Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > TravelBuzz
Reload this Page >

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Oct 5, 19, 12:32 pm
  #16726  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: No longer lowly AA Gold, lots of AA, AS & DL miles & BA Avios, some UA miles, former CO Plat
Posts: 8,059
Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
60- how about a southerly extension of the classic and oft-discussed Northwest milk run across the upper Great Plains, on a 727-251:

ORD
  1. MSP
  2. Billings (BIL)
  3. Bozeman (BZN)
  4. Missoula (MSO)
  5. Spokane (GEG)
  6. Seattle (SEA)
  7. San Francisco (SFO)
PHX
60. An excellent guess! And you are very close here. In fact, you are so close that I will provide the schedule as you only missed one of the stops. All we have to do is replace Bozeman with Great Falls......

NW 105: Chicago O'Hare (ORD) 7:00a - 8:10a Minneapolis/St. Paul (MSP) 8:50a - 9:47a Billings (BIL) 10:15a - 10:57a Great Falls (GTF) 11:17a - 11:53a Missoula (MSO) 12:12p - 11:52a Spokane (GEG) 12:15p - 1:10p Seattle (SEA) 1:50p - 3:39p San Francisco (SFO) 4:25p - 7:10p Phoenix (PHX)
Freq: ORD-MSP daily except Sundays, MSP-PHX daily
Service classes: F/Y
Meal services: Snack ORD-MSP, Breakfast MSP-BIL, Snack GEG-SEA, Snack SEA-SFO, Snack SFO-PHX
Equip: B727-200
jlemon is offline  
Old Oct 5, 19, 6:08 pm
  #16727  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 7,534
42. An excellent guess, sir! Air France was indeed operating flights between London City and Paris Charles de Gaulle back in the fall of 1996.....and these flights were actually operated by Air Inter Europe (IT) on a code sharing basis with five round trip BAe 146 flights on weekdays, some of which offered two class business and coach (C/Y) service with others offering an all-business class cabin.

So we are looking for an independent air carrier that was using its own two letter code on its all-business class service operated twice a day on weekdays in competition with Air France/Air Inter Europe between LCY and CDG at this time.
Was this when Air Jet had a short-lived go at LCY to Paris with one of their convertible BAe146, which also did overnight mail runs in France ?

I realise my previous guess at an Air France Fokker F.28 was wrong, as no Spey-engine aircraft has ever been allowed in there; I was recalling the Air France F.70 that used to come through.
WHBM is offline  
Old Oct 5, 19, 7:27 pm
  #16728  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: No longer lowly AA Gold, lots of AA, AS & DL miles & BA Avios, some UA miles, former CO Plat
Posts: 8,059
Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Was this when Air Jet had a short-lived go at LCY to Paris with one of their convertible BAe146, which also did overnight mail runs in France ?

I realise my previous guess at an Air France Fokker F.28 was wrong, as no Spey-engine aircraft has ever been allowed in there; I was recalling the Air France F.70 that used to come through.
42. - BONUS: Well, I was wondering if the F.28 Fellowship was allowed to operate into London City.....a bit too noisy, perhaps? And I did not know the F.70 was operated into LCY at one point.....

But back to business.....and Air Jet is correct! Here are the scheds.....

BC 207: Paris Charles de Gaulle (CDG) 07:20 - 07:20 London City (LCY)

BC 208: London City (LCY) 07:50 - 09:50 Paris Charles de Gaulle (CDG)

BC 227: Paris Charles de Gaulle (CDG) 17:45 - 17:45 London City (LCY)

BC 228: London City (LCY) 18:20 - 20:20 Paris Charles de Gaulle (CDG)

All flights operated daily except Saturdays and Sundays with BAe 146 equipment in an all C class configuration.
jlemon is offline  
Old Oct 6, 19, 12:53 am
  #16729  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: East Ester, Alaska
Programs: Alaska Airlines Million Miler, United Airlines Million Miler, Wyndham Rewards Diamond Level
Posts: 8,947
Thanks to JL for keeping the flame burning so brightly!

49. In 1984 this air carrier was operating a direct two stop flight on weekdays from Salt Lake City (SLC) to Reno (RNO) with jet equipment. A snack followed by breakfast was served on this flight. Identify the airline, both stops and the aircraft type.

It might be a bit late for this, but I'm guessing that United might've replaced the contracted Frontier 580s from the 70s and possibly run the Salt Lake City -Ely - Elko - Reno (and on to SFO) route with a 737-200. It's worth a shot...


59. This airline was operating direct one stop service from Lihue (LIH) on Kauai to Los Angeles (LAX) on a daily basis at this time. Identify the air carrier, the stop and the equipment.

I remember flying Lihue - Kona - Los Angeles on a United DC-8-71 back in 1985. Let's go with that (I remember Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa were both snow capped that day as well!)


strickerj likes this.
Seat 2A is offline  
Old Oct 6, 19, 2:09 am
  #16730  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 7,534
Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
42. - BONUS: Well, I was wondering if the F.28 Fellowship was allowed to operate into London City.....a bit too noisy, perhaps? And I did not know the F.70 was operated into LCY at one point.....

But back to business.....and Air Jet is correct! Here are the scheds.....

BC 207: Paris Charles de Gaulle (CDG) 07:20 - 07:20 London City (LCY) …
I think Air Jet only lasted a matter of months, it really was uncompetitive having just a small schedule when Air France were also on the route, and the Eurostar train had just opened, so this must be a rare schedule. Note that they used the old Brymon Airways BC code; Brymon, by 1996 owned by British Airways, were the original operators of Dash-7s on this pioneer LCY route - in partnership with Air France.

I recall the Air France F.28 particularly, I used to see it, by chance, on Saturday mornings, departing for Paris with a particularly energetic engine run-up before takeoff when LCY operations were on easterlies. The actual operator was Regional Aviation, but they were in Air France colours and flight numbers. More recently, Austrian (again by a branded commuter operator, Tyrolean) came in for a year or two with the same type, which we always meant to take for a weekend in Vienna but never got round to it before they gave up. Shame. Last year we had a business opportunity there and with several trips (alas from Heathrow) I managed an extended weekend, and found it still as much an elegant and fascinating old middle-Europe city as I recall from student Interrail days, as well as finding a Ukrainian Ilyushin 76 heading from Everett to Dubai at the airport, which I think made it into a thread question here.

If Air Inter were being advertised as an operator into LCY in that year, it was strange, but the sort of thing Air France did by the 1990s, when they owned Air Inter and seemed to use the fleets and the branding quite interchangeably. Eventually they merged the branding all in. Air France (with Inter) must hold the European record for the sheer number of commuter carriers that have carried their livery, but one combination that didn't happen was Air Inter running a BAe146 - those Air France flights in 1996 were provided by Irish-based Cityjet, in AF colours.
WHBM is offline  
Old Oct 6, 19, 8:50 am
  #16731  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: No longer lowly AA Gold, lots of AA, AS & DL miles & BA Avios, some UA miles, former CO Plat
Posts: 8,059
!

Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
49. In 1984 this air carrier was operating a direct two stop flight on weekdays from Salt Lake City (SLC) to Reno (RNO) with jet equipment. A snack followed by breakfast was served on this flight. Identify the airline, both stops and the aircraft type.

It might be a bit late for this, but I'm guessing that United might've replaced the contracted Frontier 580s from the 70s and possibly run the Salt Lake City -Ely - Elko - Reno (and on to SFO) route with a 737-200. It's worth a shot...


59. This airline was operating direct one stop service from Lihue (LIH) on Kauai to Los Angeles (LAX) on a daily basis at this time. Identify the air carrier, the stop and the equipment.

I remember flying Lihue - Kona - Los Angeles on a United DC-8-71 back in 1985. Let's go with that (I remember Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa were both snow capped that day as well!)


49. Well, the equipment was a B737-200. However, the air carrier in question wasn't United nor were stops made at Ely or Elko. And we can also safely say the routing of this flight was a bit circuitous.

59. United operating a Super DC-8-71 is correct! However, this flight did not stop in Kona so please guess again, sir!
jlemon is offline  
Old Oct 6, 19, 9:12 am
  #16732  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: No longer lowly AA Gold, lots of AA, AS & DL miles & BA Avios, some UA miles, former CO Plat
Posts: 8,059
Originally Posted by WHBM View Post

If Air Inter were being advertised as an operator into LCY in that year, it was strange, but the sort of thing Air France did by the 1990s, when they owned Air Inter and seemed to use the fleets and the branding quite interchangeably. Eventually they merged the branding all in. Air France (with Inter) must hold the European record for the sheer number of commuter carriers that have carried their livery, but one combination that didn't happen was Air Inter running a BAe146 - those Air France flights in 1996 were provided by Irish-based Cityjet, in AF colours.
Which once again demonstrates that one should not fully trust the OAG! The Air France / Air Inter Europe CDG - LCY schedules appear in the Oct. 27, 1996 OAG Pocket Flight Guide for Europe, Africa and the Middle East. And it appears the same flights are listed twice for all five AF/IT* services a day from CDG to LCY, each with an AF flight number and then again with an IT* flight number. Here's an example:

AF 860: Paris Charles de Gaulle (CDG) 08:30 - 08:30 London City (LCY)

IT* 8522: Paris Charles de Gaulle (CDG) 08:30 - 08:30 London City (LCY)

Both flights (which I believe is just one flight listed twice) were operated with BAe 146 equipment on a daily except Saturdays and Sundays basis. And note the asterisk next to the IT flight number which usually denotes a code share flight. There's no mention of the IT 8500 series flight numbers in the OAG airline codes reference section although IT* flight number ranges for services operated in conjunction with Air France, Regional Airlines, Air Littoral, Jersey European and Tunis Air are mentioned. Strangely, Cityjet is not mentioned.

Last edited by jlemon; Oct 6, 19 at 3:54 pm Reason: clarification
jlemon is offline  
Old Oct 6, 19, 11:24 am
  #16733  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Back home in the REAL Washington (SEA); still working occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.3MM; AS MVPG 75K
Posts: 13,920
49- America West via Phoenix (PHX) and Las Vegas (LAS) would seem to fit the “circuitous” criterion ...
jrl767 is offline  
Old Oct 6, 19, 11:52 am
  #16734  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: No longer lowly AA Gold, lots of AA, AS & DL miles & BA Avios, some UA miles, former CO Plat
Posts: 8,059
Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
49- America West via Phoenix (PHX) and Las Vegas (LAS) would seem to fit the “circuitous” criterion ...
49. Well, I was waiting for you to mention HP via PHX and LAS....but no! The airline in question wasn't America West and the stops were not made at Phoenix and Las Vegas.
jlemon is offline  
Old Oct 6, 19, 5:38 pm
  #16735  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 7,534
Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
There's no mention of the IT 8500 series flight numbers in the OAG airline codes reference section although IT* flight number ranges for services operated in conjunction with Air France, Regional Airlines, Air Littoral, Jersey European and Tunis Air are mentioned. Strangely, Cityjet is not mentioned.
OAG, and indeed other references, seem unable to cope with codeshares that are two steps removed. In this case IT is on an AF flight, but that in turn is on another carrier. Cityjet have long run several Air France flights from Paris to various European points, and still do - but doesn't seem to get mentioned as such.

Some years ago I booked on an AF flight number, London City to Belfast, which was stated as operated by Cityjet, but they in turn always had it operated on a Do328 of Scot Airways. It was amusing that a rather poor set of Air France-spec catering was provided, whilst the normally better Scot Airways supplies had been hidden away in a rear overhead locker ! The captain in his introduction welcomed us to "Air France in co-operation with KLM". You have to wonder how many carriers does it take to run a service ...
WHBM is offline  
Old Oct 7, 19, 2:51 pm
  #16736  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 7,534
Just back from a Day Return LCY-Edinburgh-LCY on BA, plus a 50 mile each way rental car drive, plus a 2 hour business meeting that lasted 5 hours. I'll look at the outstanding quiz items maybe tomorrow. Zzzzzzzz.
PS It's raining again here in London.
PPS Bought a battery-powered Teddy Bear which plays the bagpipes in Edinburgh airport departures for Little Miss WHBM . Possibly a mistake ...
WHBM is offline  
Old Oct 7, 19, 3:15 pm
  #16737  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: No longer lowly AA Gold, lots of AA, AS & DL miles & BA Avios, some UA miles, former CO Plat
Posts: 8,059
Originally Posted by WHBM View Post

PS It's raining again here in London....

PPS Bought a battery-powered Teddy Bear which plays the bagpipes in Edinburgh airport departures for Little Miss WHBM . Possibly a mistake ...
Our first cold front of the fall season is now approaching the LFT area. Our local National Weather Service (NWS) office had initially forecast scattered thunderstorms and rainshowers associated with the front with no severe weather anticipated. However, that changed today with the front now producing severe thunderstorms with large hail possible along with damaging winds plus the threat of waterspouts over the coastal waters of the Gulf of Mexico - my weather radio has been going crazy this afternoon due to repeated NWS severe weather warnings being broadcast. Right now, it appears the worst of the storms will pass just west of us with no flooding anticipated in the LFT area - we certainly hope so! The pay off will be nice fall weather following the front with much cooler daytime air temps coupled with lower humidity and lower dewpoints.

And as for little Teddy, perhaps a tactical lack of battery issue might be the remedy......

Plus, good news today from a good friend who has GS top elite status with UA as he has now arranged for us to be placed on the list for possible upgrades to the front cabin on a couple of flights concerning our trip from LFT to PPT several weeks from now. Hopefully, the upgrades will clear as it's a lonnnngggg way from south Louisiana to Tahiti......
jlemon is offline  
Old Oct 7, 19, 3:33 pm
  #16738  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 7,534
Bonus question : Name all the (several) Caravelle operators who served Papeete over time.
WHBM is offline  
Old Oct 7, 19, 6:10 pm
  #16739  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Back home in the REAL Washington (SEA); still working occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.3MM; AS MVPG 75K
Posts: 13,920
Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
48. It's 1983 and you have just been awarded a consulting contract in San Diego. Your location is Washington, DC and you have found a direct one stop flight from Dulles (IAD) to Lindbergh Field (SAN). First class is available, of course. What airline will you be flying with, where will you stop and what kind of aircraft will you be traveling on?
48- I'm pretty sure that, during much if not most of the 1980s, American's evening DC-10 flight from IAD to Los Angeles (LAX) continued to SAN ... but I'm also pretty sure that this is far too obvious an option

I'd similarly opine that an AA 727/72S via one of their other hubs (ORD and DFW) is not the jet we are looking for; I was a regular on United (SEA<-->WAS) at this time, and I recall flying the DC-10, D8S, and 72S (and maybe even a 767) via Denver (DEN), but again I doubt that any of those continued to SAN; TWA wasn't at IAD except for the L-1011s that ran LAX/SFO-IAD-Europe

a couple weeks ago we mentioned a Western DC-10 operating JFK-IAD-SLC-LAX-HNL in 1982 ... if I recall correctly, WA had two IAD-SLC flights, which means this could have been a 72S continuing SLC-SAN ... let's go with that for now

Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
52. You are back in New York City and have been working out of an office located close to La Guardia Airport. Following dinner one evening, you are summoned to an urgent meeting in Los Angeles the next morning. There's a flight departing LGA just before 9:30 pm which you should be able to catch in time which will get you into LAX just before 1:30 am with one stop being made en route. Name the air carrier, the stop and the aircraft.
52- the departure and arrival times, combined with the segment lengths, make this an operationally ambitious guess, but I like the idea of an Eastern A300 via Atlanta (ATL)
jrl767 is offline  
Old Oct 7, 19, 7:17 pm
  #16740  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: No longer lowly AA Gold, lots of AA, AS & DL miles & BA Avios, some UA miles, former CO Plat
Posts: 8,059
Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
48- I'm pretty sure that, during much if not most of the 1980s, American's evening DC-10 flight from IAD to Los Angeles (LAX) continued to SAN ... but I'm also pretty sure that this is far too obvious an option

I'd similarly opine that an AA 727/72S via one of their other hubs (ORD and DFW) is not the jet we are looking for; I was a regular on United (SEA<-->WAS) at this time, and I recall flying the DC-10, D8S, and 72S (and maybe even a 767) via Denver (DEN), but again I doubt that any of those continued to SAN; TWA wasn't at IAD except for the L-1011s that ran LAX/SFO-IAD-Europe

a couple weeks ago we mentioned a Western DC-10 operating JFK-IAD-SLC-LAX-HNL in 1982 ... if I recall correctly, WA had two IAD-SLC flights, which means this could have been a 72S continuing SLC-SAN ... let's go with that for now

52- the departure and arrival times, combined with the segment lengths, make this an operationally ambitious guess, but I like the idea of an Eastern A300 via Atlanta (ATL)
48. A very plausible guess....however, it was not Western, the equipment wasn't a B727-200 and the stop was not made in Salt Lake City.

52. You are on the right track here as it was indeed Eastern......but not with an A300 and not via Atlanta.

Please guess again!
jlemon is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: