The real problems start when the Potts meet the Kettles.

(Or should that be POTS - Passengers of Tremendous Self-Righteousness? ;))

I think the general term refers to someone who is an inexperienced, infrequent flier AND their confusion negatively impacts those around them.

I add that second part because the vast majority of people in airports are infrequent fliers, but have some basic common sense, so their inexperience doesn't interrupt the general flow.

A KETTLE however, is the sort of person who forgets to remove their jewelry at the security checkpoint or seaparate their toiletries, ending up taking 20 minutes just to get through. A Kettle doesn't grasp the concept of ordered boarding and stands in the FC line while holding a coach ticket, and then cannot find their seat because they don't realize that row 22 is behind row 21 and that one side of the plane is ABC and the other is DEF. A Kettle doesn't understand crowd flow, and likes to stop and stand confused in high foot traffic areas: The top of the jetway, the entrances to the toilets, the security exit and so forth. A Kettle thinks the flight attendant is a waitress and treats her as such. A kettle returns from the lav and steadies themselves by grabbing every aisle seat headrest on along the way. Kettles see FA's from other airlines walking through the terminal and think of them as info booths for their own flight, janitors too. Kettles impact those around them in a negative way.

Generally, Kettles fly coach. They don't earn enough for ugs. But not always. I have seen Kettles in F several times. Being in coach does not make one a kettle.

I have also seen the term used to describe the collective VOLUME of inexperienced fliers in one place. For example, gate lice and line jumpers on WN flights.

Some people find the term offensive because it reeks of classism or elitism. Particularly in the US, where we are supposed to pretend there is no such thing as class differences. I disagree personally, I think it is perfectly appropriate and we cannot deny the existence of such people. We could call them worse.

What's a Kettle?

The exact opposite of the DYKWIA type.

You have no doubt seen those, they expect the world to bow down because they have some type of wallet candy issued by an airline/hotel. Or worse they claim they fly a lot, even though they define a lot as 2 domestic midcons a year, usually one business trip and one during amateur week, aka Thanksgiving.

You mean Passengers of Tremendous Size?

Rows 21 and 22?!?

They get on the plane and stop at row 1, expecting row 40 to be at the front of the plane.

I find them benign, but clueless.

Your second definition is a little short. This is a term stolen from the medical community where ignorant people show up at the emergency room with runny noses and other similar life threatening emergencies. It stands for Get Out of My Emergency Room-- GOMER.

I am the epitomy of a kettle, but I embrace it.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<See. ;)

Also, I note that on the last flight I took, the 737 I was on had consecutively-numbered seats up to about row 15, then suddenly changed to 21. I have to say that it left me wondering where the other five rows had gone to. :D

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

[email protected]

Funny, too, how this sort shows up in droves during bad weather, but never during the big game or on a particularly pleasant, sunny weekend afternoon.

So just how comfortable was your seat in row 17?;)

But never after WINNING the big game, and particularly after LOSING it.....

LOL. Well, the ticket said 21D, but it was definitely 16D in my mind. ;)

It was okay. Thankfully, I had an open middle seat on that flight.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

[email protected]

LOL I see what ya' did there....



:D

I am going to digress just a tad. If you really want to find out about the real Mr. and Mrs. Kettle, read Betty MacDonald's non-fiction account of her life on a chicken ranch in rural Washington during the 1920s. Her first book was The Egg and I. She was a young bride married to an older insurance salesman; shortly after the wedding, her husband decided to quit his job, move from Seattle, and purchase a chicken farm. The Kettles were just one of the neighboring families that Betty MacDonald encountered.

Her book was used as the basis for a movie called "The Egg and I" starring Claudette Colbert as the young bride. The Kettles were featured in the movie and became so popular that a series of movies was issued about them.

When I was in the 7th grade, I did a book report on The Egg and I. It was not only the funniest book that I had read but also the first that included "swear words." I am sure that my teacher was not aware of the contents of the book or else I would have been silenced; this took place a long time ago - back in the very late 1960s.

One of the more memorable scenes in the book was a discussion between Betty and Mr. Kettle while he was in the outhouse; there was no door to block her view. The Kettles had many children; the most memorable one had the nickname of "T*ts" and it was short for sister. Mrs. Kettle had immigrated from Estonia and married Mr. Kettle as a means of survival.

I read the book before I saw the movie (on television and not at the theater) and was disappointed that the character Kettles did not use the language that the real Kettles used.

Betty MacDonald wrote other books about her life; they are fascinating, hilarious, and extremely down-to-earth. If you ever come across any of her books, take the time to read them. She also wrote a series of books for children.

along similar lines

if I'm describing a Kettle situation, i might use the term "Jethro" for the male and "Ellie Mae" for the female such as

So "Jethro" sits down in First Class because he didn't realize that he and "Ellie Mae" (who were ticketed for seats at 34 B & E) were in coach....

Generally benign, yes. Frequently amusing, most definately. But exasperating quite often.

Usually my frustration arises not from one Kettle, but from the cumulitave frustration of Kettle after Kettle after Kettle. I fully expect to see them clog up security and grab my seat back as they walk back to their seat and stand at the airside outlet chatting with their families as dozens of other pax pile up behind them...but to go though it over and over and over several times a week becomes extremely irritating.

The more frequently you fly, the more beligerant to kettles you become.

I'm confused. Doesn't the "wallet candy" (e.g. elite status card) describe the DYKWIA?

Thanks for not using Billy Bob as a pejorative. :D

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

[email protected]

No, I don't; I meant exactly what I wrote. The idea is that a POTS = a DYKWIA. Their attitudes don't mix well.

Wow! I didn't know such an innocent post would become a large thread. :)

- Pat

No, but DYKWIA types often have wallet candy.
Many of us on FT have some type of wallet candy but don't play that card.

I'd have to say that DYKWIA's and Kettles are slices from the same pizza in terms of wanton self-centeredness. Both think the airline owes them something. Yet the former expects something personal: special treatment, free seat in next class of service, compen$ation, and $o forth. Yet the latter takes things all too personally: ATC at ORD initiates flow control just to show the Kettle who is running the show. GA woke up that morning bound determined to give Kettle the worst possible seat on the plane. Connecting flight is cancelled for the sole purpose of causing Kettle to miss child's wedding. Humidity in the cabin is kept low just to dehydrate Kettle...

Or this alleged line from the series:

June: Ward, don't you think you were a little hard on the Beaver last night?

Those of us who work in the travel industry (not just airlines) have it even worse. After seven and a half years of doing this, it's hard to not roll my eyes at and tell off stupid customers. Fortunately, I'm a layer removed from front-line work, but I still have to deal with them on a daily basis. I actually have one of my employees quitting next week because she's tired of dealing with Kettles (and DYKWIAs, for that matter).

I like the travel industry, but I don't think I could do front-line ever again.

Aha. I get it. :p

Every activity has its experts and newcomers. Play tennis? You have to put up with new players who don't understand the etiquette, who wear incorrect shoes, or play past their reserved time, etc. Board Surf? Once you get good at it, you'll be irritated by those who come out once a year, at best, jump the queue for the good waves and make things difficult and dangerous for the other experienced surfers.

It's no different with airline travel. Those who travel often know the drill. They can get through TSA quickly and efficently. They get elite status and upgrades. Naturally an expert flyer is irritated with newcomers who don't know the procedures and etiquette of air travel, just as expert tennis players or board surfers get irritated with people who don't understand the procedures and etiquette of their activity.

There are plenty of inexperienced travelers ("Kettles") who are experts in other fields of endeavor. They are not necessarily a bunch of idiots. I have an uncle who is an expert at Civil War history and who is independently wealthy from his stock market investments (but not from any inherited funds). Yet, he has not been on an airplane since 1996. He would be flummoxed by the TSA procedures. My uncle is a very smart man, very clever and expert in his own world. When it comes to air travel, however, he would be a true "Kettle".

Then there are the DYKWIA who present their Centurion card and expect respect because they have mastered the art of blowing money uselessly. A characteristic of FTers, by contrast, seems to be a desire to get the benefits while paying as little as possible for them. FTers don't seem much like Kettles in any respect to be, nor generally DYKWIA, but many of us most certainly qualify as Gate Lice.

Obviously different people have different notions of Kettle behavior, but I don't see it solely as inexperience. Even first-time flyers have at least some sense of how to be considerate in crowded, shared spaces like airports and airplanes (and TSA procedures can flummox the best of us). True Kettles, in my mind, inexplicably lack this. They're the equivalent of the shopper who parks his cart crosswise in the aisle at a busy supermarket, the escalator rider who stands in the middle with hands resting on both rails, the distracted driver weaving and doing 45 in the carpool lane.

Not realizing that your 3oz liquid bottles have to be in a 1qt resealable bag is forgivable for someone who's never dealt with the TSA; utter lack of common sense and courtesy to fellow travelers, on the other hand, is the hallmark of Kettledom. A nice dose of belligerence doesn't help either.

Definitely agree with this one, I was talking to some friends last night during our pre-drink and I ask my friend who is coming along soon on a trip to not bring any fast food onboard, aka "McDs".
Another friend along side asked why, and I replied "that's because fast food has that distinct oily smell in them and it's not easily getting rid of that smell in the cabin. It usually piss off frequent flyers, myself included who either have to endure that smell because they want it themselves or because it reeks horribly" She replies who cares? :mad:

A true kettle if you seen one, at least they are stuck in the 32E on an MD 80 while your in upgraded seat.

A perfect example of the McDonald's Paradox :D

I'm a huge violator of your rule

i'm a burger and fries guy big time.. prefer Five Guys but will take McD if thats the only option for a B&F to go

Sadly that does work both ways. Some time ago I tried to book a nice little holiday, wanted to take my mother to Noumea for a few days. Organised it with the very confident-sounding travel agent, who got back to me with a lovely, inexpensive package, Sydney to Port Vila for five days, nice hotel etc...
Me: But I want to go to Noumea.
Her: Yes (exasperated sigh from travel agent). Port Vila is the capital of Noumea.
Me: No, Noumea is the capital of New Caledonia. Port Vila is in Vanuatu.
Her: No, *Sir*, Port Vila is the capital of Noumea...(round and round it went...)
I ended up taking my mum to Hong Kong, just seemed so much simpler.

And aren't there some choice surfer terms for such newbies? And aren't there also some rather nasty things that experienced surfers do to the noobs? In comparison, we FF'ers are far more civilized than that! :D


Maybe he would be a Golden Kettle :D

That's the difference between an FF'ers and a Kettle - a true FF'er would never let the McD fries go cold, and would eat them in F while they are still hot and golden delicious crisp (usually during boarding, where FF'ers might be able to score a pre-departure beer to go along with the hot and golden delicious crisp fries). A Kettle in Y (or F) would let them get soggy and give off that skanky greasy smell.

Naa. Fast Food is for peons, like "coach" class, obesity, smoking and poor education. Never seen McScheise in F.

No paradox for me; the grease smell (hot OR cold) nauseates me and people bringing on deep fried anything is a really annoying part of flying for me.

Reading over this thread reminds me of Kettle experience that I witnessed in Honolulu on Sunday...

The man, who looks like he is from the mid-west, walks up to the TDC and hands over his ID and what he though was his boarding pass. TDC tells him that he gave her his flight detail page, and not a boarding pass, and needs to go back to the counter. He just stood there for a minute or two, staring at her, until he finally took the papers back from her and went over to the ticket counter to get a boarding pass..

I gotta ask...how does one look like they are from the Midwest? :D

Farmer tan? :)

I don't know how to describe it perfectly. I just got an excellent impression that he was... Maybe the wife beater, as well as mid-western accent gave it away.. :D

Sure signs of Kettledom at the airport:
Walking with a pack of people cluelessly so no one behind you can get by
Not-Walking on a moving sidewalk make me want to comment "Its a moving sidewalk, not a ride at Disney"
Stopping at the top or bottom of an escalator.
Thinks the overhead space above his seat is his personal o/h space

Now what do you call the elite guy standing at the gate reader an hour before his flight so he can be the first to board?

As long as they're not in my way, I don't mind the ones who stand on the right.

A gate louse without a Club membership.

There are a lot of reasons people stand on a moving sidewalk. They don't all involve ignorance. Please cut those who have difficulty walking long distances, even if they don't have an externally visible disability and can handle short distances well enough, a bit of slack. (They should stand to one side so others can pass, but that's a separate issue.)