emma69

The poster had showered that morning, I think that is pretty reasonable, not bad hygine. Had the poster not showered for 4 days, that would be unreasonable of them. If you can't smell, then how do you know if you smell? The poster had showered, presumably used deodorant, but their activities made them sweat. Unless you get someone to sniff you and tell you, how do you know?

What happens if someone has excessive sweating as a result of a medical condition? Deodorant only goes so far, and in a cramped situation it is going to end up smelling pretty bad. Unpleasant, yes, will it actually hurt you, no.

And if people think I don't know what bad BO smells like, trust me, after spending some time living with a family in a country that did not have quite as high standards of hygine (when I was looked at like an alien with 3 heads when I showered every day for example, and no, no water shortages in this country) and no one used deodorant, and 2 teenage boys, oh my goodness, I resorted to the 'perfume on a hanky' victorian trick, and spent as much time outside (and far away from them) as possible! It was yucky, but no long term harm caused.

malsf1

Perhaps the airline personnel should have handled it more discreetly, but if someone notifies a passenger that he has offensive body odor, that should be enough indication to the person that he needs to remedy the situation. Even if the airline handled it poorly, offering thousands of dollars in awards seems a bit over the top.

beta1607

I've been on multiple flights (and I do not fly often by FT standards) where the flight attendants asked passengers over the intercom to not eat or open bags of peanuts because there were passengers who were very allergic. Perhaps it was a slight annoyance for those who bought peanuts to eat on the plane but it certainly isn't anything worth risking the health of a fellow passenger over.

FLgrr

I dont wish to inhale cigarette smoke. can we ban it everywhere? Or should smokers realize the can not freely smoke just because they are outside? I know someone that is allergic to it. She must watch for smokers cause no one will ban the items that everyone says will kill you.

FLgrr

That is my point Emma69. people take seats, block you from doing something, even when there is no justification for it. But they due it because they feel they have a RIGHT to do it, even if illegal, against the rule or just rude to treat others that way. Like the person that drives fast because they are late. They have justified it that it is OK to do. It is WRONG!

stut

It's the classic liberal* dilemma: how far does a right extend when it begins to affect others?

That's where courtesy comes in - it's all part of the negotiation process when two people's "rights" clash. The solution? Perhaps we should limit what we consider as our "right" to something that is fundamental. Beyond that, we should be thinking in terms of principles, intentions and preferences.

* Liberal in the sense of 'free society', rather than the odd American political label

blue47

The answer is so easy. Other people should show courtesy to not interfere with my rights.

FLgrr

Well said Stut. The right ends where it interferes with another persons right to not have your right pushed upon them. Free speech is great, but it should end at the point where no one wants to hear you (or at least I don't want to hear you). Don't do it because you want/have to. Do something because the rule allows it AND you don't hurt someone else's right to not do it.

rjw242

And this was my point. One person's right is another's WRONG . One passenger can claim the right to recline their seat, and the one behind them can claim the right to not have their personal space reclined into. In the end what constitutes a right vs. a privilege comes down to which side of the argument you're on (at least in this sense, where there are no legally defined rights).

DFW_Airwolf

I would have done everything people had suggested if I was allowed to. Unfortunately this lady made a STINK (Excuse the metaphor) about it. By the time I could make them understand that this was something I had no control over, the plane had left and because I have no sense of smell & this is considered a DISABILITY the same as a Sight impared, hearing impared etc person. It became an issue under the Air Carrier Act preventing discrimination of passengers with disabilities. I felt & believe I had been discriminated against because they allowed the plane to leave without me when I had a valid reservation & had shown up ontime. Only because they sided with the passenger & the FA enforced this did they violate my rights. As I stated to them what would they have done if a person showed up in a wheelchair & a passenger refused to be seated next to them & they removed them from the aircraft. They would have been in MAJOR TROUBLE. Same thing I explained. I took reasonable measures & my disability prevented me from realizing there was a problem. When pointed out to me I would have taken reasonable steps to work with them. But I was not given that oppurtunity becuse of their actions until it was too late. (Plane had left & I had to wait over 6 hrs before the next one)

DFW_Airwolf

Rights & Coourtesy in this instance are somewhat the same. The Airline gives us the right to recline the seat. Now some people feel that it is their right to not be invaded. Unfortunately your right has been trumped by the LEGAL contract of carriage that the airline has with everyone. The airline has used what could be called common sense in trying to balance both passengers rights by limitiing how much a seat can recline.

I will enforce my right to RECLINE & have. And BTW the use of any physical or mechanical device to prevent a seat from reclining is ILLEGAL per the FAA and you can get in MAJOR TROUBLE if caught using one.

rjw242

Show me in any airline's contract of carriage where you're given the LEGAL right to recline.

And if my knees rammed up against the back of your seat prevent you from reclining, well, tough luck for you. I'd like to see the FAA try to prosecute me for being tall

FLgrr

Since the equipment provided by the airline (the seat) reclines, you have the right to put it where you want it to be. You do not have the right to take it apart to make it go further back. Nor do you have the right to push on the seat, kick it, etc since the airline gave the ticket holder the right to put the seat where they wanted.

rjw242

There's a great deal of confusion in this thread as to the meaning of the word "right."

edit: aside from stut, that is

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

DFW_Airwolf - I understand you have lost your sense of smell. I appreciate you did not know about the strong BO. But at the end of the day - did you expect to be carried or the plane to wait for you while you changed clothing?

For me - if there was even a remote possibility that I may have smelled then I wuold have taken action becfore getting on the plane 'just to make sure'. I know for example when I sleep I sometimes snore... so I always make sure I sleep on my stomach on the plane to prevent snoring and to be courteous to my fellow passengers. I would never think for one minute that my right to sleep also involved my right to make noise while I did so.

I agree that rights do trump courtesy, and if I'm having a really bad day then sometimes I will do things which are in my rights because it makes me more comfortable. But I often (later) feel a little bit selfish for doing so. All I have achieved is making 2 people feel bad instead of just me. Hardly worth it.