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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Aug 21, 2012, 11:49 am
  #1606  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
United
Western
Frontier
Hughes Airwest
Texas International

I'm tossing between Eastern and Delta here. 50-50. Let's go with Eastern.
Hey-hey, Seat 2A!

Well, five out of six is pretty darn good!

Here are the air carriers, the aircraft types they operated and the weekday frequencies (most flights operated daily):

United - One (1) B727-100 flight, three (3) B727-200 flights, one (1) B737-200 flight

Western - Two (2) B727-200 flights (one 72S flight operated Daily Ex. Sat.), four (4) B737-200 flights

Frontier - Eight (8) B737-200 flights (two flights operated Daily Ex. Sat.)

Hughes Airwest - Three (3) DC-9-30 flights

Texas International - Five (5) DC-9-10 flights

And last but not certainly least......

Braniff International - One (1) B727-100 flight (operated Daily Ex. Sun.), two (2) B727-200 flights

So in November of 1979, there were thirty (30) jet flights every weekday from SLC to DEN......

Last edited by jlemon; Aug 23, 2012 at 3:47 pm
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 1:00 pm
  #1607  
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Originally Posted by jlemon
Hope you have a great trip, miniliq! And perhaps you can share your itinerary with us!

..

And here's a follow up question: Name six (6) airlines that flew from SLC to DEN in the fall of 1979.

...
Originally Posted by Seat 2A
United
Western
Frontier
Hughes Airwest
Texas International

I'm tossing between Eastern and Delta here. 50-50. Let's go with Eastern.
Let me add a guess...Braniff.

Braniff, with a hub in DFW, did fly non-hub routes, including possibly Kansas City-Denver.
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 2:04 pm
  #1608  
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Originally Posted by Cattle Airlines
Let me add a guess...Braniff.

Braniff, with a hub in DFW, did fly non-hub routes, including possibly Kansas City-Denver.
Correct! See my above post for additional details......

And besides the BN nonstop service between SLC and DEN, you are also correct with regard to Braniff flying MCI-DEN at this time (once a day with a 72S). In addition, BN was flying DFW-DEN (with ten daily roundtrips between Dallas/Ft. Worth and Denver), OKC-DEN, RNO-DEN and COS-DEN with 72S and/or 727 equipment at this time.

Last edited by jlemon; Aug 21, 2012 at 2:24 pm Reason: Additional BN info for DEN
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 5:09 pm
  #1609  
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Originally Posted by Wally Bird
Oh for a time machine !
And some years after Northwest Orient had finally retired the Electra on their milk run route from Chicago O'Hare to Winnipeg, there was this flight in the winter of 1976:

NW 707: FLL-ORD-MSP-YWG. Equipment: DC-10

Fortunately, at this same time, there was this milk run flight operated by another airline that doubtless posed stiff competition to the NW DC-10 service from ORD to YWG, especially where diehard airline enthusiasts were concerned:

NC 571: ORD-MKE-MSN-CWA-RHI-IWD-DLH-YWG. Equipment: Convair 580

Now, the equipment was not quite as sexy as the Electra, to be sure, but at least there was an interesting looking, stylized waterfowl on the tail of the CV580.....and what was his name again?

Last edited by jlemon; Aug 21, 2012 at 5:42 pm Reason: Another interesting milk run
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 11:59 pm
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Originally Posted by jlemon
And some years after Northwest Orient had finally retired the Electra on their milk run route from Chicago O'Hare to Winnipeg, there was this flight in the winter of 1976:

NW 707: FLL-ORD-MSP-YWG. Equipment: DC-10

Fortunately, at this same time, there was this milk run flight operated by another airline that doubtless posed stiff competition to the NW DC-10 service from ORD to YWG, especially where diehard airline enthusiasts were concerned:

NC 571: ORD-MKE-MSN-CWA-RHI-IWD-DLH-YWG. Equipment: Convair 580

Now, the equipment was not quite as sexy as the Electra, to be sure, but at least there was an interesting looking, stylized waterfowl on the tail of the CV580.....and what was his name again?
Aha! Tonywestsider and his time machine were out of the loop on many of the questions due to a lot of work recently. Nevertheless, I enjoy reading the many responses in this thread. To respond to jlemon's question about the waterfowl on the tail of a North Central Airlines CV 580, the name of the waterfowl was Herman The Duck.
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 7:07 am
  #1611  
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Originally Posted by tonywestsider
Aha! Tonywestsider and his time machine were out of the loop on many of the questions due to a lot of work recently. Nevertheless, I enjoy reading the many responses in this thread. To respond to jlemon's question about the waterfowl on the tail of a North Central Airlines CV 580, the name of the waterfowl was Herman The Duck.
Correct, Tony!
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 4:20 am
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It seems some of my questions are too far back or too far away to get much interest, so I’ll try with some US questions from 1980. I visited there that year and got hold of an ABC World Airways Guide to plan things, which I still have, so the questions are driven from there.

1) It’s August 1980 actually, high summer 32 years ago. Starting off in New York, we’re off to LA. Now the traditional suspects on this route would be American, TWA and United. But there are four other airlines now offering nonstops as well. One offers four widebodies a day from JFK. The second and third offer two widebodies a day, one of these airlines goes from JFK and the other from Newark, while bringing up the rear is someone offering a single daily DC8 from JFK. Who are they all ?

2) Looking round for where else a DC8 might still take me, I find I can still take a nonstop from JFK to Miami as well, just one airline offers this. Which one ?

3) Over on the West Coast, LA to Las Vegas (in August ….. hmmm), I could go from either LAX or my old stamping ground of Burbank. Both airports offer me two airlines. Which two from each place ? One of these operations is extremely frequent. How frequent ?

4) OK, too hot for Las Vegas, let’s go up to the Pacific Northwest instead, lots of cool rain up there. Also it’s a couple of months after Mount St Helens blew her top and there may be some good views of that from the air. There are four nonstop carriers on the route from LAX to Seattle. Western and United are the obvious ones, but who else is flying this ?

5) I could also fly LAX to Seattle on two further airlines, but only if I was staying on the plane and headed on elsewhere. Who are these two, and what type of aircraft ?

6) From Seattle we’ll drive to Vancouver BC, which I’ve done many times, and I’ve also fancied the floatplane service (a mini flying boat) but never managed that one yet. However there was regular airline service in 1980, SEA-YVR, six nonstop, one airline did five of them and another just one. Who were they ?

7) Owing to a stupidity I find my companion has driven south to Vancouver WA (suburban Portland OR) instead of up to Canada. We call it a day and get tickets back to LA. The nonstop choices are United and Western, of course, plus another one, who didn’t get mentioned yet. Who was this third operator from Portland to LAX ?

8) On arrival I notice that Los Angeles to Kansas City had a way better service 32 years ago than it does now. Where did the people go ? There were six daily nonstops, three from each of two carriers. Who were the two, one of which was still using a Fine Aircraft on the route ?

9) Well I’m not Dorothy so I don’t want to go to Kansas. Let’s go home to London instead, nonstop from LAX. There are quite a few daily nonstops, and the earliest and the latest are on the same carrier, one with a different style of service. Which one is that ?

Last edited by WHBM; Aug 23, 2012 at 8:59 am Reason: Typo (again !)
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 8:30 am
  #1613  
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Excellent questions from WHBM!

And I'm still waiting for the answer with regard to the British airline that served a destination that was located nearly 700 feet below sea level!

I'll take a stab at the first three questions.....

1) I believe Pan Am was operating nonstop between JFK and LAX at this time, most likely with B747 equipment. And I think Eastern may have been flying JFK-LAX nonstop as well with an L1011 once a day. Over at Newark, World Airways was operating a DC-10 nonstop EWR-LAX with their low fare experiment at this time....and back at JFK, I think the DC-8 operator may have been Capitol Air, perhaps with Super DC-8 series 60 equipment on the JFK-LAX nonstop route.

2) This sure sounds like Braniff International, most likely with DC-8-62 equipment. The JFK-MIA flights operated by BN were part of their services to and from South America at the time.

3) From good old Burbank Airport (an airfield I also know quite well having been born and raised in nearby Pasadena), the two airlines operating BUR-LAS service were Hughes Airwest, operating DC-9-30 equipment, and Pacific Southwest Airlines (PSA), flying B727-200 aircraft. Later on, PSA operated the BAe 146 on the route and I remember my flight on this "Smileliner" from LAS to BUR following a very rigorous hiking adventure I undertook in the Grand Canyon one summer (and I won't repeat that mistake of attempting to hike out of such a big ditch in the high desert when air temps are over 100 degrees F).

And then there was the high frequency LAX-LAS service operated by Western Airlines. I think WA was flying around sixteen (16) or so roundtrips a day on the route, primarily with B737-200 equipment at this time. The other carrier flying LAX-LAS was PSA, again with B727-200 aircraft.

Other carriers around this same time period (late 70's and early 80's) that served LAX-LAS included American, TWA and United but they operated very few flights. And in August of 1980, they may have not provided service on this route at all.

Last edited by jlemon; Aug 23, 2012 at 9:54 am Reason: Decided to answer question 3) as well....
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 11:36 am
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Originally Posted by jlemon
And I'm still waiting for the answer with regard to the British airline that served a destination that was located nearly 700 feet below sea level!
Well, the airline was Imperial Airways, our grand pre-war world-spanning airline, and the low destination was Tiberias, on the shores of the Sea of Galilee, which was the Palestine stop for the Empire Flying Boats to India and Australia during 1937-39. Passengers from London to Jerusalem got off here and were taken back up the mountain by car. It's 800 feet below sea level, not as far down as the Dead Sea, but getting there. The increased air density was enough that on takeoff the engine boost was not needed.

1) I believe Pan Am was operating nonstop between JFK and LAX at this time, most likely with B747 equipment. And I think Eastern may have been flying JFK-LAX nonstop as well with an L1011 once a day. Over at Newark, World Airways was operating a DC-10 nonstop EWR-LAX with their low fare experiment at this time....and back at JFK, I think the DC-8 operator may have been Capitol Air, perhaps with Super DC-8 series 60 equipment on the JFK-LAX nonstop route.
Pretty much there, but Eastern were the ones with four Tristars a day from JFK to LAX. They must have lost a great deal, it didn't last for long with them. Even the 6.00 pm departure from JFK allowed Night Coach fares ! And yes, that was Capitol, bringing up the tail with their lone DC8, charter configuration, no first class.

2) This sure sounds like Braniff International, most likely with DC-8-62 equipment. The JFK-MIA flights operated by BN were part of their services to and from South America at the time.
Indeed. Everyone else's DC8s have gone from the route by this time but Braniff's flights heading for Latin America continue.

3) From good old Burbank Airport (an airfield I also know quite well having been born and raised in nearby Pasadena), the two airlines operating BUR-LAS service were Hughes Airwest, operating DC-9-30 equipment, and Pacific Southwest Airlines (PSA), flying B727-200 aircraft. Later on, PSA operated the BAe 146 on the route and I remember my flight on this "Smileliner" from LAS to BUR following a very rigorous hiking adventure I undertook in the Grand Canyon one summer (and I won't repeat that mistake of attempting to hike out of such a big ditch in the high desert when air temps are over 100 degrees F).

And then there was the high frequency LAX-LAS service operated by Western Airlines. I think WA was flying around sixteen (16) or so roundtrips a day on the route, primarily with B737-200 equipment at this time. The other carrier flying LAX-LAS was PSA, again with B727-200 aircraft.

Other carriers around this same time period (late 70's and early 80's) that served LAX-LAS included American, TWA and United but they operated very few flights. And in August of 1980, they may have not provided service on this route at all.[/QUOTE]
All spot on. Indeed. It's surprising nobody else was doing the Vegas route at that time, as I recall different operators came and went quite rapidly (LAX to Reno was the same). PSA themselves were quite recent. The regular hourly operation by Western is strange for a leisure-oriented route, that's normally a marketing advantage on business-heavy routes with everyone chopping and changing their arrangements.

Incidentally, it was on this 1980 August trip that we went to an open air theater about two-three miles due south of Burbank (jlemon - any ideas where ?) one pleasantly warm evening. Well BUR just happened to be using runway 15 that evening so departures, mainly PSA 727s in those days, were periodically coming up straight over us all. There was a preliminary announcement that "because the airplanes are coming over this evening the actors will freeze until it's passed". This was great fun. We were sat high up, facing north, so saw the lights rising in the sky beyond the backing trees before the actors did, then the noise started, the actors exchanged surreptitious glances for when they should stop, and then everything stopped. Pass over, more glances, and on we go. I still remember those 727s. Shame I haven't got a single recollection of what the performance was !
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 12:18 pm
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Hmmmmmm....an open air theater not too far from BUR.......

The Hollywood Bowl, of course......and I would have been watching the departing aircraft as well, especially those with the broad smile beneath the nose!

Burbank Airport also apparently received some interesting visitors in the wee hours now and then back in the day in the form of USAF C-5 "Galaxy" transports. These behemoths would reportedly land at BUR in the middle of the night. Legend has it that Lockheed would then load brand-new F-117A stealth jets that had been manufactured at their "Skunk Works" aircraft design facility and plant on the airfield (which no longer exists) onto the C-5 aircraft under the cover of darkness. I'm not sure if this is true with regard to the F-117A but it definitely makes for an interesting story! And Lockheed did indeed have their "Skunk Works" located at BUR until the late 1980's when it then moved to Palmdale in the high desert located north of Los Angeles.

Last edited by jlemon; Aug 23, 2012 at 2:46 pm Reason: Skunk Works at BUR
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 1:03 pm
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Originally Posted by WHBM
6) From Seattle well drive to Vancouver BC, which Ive done many times, and Ive also fancied the floatplane service (a mini flying boat) but never managed that one yet. However there was regular airline service in 1980, SEA-YVR, six nonstop, one airline did five of them and another just one. Who were they ?
United and PWA.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 2:29 pm
  #1617  
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Originally Posted by Wally Bird
United and PWA.
6) I'll second Wally's response with regard to SEA-YVR service operated by United and Pacific Western. I'll also guess that UA flew five flights, most likely with 72S equipment (although there may have actually been a D8S or even a DC-10 in the mix but I'm not sure about this), and that PWA flew one flight with a 73S.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 3:37 pm
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Originally Posted by jlemon
6) I'll second Wally's response with regard to SEA-YVR service operated by United and Pacific Western. I'll also guess that UA flew five flights, most likely with 72S equipment (although there may have actually been a D8S or even a DC-10 in the mix but I'm not sure about this), and that PWA flew one flight with a 73S.
Surprisingly, it's the other way round. PWA dominated with five nonstops, plus two flights routed through Victoria, while United has just one daily 727. I can recall our family doing JFK-SEA-YVR just six years earlier on a United DC8-61, and United used to have several roundtrips on the route, which would continue south or east of Seattle, but by 1980 they were pretty much left behind by little PWA.
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 3:08 am
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Originally Posted by jlemon
Hmmmmmm....an open air theater not too far from BUR.......

The Hollywood Bowl, of course....
Ah, nowhere as grand as the HB (never been there), it was somewhere around Burbank or Victory Bvds. A secondary little theater.

It was years later, on another Burbank runway 15 departure, that I got my first ride in a Convair 580, the one I mentioned months ago at the start of this thread, Sierra Pacific operating for American Eagle. The turboprops put in that aircraft had given it a great amount of power, so I'm sure we were way up high by the time we passed over the same point. Always fun when you're in an aircraft that does a climb like that - a classic was the last Dan-Air Comet 4 flight, the last Comet 4 commercial flight EVER, an enthusiasts round trip charter (well done Dan-Air) that took off from London Gatwick and was said to have got to 2,000 feet by the time it passed the end of the runway !

Last edited by WHBM; Aug 24, 2012 at 3:16 am
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 7:13 am
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Ah, nowhere as grand as the HB (never been there), it was somewhere around Burbank or Victory Bvds. A secondary little theater.

It was years later, on another Burbank runway 15 departure, that I got my first ride in a Convair 580, the one I mentioned months ago at the start of this thread, Sierra Pacific operating for American Eagle. The turboprops put in that aircraft had given it a great amount of power, so I'm sure we were way up high by the time we passed over the same point. Always fun when you're in an aircraft that does a climb like that - a classic was the last Dan-Air Comet 4 flight, the last Comet 4 commercial flight EVER, an enthusiasts round trip charter (well done Dan-Air) that took off from London Gatwick and was said to have got to 2,000 feet by the time it passed the end of the runway !
Pacific Express would execute the same type of climb with the BAC One-Eleven on departure from Santa Barbara (SBA) as this twinjet was not very quiet on takeoff. After the initial steep climb, the One-Eleven would level off and throttle back the engines a bit, all in the interest of noise abatement.

Takeoffs from Orange County (SNA) were interesting as well. I remember an Alaska Air B737-400 Capt. explaining to us how the noise abatement departure would be accomplished and that the engines would be dramatically throttled back very quickly after we were airborne in order to minimize the noise footprint over Newport Beach......"and this has all been approved by the FAA, folks"......
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