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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Oct 7, 19, 6:48 pm
  #16741  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Bonus question : Name all the (several) Caravelle operators who served Papeete over time.
Hmmmm.....more than one, you say? I will be looking forward to the correct answers!

I can only think of one air carrier that just might have operated scheduled passenger service with the Caravelle into Papeete (PPT): UTA. I seem to recall that UTA operated Caravelle service between Noumea and Sydney and maybe between Noumea and Auckland as well.....so perhaps UTA also operated the Caravelle on a routing of Noumea - Nandi - Papeete.

And the only other Caravelle operator at Papeete I can think of wasn't operating airline service as it might have been the French military.
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Old Oct 7, 19, 8:50 pm
  #16742  
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48- equipment wasn't a B727-200” also eliminates Delta and Eastern flights via ATL; Braniff was gone; Northwest only served ORD and Seattle from IAD ... I don’t recall Continental running their DC-10s into IAD, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t ... on the basis of UA’s market share at DEN, I think Houston (IAH) would have been a more likely stop

52- I’m thinking 1983 was about the time EA started their deeply discounted late-night coast-to-coast flights that stopped in the midwest ... I took an A300 LAX-ORD, but I seem to recall most were 727s (mostly -100QCs, there may have been a few with -200s) routing thru St. Louis (STL) or Kansas City (MCI) ... let’s say MCI
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Old Oct 8, 19, 8:49 am
  #16743  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
48- ďequipment wasn't a B727-200Ē also eliminates Delta and Eastern flights via ATL; Braniff was gone; Northwest only served ORD and Seattle from IAD ... I donít recall Continental running their DC-10s into IAD, but that doesnít mean they didnít ... on the basis of UAís market share at DEN, I think Houston (IAH) would have been a more likely stop

52- Iím thinking 1983 was about the time EA started their deeply discounted late-night coast-to-coast flights that stopped in the midwest ... I took an A300 LAX-ORD, but I seem to recall most were 727s (mostly -100QCs, there may have been a few with -200s) routing thru St. Louis (STL) or Kansas City (MCI) ... letís say MCI
48. Continental with a DC-10 is correct! Here's the sched....

CO 197: Washington Dulles (IAD) 4:50p - 6:51p Houston Intercontinental (IAH) 7:45p - 8:38p San Diego (SAN)
Freq: Daily
Service classes: F/Y
Meal service: Dinner IAD-IAH & IAH-SAN
Equip: DC-10

52. The Eastern flight in question did not stop at MCI or STL and wasn't operated with a 727 or 72S.
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Old Oct 8, 19, 11:08 am
  #16744  
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52- not an A300; not a 727/72S; not stopping at ATL also likely says it wasn't a TriStar, as I sure don't remember Eastern's L-1011s going anywhere else from LAX ... so that says we have a 757

the elapsed time rules out a Florida stop; while LGA-North Carolina with that jet isn't beyond the realm of the possible -- Charlotte (CLT), Raleigh/Durham (RDU), Greensboro (GSO) -- I really can't wrap my head around the thought of a midnight 757 to LAX from anywhere other than a major EA city

I have very little confidence in guessing ORD, but I have few other ideas at this point
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Old Oct 8, 19, 12:07 pm
  #16745  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
52- not an A300; not a 727/72S; not stopping at ATL also likely says it wasn't a TriStar, as I sure don't remember Eastern's L-1011s going anywhere else from LAX ... so that says we have a 757

the elapsed time rules out a Florida stop; while LGA-North Carolina with that jet isn't beyond the realm of the possible -- Charlotte (CLT), Raleigh/Durham (RDU), Greensboro (GSO) -- I really can't wrap my head around the thought of a midnight 757 to LAX from anywhere other than a major EA city

I have very little confidence in guessing ORD, but I have few other ideas at this point
52. Well, you continue to make progress here as Eastern was indeed operating a B757-200 on this flight....but the stop was not made at ORD nor CLT, RDU or GSO.
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Old Oct 8, 19, 12:52 pm
  #16746  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Hmmmm.....more than one, you say? I will be looking forward to the correct answers!

I can only think of one air carrier that just might have operated scheduled passenger service with the Caravelle into Papeete (PPT): UTA. I seem to recall that UTA operated Caravelle service between Noumea and Sydney and maybe between Noumea and Auckland as well.....so perhaps UTA also operated the Caravelle on a routing of Noumea - Nandi - Papeete.

And the only other Caravelle operator at Papeete I can think of wasn't operating airline service as it might have been the French military.
Two out of three is fine. The other carrier was Air Caledonie https://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-...Super-B/227175 , operating out of Noumea, the French territory to the west, who got a Caravelle (inevitably) as their first jet in 1984, and ran it for some years, to 1990, to Australia, Fiji, and at the end Papeete, shortly before it was replaced by a 737. UTA had, some years earlier, also operated the same route with their Caravelle based at Noumea, broadly doing the same routings on low frequency.

The French "military" operation at Papeete was initially run as a civil operation, by Sogerma, a French aerospace contractor, with civil registrations. Later they were indeed changed over to the military. They were used to support the French nuclear test sites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moruro...eapons_testing in the Pacific atolls. Notably the Noumea-based UTA Caravelle was transferred to them, and spent no less than 29 years, from 1966 to the end of 1994, based in the South Pacific. These aircraft did occasionally get ferried back to Europe for major maintenance, sometimes they chartered substitutes among themselves, a Sogerma one doing the Air Caledonie runs or vice-versa, and sometimes a replacement would be chartered for several months all the way from France - Europe Aero Service from Perpignan being a common stand-in.

Ask around, JL, if there are any old engineers at Papeete who started on the Caravelle there.

Last edited by WHBM; Oct 8, 19 at 6:18 pm
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Old Oct 9, 19, 10:26 am
  #16747  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Two out of three is fine. The other carrier was Air Caledonie https://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-...Super-B/227175 , operating out of Noumea, the French territory to the west, who got a Caravelle (inevitably) as their first jet in 1984, and ran it for some years, to 1990, to Australia, Fiji, and at the end Papeete, shortly before it was replaced by a 737. UTA had, some years earlier, also operated the same route with their Caravelle based at Noumea, broadly doing the same routings on low frequency.

The French "military" operation at Papeete was initially run as a civil operation, by Sogerma, a French aerospace contractor, with civil registrations. Later they were indeed changed over to the military. They were used to support the French nuclear test sites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moruro...eapons_testing in the Pacific atolls. Notably the Noumea-based UTA Caravelle was transferred to them, and spent no less than 29 years, from 1966 to the end of 1994, based in the South Pacific. These aircraft did occasionally get ferried back to Europe for major maintenance, sometimes they chartered substitutes among themselves, a Sogerma one doing the Air Caledonie runs or vice-versa, and sometimes a replacement would be chartered for several months all the way from France - Europe Aero Service from Perpignan being a common stand-in.

Ask around, JL, if there are any old engineers at Papeete who started on the Caravelle there.
I shall certainly do so as we will be in Papeete for a couple of nights before boarding a sailboat and then sailing west toward Raiatea, Bora Bora and Huahine.

And BTW, as some of you know, one of my hobbies is collecting scale model airliners. I've been at it for years now with my small fleet displayed in my office at home on top of three different bookcases. Most of my models are 1/200 scale (which includes not only airliners but also Space Shuttle Discovery along with several military fighter aircraft) along with a smaller collection of 1/400 scale airliners with Space Shuttle Endeavour as well. Well, I've always wanted a Caravelle....and now the good folks at DieCastAirplane in Massachusetts have announced they will be offering a 1/200 scale United Caravelle. So, in the not so distant future, N1019U shall join my little fleet where it will be proudly displayed next to a United Vickers Viscount. And this will most likely be the last addition to my collection as I have simply run out of room in my office to display them!

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/5981775

Last edited by jlemon; Oct 9, 19 at 10:42 am Reason: added photo link
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Old Oct 9, 19, 12:52 pm
  #16748  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post

Please limit your response to two quiz items per day so that all may participate. And as always, we are looking for complete and specific answers here. Thanks!

44. It's 1976 and you are in Chicago. You need to travel to New York City for a meeting and have found an interesting three stop direct flight operated daily with jet equipment from O'Hare to La Guardia. You will depart ORD just before 2:00 pm and arrive into LGA at 6:45 pm. Identify the airline, the three stops in order and the aircraft. It wasn't American or TWA, the aircraft wasn't a BAC One-Eleven, B727-100 or DC-9-10 and stops were not made at IND, DAY, PIT, DTW, ROC or SYR. Please see post # 16758 for a hint. Additional hint: The aircraft type was a twin engine jet.

49. In 1984 this air carrier was operating a direct two stop flight on weekdays from Salt Lake City (SLC) to Reno (RNO) with jet equipment. A snack followed by breakfast was served on this flight. Identify the airline, both stops and the aircraft type. It wasn't United or America West and stops were not made at ELY, EKO, PHX or LAS. The aircraft was a B737-200. Hint: The flight in question first headed to the northwest and then back to the south.

The next eight quiz items all have a time line of 1985.....

50. You've just completed project work in Toronto and have been invited by friends to visit with them at their beachfront residence in Kapalua, Maui. You've found a direct flight from YYZ to OGG which makes two stops en route and operates daily. The flight arrives into Kahului in time for you to join your friends for dinner at the Sea House Restaurant in Napili just down the beach from their home. Name the airline you'll be flying with, both stops and the equipment. Aircraft was a wide body jet.

51. This airline introduced a new front cabin service it called "Preferred Service" featuring "extra-wide, first class, two-by-two leather seating" with 37 inch seat pitch in "the entire front half of every plane". And as a introductory promotion, the air carrier in question offered its passengers "Preferred Service" at no extra charge on a first-come, first-serve basis until June 4 of 1985 when it was officially introduced. A senior executive with the airline made this statement concerning the new front cabin service: "Introducing everything you'd expect from a first class seat. Except the stupid price." Identify the airline as well as its executive who made this statement. It wasn't Midwest Express and Mr. Tim Hoeksema did not make this statement. Hint: The aircraft types were twin engine jets.

52. You are back in New York City and have been working out of an office located close to La Guardia Airport. Following dinner one evening, you are summoned to an urgent meeting in Los Angeles the next morning. There's a flight departing LGA just before 9:30 pm which you should be able to catch in time which will get you into LAX just before 1:30 am with one stop being made en route. Name the air carrier, the stop and the aircraft. It was Eastern operating a B757-200. Still looking for the stop which wasn't ATL, MCI, STL, ORD, CLT, RDU or GSO.

53. Now you are in Miami and need to travel to Atlanta for a dinner meeting. Ah, here's an interesting flight which makes one stop en route and operates daily except on Saturdays. Hmmm......there's no first class available on this flight as the aircaft is in an all-coach configuration. What the heck, you book a seat anyway. Identify the airline, the stop and the equipment. Hint: Aircraft type was a twin engine jet and the stop was made in Florida.

55. You're now on your way direct to San Diego from Tulsa and your flight which operates six days a week will be making two stops en route. What airline are you traveling on, what are the locations of the two stops and what is the equipment? Hint: Aircraft type was a twin engine jet and the second stop was made in California.

56. And once again, it's time to go sailing! Your sailing buddy's catamaran is moored near the Princess Juliana Airport on St. Maarten so you are off to the Caribbean from Los Angeles with two stops being made en route from LAX to SXM. Name the air carrier, both stops and the aircraft type. Hint: Aircraft type was a wide body jet and the second stop was made in the Caribbean.

57. At this time in 1985, this airline was operating flights with DC-9-30 equipment from seven different cities nonstop to LAX. Identify the air carrier and all seven cities. It was PSA with nonstop D9S service from LAS, OAK, SAN, SFO, SJC, RNO and ___. And the last one wasn't PHX, TUS or FAT. Hint: The airport we are looking for was one of the smaller stations served by PSA.

59. This airline was operating direct one stop service from Lihue (LIH) on Kauai to Los Angeles (LAX) on a daily basis at this time. Identify the air carrier, the stop and the equipment. ANSWERED - United operating a Super DC-8-71 LAX - LIH - ITO - LAX.
And slowly but surely making progress here.....

Last edited by jlemon; Oct 16, 19 at 10:10 am Reason: answer updates & corrected departure time from ORD for # 44
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Old Oct 9, 19, 1:43 pm
  #16749  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
44. It's 1976 and you are in Chicago. You need to travel to New York City for a meeting and have found an interesting three stop direct flight operated daily with jet equipment from O'Hare to La Guardia. You will depart ORD just before 4:00 pm and arrive into LGA at 6:45 pm. Identify the airline, the three stops in order and the aircraft.
44- please re-check your source material -- nonstop jet service would have had those approximate block times (relevant page of the UA timetable from June 1976 shows Flight 922 leaving ORD at 5pm and arriving LGA at 8pm)

Last edited by jrl767; Oct 9, 19 at 2:28 pm
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Old Oct 9, 19, 2:27 pm
  #16750  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
57. At this time in 1985, this airline was operating flights with DC-9-30 equipment from seven different cities nonstop to LAX. Identify the air carrier and all seven cities.
57- PSA acquired a number of second- or third-hand D9Ss around this time as they were expanding their network both within and beyond California ... the evening before Thanksgiving of 1985, having booked Burbank-San Francisco-Seattle to avoid the traffic and parking hassles at LAX, I spent about four hours at SFO because the jet that made up the Seattle flight had to finish up its delayed routing LAX-Sacramento (SMF)-San Diego (SAN)-LAX-SFO, ultimately arriving SFO ~2345 and Seattle ~0230 on Thanksgiving morning

I would be confident in guessing the other two Bay Area airports -- San Jose (SJC) and Oakland (OAK) -- are among the seven D9S destinations, and will speculate that the others were Phoenix (PHX) and Las Vegas (LAS)
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Old Oct 9, 19, 2:42 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
44- please re-check your source material -- nonstop jet service would have had those approximate block times (relevant page of the UA timetable from June 1976 shows Flight 922 leaving ORD at 5pm and arriving LGA at 8pm)
44. Thanks for the catch! The flight in question actually departed from Chicago O'Hare just before 2:00 pm CST and arrived into New York La Guardia at 6:45 pm EST after making three stops en route. And I've now rectified this mistake.
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Old Oct 9, 19, 2:51 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
57- PSA acquired a number of second- or third-hand D9Ss around this time as they were expanding their network both within and beyond California ... the evening before Thanksgiving of 1985, having booked Burbank-San Francisco-Seattle to avoid the traffic and parking hassles at LAX, I spent about four hours at SFO because the jet that made up the Seattle flight had to finish up its delayed routing LAX-Sacramento (SMF)-San Diego (SAN)-LAX-SFO, ultimately arriving SFO ~2345 and Seattle ~0230 on Thanksgiving morning

I would be confident in guessing the other two Bay Area airports -- San Jose (SJC) and Oakland (OAK) -- are among the seven D9S destinations, and will speculate that the others were Phoenix (PHX) and Las Vegas (LAS)
57. Pacific Southwest Airlines operating the DC-9-30 into LAX is correct! Now let's take a look at your airport list....

LAS - Yep!
OAK - Yep!
PHX - Nope
SMF - Nope
SAN - Yep!
SFO - Yep!
SJC - Yep!
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Old Oct 9, 19, 5:36 pm
  #16753  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
44. It's 1976 and you are in Chicago. You need to travel to New York City for a meeting and have found an interesting three stop direct flight operated daily with jet equipment from O'Hare to La Guardia. You will depart ORD just before 2:00 pm and arrive into LGA at 6:45 pm. Identify the airline, the three stops in order and the aircraft.
44- in early 1976 I was still in Ithaca NY, and was still spending far too much time perusing OAGs in Olin Library instead of working on my M.Eng. project ... I can think of two small twin-jets, each operated by a different airline, that might have been found on such an itinerary

I'll start with a USAir BAC One-Eleven, stopping at Indianapolis (IND), Dayton (DAY), and Pittsburgh (PIT)

Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
57. Pacific Southwest Airlines operating the DC-9-30 into LAX is correct! Now let's take a look at your airport list....

LAS - Yep!
OAK - Yep!
PHX - Nope
SMF - Nope
SAN - Yep!
SFO - Yep!
SJC - Yep!
57- ok, let's replace PHX with Tucson (TUS) and SMF with Reno (RNO)
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Old Oct 9, 19, 9:20 pm
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51. This airline introduced a new front cabin service it called "Preferred Service" featuring "extra-wide, first class, two-by-two leather seating" with 37 inch seat pitch in "the entire front half of every plane". And as a introductory promotion, the air carrier in question offered its passengers "Preferred Service" at no extra charge on a first-come, first-serve basis until June 4 of 1985 when it was officially introduced. A senior executive with the airline made this statement concerning the new front cabin service: "Introducing everything you'd expect from a first class seat. Except the stupid price." Identify the airline as well as its executive who made this statement.

Midwest Express, CEO Timothy Hoeksema
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Old Oct 10, 19, 9:54 am
  #16755  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
44- in early 1976 I was still in Ithaca NY, and was still spending far too much time perusing OAGs in Olin Library instead of working on my M.Eng. project ... I can think of two small twin-jets, each operated by a different airline, that might have been found on such an itinerary

I'll start with a USAir BAC One-Eleven, stopping at Indianapolis (IND), Dayton (DAY), and Pittsburgh (PIT)

57- ok, let's replace PHX with Tucson (TUS) and SMF with Reno (RNO)
44. I do not believe USAir was around in 1976 as Allegheny Airlines did not change its name until 1979. That being said, the flight in question was not operated with a BAC One-Eleven and stops were not made at Indianapolis, Dayton or Pittsburgh.

57. Reno: Yep! Tucson: Nope
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