How to 'travel' in F, F etiquette
 

Just booked my first huge, international award in C/F through CO YYZ-DPS with stopover in BKK all on AC and TG.
my only other major F experience was on recent trip on UA to hawaii
Lots of stuff that looks exciting also leads to confusion:

What is the deal with turndown service? do all airlines offer this in Y? what about in C? do you go to the bathroom and expect them to have turned your seat into a bed? do you stand there while they are doing this?

amenity kits....do you guys keep this thing or is it just stuff to use while you are onboard?

pre-departure bevs......if they only offer water or juice, do you make requests? ask for the bubbly or the booze if you know they are going to have it after takeoff but you'd like a little to loosen you up for takeoff?

lounges....from what i read on staralliance webpage, I should be welcome at just any of the star lounges and any of the partners lounges? even the SQ or LH lounges if i hear that they are better?

If i friends in the back of the plane, mid-flight maybe after meal or something (assuming there is a companion ottoman chair or something or I have one of those suites) can you envite your Y friend to sit and converse and have a drink with you? or is this a rare exception to the rules (i read it in one of the TRs)?

Could you post your actual routing with airlines and classes? Neither CO or AC have an int'l first product. They call them business/executive first but these are int'l business products. Thai does have F but not all routes (not TPAC AFAIK).

YYZ-CDG in AC in biz
CDG-BKK in TG in F
BKK-DPS on TG in F on the 744

DPS-BKK on TG in F
BKK-PVG on TG in biz for the wife and me in Y unless i find space opens up
PVG-YYZ on AC in Biz , i think its a 777 seat guru called it executivefirst or something like that (cant remember)

I normally go to the bathroom while they do this. If I'm having a sleep I tend to brush my teeth beforehand ... sometimes the FA is chatty and it's fine to hang around ... sometimes it just feels a bit awkward!

Amenity kits are definitely things to keep. Slippers and pyjamas are also acceptable to keep though I can't imagine many people want more than one or two pairs in their drawers at home.

I think you can use their star alliance gold/business lounges but often their first class lounges are reserved for people travelling with them (certainly the case with LH first class terminal etc).

It's a controversial one and is likely to evoke the most passionate response from others on this board. Generally I think people frown upon it but I guess the real arbiter is the FA ... if they're happy then go ahead.

Enjoy the flight!

No, you should not have your friends visit you in F. That cabin is for those with F tickets, and having others standing around in the aisle can annoy the pax seating near them. Same for going back into coach for that matter.

If they do not hold F tickets, it devalues the F ticket of others to have free loaders hanging around in the F cabin. The extra room and quiet of F compared to coach is for F ticket holders. People from the coach and biz cabins are not supposed to come up and sample it/hang around just because one of their buddies has an F seat.

About 5 years ago I was flying domestic F which not nearly as plush as intl' on a USairways flight and a gent from coach got seated up there because his seat was broken. He was what the british might describe as a "Lager lout" and the americans would describe as "trailer trash". WWF shirt, large girth, drunk as a skunk. We were not in the air 30 minutes before this guy's 3 other drunken buddies crashed the cabin to see him and he was drunkenly bragging about it to them so we could all hear. They even whipped out a camera and began taking pics of him, then they each sat in the seat and had their pic taken, all the while making wise cracks about "livin' the high life" and "don't be thinkin you're better than us!" and "Order some whiskeys and bring em back to us" etc. Oddly (although it was USAirways) it took the FA at least 5 minutes to even respond to this crap and kick them back to their own seats...and they still came back up once or twice. The FA cut the guy off the drinks (he was brining them back to his friends) he got nasty about it.

I am not saying your companions are like this! That was an extreme case, but the principle remains the same. Like sharing food in a restraunt to save a few bucks or taking a doggie bag from a buffet, it's kind of trashy to split your F service with your companions.

Seems a bit harsh to say that an F passenger shouldn't be allowed to have their spouse come up and talk for a bit, at least not an automatic blanket rule. If there were space on the flight, he'd be up there talking with her, just the same. He indicated not using the aisle ("assuming there is a companion ottoman chair or something or I have one of those suites"). It's not really a case of "hey come check out all this fancy first class stuff!", because he'd have his own F ticket if there was space in the cabin on the particular flight.

Actually, that leg is "only" business class according to his 2nd post. Less likely to have an ottoman or suite perhaps.

The OP and 2nd post make me wonder about my future goal of flying RTW in real F. I looked at one RTW route finder gizmo and found it hard to route all or even most of my desired destinations in F. I suppose when the time comes I can easily find help here though.

They must have missed their WN flight! ;)

SQ Lounges
 

I don't think that you can use the specific SQ lounges while not on an SQ flight unless they happen to be sharing lounges. In general you can use the Star Alliance lounges though.

As to inviting your friend from another area of the plane to join you in First for a while, I'd be entirely guided by the circumstances (e.g. I have been in First when there have been two passengers in a space that can sit twelve or sixteen) and, most importantly, by what the flight attendant says, rather than by any blanket rule.

Harsh ? Definately NOT. And yes, there is a rule to ban Y and C pax to come up to F. If the FA didn't enforce this rule, it is only because the FA is lazy. Even UA FA would make an annuncement that pax should only stay in their own ticketed cabin.

F pax can go to C and Y to talk to your companion but not vice versa. Asian carriers would definately enforce this rule no matter what, and NH for an example, would even put a sign at the curtain that separate each cabin about pax should not go pass their ticketed cabin.

Space or not in F is irrelevant, as most time on long haul F it is always empty, but it doesn't mean anyone from Y or C are invited to go there to talk with someone you know.

Even when F pax go to C and Y is not suggested, as I have been with many F long haul flights on Asian carriers, I decided to talk a walk, and the FA serve in F even go to look for me. I know they want to tell me I should not go to other cabins, however, they know since I am in the premium cabin, they worry it would upset me, and I just tell them I want some exercise for my feet.

The beauty of First Class is that there is no hard-and-fast rule on how to behave. It is designed for you to customize the experience within the resources available. Ask politely for whatever you want and treat the serving staff with courtesy. I've found that makes for the most enjoyable flight experience.

Dude you need to get a sense of humor. Had that guy been sitting next to me I would have taken a group photo of him and his buddies. I know sitting in F is hohum for everyone here. For some it's a once in a lifetime event. Let the guy enjoy his 15 minutes of "livin the high life".

Huh? Ordering one item to share is now a crime as well? :confused Ft etiquette rules are tougher than those administered by the queen of England.

Not harsh at all. Non-F pax are not even supposed to come up to use the F lav...although it happens when the FA is not particuarly sharp. That cabin is for those with F tickets only, full stop. They only time non-F pax should even see it is when they board and deplane. This is part of the service offered. If someone is seaparated from their spouse, the F pax can go back into coach and visit them, or learn to be seaparated from their spouse for a few hours. The world will not end. Splitting the seat is just tacky behavior, like sneaking companions into a hotel room to save a few bucks after you check in as 1 person.

On the other subject of doing a RTW in first...yeah, it can be hard to get it all the way. What you should do is save the F ticks for the longer haul flights and fly coach for the shorter haul flights, say under 4 hours.

Huh? Ordering one item to share is now a crime as well? :confused Ft etiquette rules are tougher than those administered by the queen of England.

I never said it was a crime, I said it was "trashy".

These guys were a bunch of drunken, noisy louts and two of the 3 should not even have been up there.

I think that situation is a bit different, though, from a paying first-class passenger having a visitor who is a well-behaved spouse, son or daughter, business colleague or friend — all with the permission of the cabin crew, of course.

Taking a doggie bag from a buffet is tacky and some might say stealing. Sharing an entree though - another matter entirely. I did this myself not two hours ago. Restaurant portions these days are huge and we often split meals; that way we each get a normal amount of food and in the process save a little money (although that's a secondary motivation). I don't feel compelled to order two entrees if neither of us is hungry enough to eat that much, just on principle.

OTOH, "sharing" the F product with friends in the back of the plane is just not OK.

Are there any actual airline published rules on the matter of visitors in 1st class and allowing unwashed Y passengers to visit?

The way I see it, I own that F seat for the duration of the flight. If I want guests coming in to say hi, I can allow them up there. And if I want to switch seats or let someone take a picture in my seat, it's my prerogative.

What I don't really understand is why anyone else cares what I do with my seat. As long as nobody is taking away your seat, it's really none of your business what I do with mine. Most of the time on a flight, whether in 1st or coach I am either asleep or have headphones on watching a movie. I really couldn't care less what the guy next to me is doing.

I don't care who sits in the seat either, but if there is contstant getting up and down, chatting, some butt in my face from their freinds coming to visit, and a general party, I get annoyed, and annoyance is not what they want for their passengers at any airline. There is more than likely someone in that row with you who has to put up with it, and if you are at the window and the stranger is in the aisle seat, it becomes a real PIA.

But you don't own the seat, and you certainly don't have any ownership of the F cabin itself to decide to start inviting people up into it. The F cabin is exclusive space, and those whose names are not on the manifest as such should not be up there.

I have to say I completely agree with pinworm on this. I haven't flown F yet, but when I do I would like it to be as exclusive as possible.

I've seen a photo on an airline website, showing a couple dining together at one seat. I tried to find it just now, but couldn't locate it quickly. It was either an international business or first class seat, with an ottoman. One sat on the ottoman and the other in the seat, the table was set for two. I could be remembering it slightly wrong, but it was certainly two people in one seat or suite doing something. This is the image that came to mind reading the OP.

I agree with most of the sentiment regarding exclusivity, except the idea that the paying first class passenger couldn't request their spouse come up to sit with them for a little while - assuming it's one designed like that in the mystery photo. Unless you see the person come in or have paid close attention to everyone else sitting in the cabin, you won't know any different anyway.

Also, it's a bit of a stretch to take the OP and what I'm saying as "inviting people up into it". ;)

As B747-437B alluded, a politely assertive or dignified request to the flight attendant could probably, on some airlines in some circumstances, have the desired result. And in my opinion, should.

Though it is just my opinion, I suppose. I mostly wanted to mention that photo I'd seen, not meaning to make this go back-and-forth. :cool:

Something along the lines of the pic in this blog.

Very well said it took about 5 minutes and here it is...

Both CX and BA can set this up for people who are keen. On BA though, you'd better hope that your companion has a modest behind...

on AA too

I thought the general rule on most airlines was that passengers of all classes are supposed to remain in the classes for which they are assigned.

and again...
Funny the second poster of this thread warned this might happen, why don't we drop the subject of visiting a pax in F?

Perhaps we can agree that if it's not against an airline's rules, and if it's okay with the FAs, then it is permitted. Still, there are those who think this should not happen even if it is permitted. I'm not one of them, but I'm not going to try to change anyone's mind about this.

Yep.

Along with the "Kids who won't get off my lawn," and "People who play that rock-n-roll music too loud" threads, it certainly will get some passionate responses.

It probably won't get as ugly as the "Who moved Bingo back 15 minutes - Now I can't eat dinner at 5pm!" discussion, but it will be close. :)

What if, hypothetically, the entire F cabin was occupied by just one party (a solo traveler, a couple, or a family)? Would it be OK for visitors to come up and visit that one party, since there would be no one else to disturb?

I flew the famous Delta "first" LAX-HNL yesterday, what I really missed with that cabin is that the cabin is not bigger. Y gives you the room to walk around. The service was great and as for the predeparture drink the default was mai tai, but people requested other things as well and that was okey with the FAs. But then again Delta domestic "first" is more like economy extra on intercontinental flights.

There were no published rules to be seen for the public, however, if you write letters to all airlines, certainly they can present you one from where they instruct the FA.


Don't just say what you can or will do, have you ever tried that yourself ? And unless you have the permission of the FA, you can't even switch seats in F.



NO, and I have flown and experienced in multiple long haul F flights, SQ/NH/OZ and even UA. All of my flights I was the only pax in F, if there were pax those were deadhead pilots. It is not about if one come from C or Y would disturb F pax, it is about anyone from C or Y are not entiltled to go pass the curtain.

Seems we're talking two different things here -the OP as I understand it has an F award ticket but space hasn't yet opened up for him. So he has paid for it (no different paying with miles to money) and presumably will if seats remain open get moved up -a bit of a different situation to Mr Tightwad who buys himself a F ticket but buys his wife a Y ticket and then expects her to be able to sit in F with him anyway.

Very well said

In the US post 9/11, many airlines consider passengers moving between cabins to be a security issue. I've seen multiple occasions on Delta where flight attendants politely but firmly remove passengers visiting the F/J cabin on those grounds - including cases which were obviously non-threatening, like a husband and wife sharing an upgrade 50/50 by each intending to occupy the upgrade seat for half of the flight.

Likely unique to flights that required you to remove your shoes to get onboard, but in this case would be a justification for denying visitors even if a single party occupied the F cabin.