I tend to agree with most of your thoughts, but this one I question. At least with Delta, I think that most kettles are catching on to the fact that that there is a good chance that they won't have to pay a fee if they take their rollaboard to the gate. In the last 6 month I can't remember being on one flight (other than on barbie jets) where they haven't announced that they will check the bags for free before boarding at the gate. Early this week in Chicago, I counted 20 people who immediately jumped up and ran to the podium when they made the announcement.

Again, the European low-costs seem to be able to handle that fine. Have a sizer at the gate. If it looks too big, try it in the gauge. If it fits, it can be carried on or gate-checked if the bins are going to be full. If it doesn't, either you are denied boarding or you pay a punitive baggage fee to check it, I think it's around gbp40 on easyJet.

This is no different from the "honour system" on most European city metro systems, and it means people tend to manage the situation themselves. If it's gbp20 to check it before security and gbp40 to check it afterwards, and you know you won't get away with it, you won't bring an oversized bag or you'll check it in the first place.

No need for a secondary gate or similar, it can be done at boarding very quickly. If it doesn't fit, you stand aside until boarding is complete so formalities can be concluded and money taken, or you can be offloaded. (There's another incentive - if your bag's too big, you get a middle seat near the back somewhere as a result of this.)

I don't see why the US airlines need to be nice about it. Strictly one bag, 56x45x25 on Airbus, 55x40x20 on Boeing (smaller bins - hence the difference between easyJet and Ryanair's sizes), any weight, size strictly enforced.

Neil

Once again, the focus on "kettles" carrying non-conforming bags. This is not the major problem! I will say once again, even if every person on a flight carried a conforming bag, there still wouldn't be enough overhead space for everyone. As long as there isn't enough space for everyone to carry a single conforming bag, there will be a gate-lice problem as people jockey for precious overhead space.

Not so sure the problem with oversized/overlimit bags on the planes has to do with Kettles as much as it has to do with some frequent travelers who may have the attitude of "I'm more important than you, my **** doesn't stink and therefore I'll do what I please"

On a typical easyJet flight, either there's room for everyone's bags (give or take a few small ones under the seat), or there's room for all but about the last 3-4. That's not bad. It does rely on not *everyone* bringing a 56x45x25cm IATA-size hard-sided rollaboard, but not everyone *does*.

I think moving to a "strictly one bag" approach would significantly reduce the problem for US airlines. People get used to it - e.g. a lot of rollaboards now have a laptop pocket at the front, so no need for a separate laptop bag.

Neil

To which the GA's response should be simply "It is bigger than the required size, or you have two bags. That'll be £40 please to put it in the hold, or you will be denied boarding and forfeit your fare". Because that is *exactly* what happens on the European low-costs, and it *works*.

Neil

So you want US legacy airlines to behave like RyanAir?

As long as the incompetent baggage mishandlers / luggage throwers abuse and lose checked baggage as often as they do, carry-ons are the only way we can be sure we arrive with our luggage in an undamaged condition.

If you have ever watched the lines at the RyanAir luggage sizers, you would see the large number of people forced to pay extortionate fees to check carry-ons that fail to fit by minute amounts. Personally, I do not want to see this type of Ryan thuggery inflicted by other airlines on their passengers. I have never had that misfortune myself but I have seen plenty of others in that situation.

Those who trust the checked-baggage system might find this article interesting.

http://npaper-wehaa.com/nypress/2011...27&output=html

I agree with you; see my post + link directly above. But people should pack lightly and use bin space fairly. When some tiny, self-entitled woman in a bespoke business suit drags into the cabin an enormous rollaboard she herself could fit in, plus a groaning computer briefcase, a gigantic "utility purse," other stuff bungee-corded to her rollaboard, and assorted accessories... and throws it all in an overhead bin (with the assistance of other passengers, as she herself can't possibly lift it) sideways, so she takes up six seats' worth of bin space... that should be disallowed, absolutely. Not trusting the baggage handlers and TSA does not license a passenger to act like a pig.

I think that you missed my point.. I wasn't talking about over-sized luggage. I was talking about most Kettles catching on and bringing their luggage that in the past they would have checked, they now bring it to the gate. I think it's because they have realized that they can avoid the fee of checking luggage by taking it to the gate. I would guess that most of the people who I saw racing at the podium to check their luggage had bags which would have fit into the size check box. I can remember before the airlines started charging for checked luggage quite a few smaller pieces of luggage coming out on the belt.

And as I replied earlier I'm am not suggesting to anyone that they check their valuables. You have to be a total %#$@ moron to check cash (or are trying to avoid some export controls and or duties, in which case it's not my concern that it didn't work). As for the gentleman whose expensive camera got stolen, if it's that big that it won't fit in an acceptable sized carry on then again buy it a ticket or better yet Fedex it. Fedex will insure it for whatever and will allow you to lock the case. I also do this on an almost weekly basis. And telling me, your fellow passenger, that you have to use the overhead space I put my bag in or the space under the seat in front of me because what you are carrying is very valuable or delicate or you are a VIP will get an immediate response of "NOT MY PROBLEM"

Remember If you have to gate check a bag you can put a lock on it that is non TSA complient. It's already gone through security.

Unless the airlines see this issue as revenue affecting they are not going to doing anything about it. And no matter what the passenger says about their reasons for insisting that they be allowed to carry on whatever they were able to get past security, every airline is going to retain the right to tell you that your bag must be gate checked, and I'm very happy they do.

I'm not sure I did. You *cannot* avoid such charges on European low-costs - there is a hefty penalty fee for having to gate-check, unless there isn't any bin space in which case they will approach a few people and ask them to gate-check. But why voluntarily gate-check when you can just carry on a legal-sized bag, unless there's no room?

Neil

Or the first thing that came to my mind here.. which is to make the allowable carryon size smaller. I agree with your logic that there may be situations where if each passenger carries on what they are allowed to... then it won't possibly fit.

And easyJet, a rather better airline than the Irish mob.

And for everyone to be able to do this, the size and number of carry-ons needs to be limited. Ryanair does not suffer the problem to a significant extent because they enforce the rules.

So you accept people taking oversized carry-ons and filling the bins, then? It has to be one or the other, and the third option of it being GA's discretion just causes arguments. Ryanair's rules are not secret, nor are its fees. They are easy to avoid by reading the information on your boarding card and sticking rigidly to it, and not assuming "you'll get away with it", because you won't.

If you want everyone's luggage (bar one or two) to fit in the bins on a narrowbody, and to keep the seat in front of you largely empty, you need to limit the size (55x40x20cm on Boeing, 56x45x25 on Airbus) and the number to strictly 1. Fly a European low-cost and see. It works.

Neil

Airlines work on averages not maximums. They calculate the passenger weight by assuming in the summer, an adult male will weigh this much. If you happened to get a flight coming back from a sumo wrestling competition, that average of 200 lbs would not really be valid and some people might not be able to fly.

It's the same thing with carry ons. They know not everybody will bring a bag exactly the size of the sizer, that some people, believe it or not, won't even need any overhead space. When you have planes with nine or ten seats across, and only four bin spaces available above that seat, it's pretty apparent that if everybody brought a full size carry on there would be no where near enough space.

The airlines aren't going to remove seats nor will they put in a third aisle, so it is the way it is.