & Hawker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootes_Arrow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hunter
The Rootes Arrow was made and sold around the world under various names

Victor
Vauxhall & Handley Page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vauxhall_Victor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handley_Page_Victor
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Old Mar 30, 20, 5:27 am
  #18210  
 
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Originally Posted by Mwenenzi View Post
Cars & aircraft
Military aircraft seem to have more names common with cars, than do civilian aircraft. More so with UK car & aircraft manufacturers
Thanks. 3 from my list detected there.

My original list still has 28 civil types (including one jet airliner) which haven't been found yet.

*
Hope you're all keeping well and not running short of things to do if you can't work from home.

KT
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