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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Jun 4, 19, 2:26 pm
  #15661  
 
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I take it this particular converted DC-3 did not show up to take part in the festivities...

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Pola...kAXXiBkPjowtkO

BTW, I remember seeing this airplane up close when I had an office located at SBA back in the day.

And here are a couple of quick quiz questions:

1. What type of engines powered this converted DC-3? ANSWERED

2. The original Conroy DC-3 conversion used engines that were different from the powerplants found on the above pictured aircraft. These engines were taken from a civil airliner. Identify these engine types as well as the aircraft type they were taken from and also the airline which operated this "donor" aircraft in scheduled service. ANSWERED

Last edited by jlemon; Jun 11, 19 at 12:08 pm Reason: added a couple quiz of questions
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Old Jun 4, 19, 2:46 pm
  #15662  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
I take it this particular converted DC-3 did not show up to take part in the festivities...

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Pola...kAXXiBkPjowtkO

I remember seeing this airplane up close when I had an office located at SBA back in the day.
I remember seeing that at the Farnborough air show back in 1978. (I must be an Old Timer after all).
N23SA was last reported withdrawn from use at the Basler facility at Oshkosh, WI back in 2016.

KT
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Old Jun 4, 19, 4:39 pm
  #15663  
 
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These are the DC-3s that are here

https://www.daksovernormandy.com/aircraft

It's a shame there aren't more from the UK. About 10 years ago some new European regulations cleared most of them out, when an operator Air Atlantique had a fleet of about 8, used on various tasks. However, I note their chief pilot of those times, Andrew Dixon, is the overall co-ordinator of the flying aspects of the event.

Last edited by WHBM; Jun 4, 19 at 5:04 pm
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Old Jun 5, 19, 3:18 am
  #15664  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Ah, not to belabor the point, but I believe there are lots of folks out there who would disagree.

I also think Continental had two "golden ages": the time when Bob Six ran the airline and later when Gordon Bethune and his team turned CO around. I had the good fortune to fly with the airline during both of these time periods. Continental was a wonderful airline and it was a sad day for me when the merger with UA was announced.
You know, it's a wee bit sad to me... As we all know Continental as run under Bob Six (and Audrey Meadows) epitomized class, but even United - despite its recent bad press - had a period where it was as good as any domestic airline ever operating. Just my two cents here but I think United was always fairly good back in the 60s and 70s - maybe not in the strata of CO and TW but a good solid product. In the mid-80s however, when I was a 50 State Marathoner, United was as good as any airline in the country - not only by 1985 standards but by ANY standards. Awesome product and service!

You're all welcome to disagree of course, but I do believe that during the late 1960s and 1970s our U.S. airlines offered the finest domestic service in the world - service that on occasion rivaled international airlines for overall quality. Coach lounges, printed menus in both classes, awesome First Class service (and I do mean AWESOME) on trans and mid-cons - we had it made here in the United States of America. I count my lucky stars that I was able to log a couple thousand flights during that time - many of them in First Class.

Here's a First Class menu from one of my flights between Denver and New York aboard a TWA 707 back in January 1972. Just click HERE
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Old Jun 5, 19, 1:08 pm
  #15665  
 
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It was spectacular

You can either look at a professional video of it


Or see one of my shots. Well done all.
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Last edited by WHBM; Jun 5, 19 at 1:23 pm
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Old Jun 5, 19, 8:58 pm
  #15666  
 
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If they only had drones then, the Germans would have seen the invasion force in port on June 4th.
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Old Jun 8, 19, 9:29 am
  #15667  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
These are the DC-3s that are here

https://www.daksovernormandy.com/aircraft

It's a shame there aren't more from the UK. About 10 years ago some new European regulations cleared most of them out, when an operator Air Atlantique had a fleet of about 8, used on various tasks. However, I note their chief pilot of those times, Andrew Dixon, is the overall co-ordinator of the flying aspects of the event.
Thanks for the coverage WHBM -- what a great event.
It also made me dig through my files to reminisce about DC-3 flights I had experienced: the first one in 1965 in Libya -- LAVCO (Libyan Aviation Company) from Marsa Brega (LMQ) to Benghazi (BEN); the second in 1968 when my wife and I flew on Gibair (Gibraltar Airlines -- I'm sure you are familiar with its roots in England) from GIB to Tangier, Morocco (TNG) for a short visit during a Christmas holiday in southern Spain after a week's work in Bordeaux; then several company charter trips for my wife and me in Indonesia in 1969 between Jakarta (JKT) and Palembang (PLM), where I had a one-month assignment. I also thought I had flown DC-3s in East Texas in 1966 (especially HOU-LFT) on TTA, but can't find any equipment designation in my (poor) early records. JLemon can probably tell us whether TTA had DC-3 service those days. Never got to experience the DC-3 float planes though. My poor early records also don't contain details about the Beavers and Otters that were used in remote Middle East Areas, but I do have a few photos to trigger those memories. Keep up the discussions!
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Old Jun 8, 19, 11:36 am
  #15668  
 
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Originally Posted by miniliq View Post
Thanks for the coverage WHBM -- what a great event.....

I also thought I had flown DC-3s in East Texas in 1966 (especially HOU-LFT) on TTA, but can't find any equipment designation in my (poor) early records. JLemon can probably tell us whether TTA had DC-3 service those days...
I'll second that remark made by miniliq concerning the contributions made by WHBM with regard to the aviation events associated with the 75th anniversary of D-Day....and it was great to see the DC-3 fly-by over Normandy in addition to more modern airplanes to include the "missing man" formation flown by USAF F-15 fighter aircraft.

And Trans-Texas Airways (TTa) was indeed operating scheduled DC-3 service during the summer of 1966. From Houston Hobby Airport, one could board a TTa DC-3 and fly nonstop to such exotic destinations as Galveston, Fort Polk, Lake Charles, Lufkin, San Antonio and Victoria in Texas and Louisiana. TTa was also operating direct DC-3 service with no change of plane at this time from HOU to Alexandria, LA, Beaumont/Port Arthur, TX (via GLS), Dallas Love Field, El Dorado, AR, Jackson, MS, Jonesboro, AR, Little Rock, Longview, TX, Memphis, Midland/Odessa, Monroe, LA, Tyler, TX and San Angelo, TX.

Besides the DC-3, TTa was operating new DC9-10 aircraft in addition to Convair 240 and Convair 600 airplanes in the summer of 1966.

Now it's time to mow the lawn as our backyard appears to have dried out enough to permit this. This past Thursday on the anniversary of D-Day, we experienced the worst flooding here in Lafayette since the epic flood event of August 2016 when our home flooded. This time we were luckier: although our large backyard was completely inundated, the torrential tropical downpour ceased and the flood waters then stopped rising and began to subside. And had the flood crest been about one foot higher, our home would have flooded once again.

Folks, I think it's time for Lady K and yours truly to move......
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Old Jun 8, 19, 2:22 pm
  #15669  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Pola...kAXXiBkPjowtkO

BTW, I remember seeing this airplane up close when I had an office located at SBA back in the day.

And here are a couple of quick quiz questions:

1. What type of engines powered this converted DC-3?

2. The original Conroy DC-3 conversion used engines that were different from the powerplants found on the above pictured aircraft. These engines were taken from a civil airliner. Identify these engine types as well as the aircraft type they were taken from and also the airline which operated this "donor" aircraft in scheduled service.
Last call for the two above! Should there be no takers, I shall then provide the answers as well as commentary tomorrow evening.
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Old Jun 8, 19, 8:26 pm
  #15670  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Last call for the two above! Should there be no takers, I shall then provide the answers as well as commentary tomorrow evening.
Sorry, I don't know the answer. A silly answer would be "answer: a DC-3 engine!"
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Old Jun 9, 19, 1:09 am
  #15671  
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iirc the original Conroy “Tri-Turbo-Three” sported Pratt & Whitney PT-6A turboprops, but I know absolutely nothing about a “donor aircraft”
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Old Jun 9, 19, 12:38 pm
  #15672  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
iirc the original Conroy “Tri-Turbo-Three” sported Pratt & Whitney PT-6A turboprops, but I know absolutely nothing about a “donor aircraft”

1. Correct! Specifically three Pratt & Whitney PT6A-45 turboprop engines driving five-bladed Hartzell props. The aircraft was created by John "Jack" Conroy who also ran Santa Barbara-based Aero Spacelines which operated several models of the "Guppy" outsized cargo aircraft one of which I believe is still operated by NASA. During World War II, Mr. Conroy flew B-17 bombers from England on numerous missions over Germany and later flew F-86 fighters for the California Air National Guard. The "Tri-Turbo-Three" DC-3 propjet conversion reportedly had excellent STOL performance. It was operated in both the Arctic and the Antarctic on various types of missions and was also reportedly used to support at least one clandestine military special forces-type of mission.

2. It is my understanding the Conroy "Tri-Turbo-Three" DC-3 began life as a twin engine conversion and was later modified to a three engine configuration. And here's a hint: both engines came from a "donor" aircraft which had previously been operated by a major U.S. air carrier. This airframe was transported to the Santa Barbara Airport where two of its engines were then installed on the DC-3. So please guess again! ANSWERED

Bonus quiz question.....

3.
What aircraft type was used to create the "Conroy Skymonster"? ANSWERED

Last edited by jlemon; Jun 11, 19 at 12:09 pm Reason: answered update
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Old Jun 10, 19, 4:50 am
  #15673  
 
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The DC3 D-Day events at their point of departure, Duxford were great. In the end 23 aircraft made the departure, sadly two were left behind, one had blown an engine the day before (but at least they are somewhere with skills and tools for the job). Spitfires went with them as "top cover".

The morning was enlivened by a surprise USAF formation of 5 Hercules and 7 Ospreys coming over. I don't know if they went to France as well, or just came to Duxford.

The five-stripe black-and-white "Invasion Stripes" were an absolute on-the-day D-Day addition to every aircraft. It was identified that being shot by friendly fire was a key problem, so all bases were shipped the paint. The instruction to apply this way, and to gunners to tell them, was sent just hours before, and although nowadays the paint is of course applied very professionally, at that time it was put on very quickly in the middle of the night.

In my usual Duxford position of down at the east end of the field there were R-1830s in profusion turning all around, especially as they lined up to set off. Nine of the 23 took jumpers, who were all US Army personnel who had come over from the States specially for the occasion, including at least one young lady, who probably had the least make-up of any - they had obviously had great fun with the warpaint, facial camoflage, and leaves stuck on their helmets. The DC3 does not have an inflight door, so all the jumpships had the door taken right off.

There was a nice chance in the morning to get onto the ramp and go and finger all the old girls.
The UK Army Red Devils display team also departed, not by DC3, but were taking a couple of 95 year olds for a tandem jump – their last jump having been you can imagine when !









The weather held – just. We ran into a big rainstorm driving back to London after the departure, which hopefully they missed. Today is being touted on the weather forecasts as likely the wettest day of the year …

I suppose we are gong to want some questions. So …

DC3 Q1. There were aircraft with engines from three different manufacturers. Who were they (these are original engines with the aircraft, not later refits).


DC3 Q2. How many different onetime-scheduled airlines were represented on the DC3 liveries here in the display.
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Last edited by WHBM; Jun 10, 19 at 5:07 am
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Old Jun 10, 19, 8:02 am
  #15674  
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as usual, WHBM graces us with terrific photos and stories!

Q1- Wright and (of course) Pratt & Whitney were the two major U.S. suppliers of radial engines, with the Cyclone and Twin Wasp respectively

I know that several hundred DC-3s were built under license in Japan, and several thousand in Russia; I’d therefore be surprised if the third (and likely a fourth) engine manufacturer wasn’t also in one of those countries, but I can’t come up with a specific name (or names) at the moment
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Old Jun 10, 19, 8:42 am
  #15675  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
Q1- Wright and (of course) Pratt & Whitney were the two major U.S. suppliers of radial engines, with the Cyclone and Twin Wasp respectively
There were 21 P&W and one Wright engined aircraft in the formation - and one other.

There's a clue in the photographs ...
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