First class flight help to Europe!
 

(Moderator: I'm not sure which thread to post this to, so feel free to move if needed).

I'm an AS MVP with about 100k miles. I also have 130k miles on American Express. My husband and I have been saving these for a luxe trip to Europe (prob Italy) in the fall, and are trying to decide which airline to take. We plan on going all out and booking F tickets ... but want to make sure the experience is the best. I need to stick with AS and Am Ex partner airlines -- so if you had to choose, would you fly: Virgin Atlantic Upper Class, Air France, Delta or American? Or anyone have any other suggestions? Your help is so appreciated!

I've never flown first class on any of those, but I've seen several surveys of business travelers in recent years that rank VA Upper Class the best.

Remember Upper Class is business not F,but still good especially the lounges.

VA Upper Class. Better than most airlines first class. Try to get on a747-400 much nicer & more room then Airbus 340

If you're thinking of award tickets.....

All those points are worth somewhat less than you might believe. The AMEX rewards are in most respects "fare-dollar-based", i.e. 130,000 points will buy you about $1300 worth of ticket, a long, long way from a 1C RT to Europe.

AS miles? I don't know about AS partners (I haven't looked), but an AA 1C RT to Europe averages about 125,000 miles for just one of the "Plan Way Ahead and Hope" variety.... I can recall getting 2 DL Business Elite RTs for 120,000, but that was a while back and hard to do. My last pair were 170,000 for the two, selected over a year ago for a trip in May, '09.

Don't scoff at Business Class vs. FC. For those used to air travel in the US, Business TATL on US legacies is still a "Giant leap ahead".

Where are you flying from?

A couple of notes and questions...

Are you thinking of burning both the AS and the Amex points for the trip? If so you'll need to find an airline that partners with both (unless you want to travel separately.) There are only a few - Delta, Air France/KLM, and British Airways. Virgin Atlantic (symbol VS) is not an Alaska partner, and American is not an Amex partner (in the sense of allowing conversion of Amex miles to AA.)

As mentioned above, most of the airlines on your list don't offer true international first class - VS' "upper" class is basically business class, Delta doesn't have FC, and Air France only on a few routes. American has FC only on flights to London and Frankfurt (occasionally one or two other European cities, but not consistently) but not to either of their Italian destinations (Rome and Milan.)

Regardless of your destination, chances are that you'd only get to a port of entry (London, Paris etc.) in first class, then would have to go down to business class (or below) for the intra-Europe part of your travel. Whether the transatlantic portion in F is sufficient grounds to spend the extra miles (i.e. the difference between business class and first) is your call. That's why the question of starting point becomes more relevant - from the US east coast to western Europe, the overnight flight over the pond seems to many to be too short to justify the extra miles; however if you're coming from the west coast it isn't.

One other note is that with Alaska miles you're limited to Alaska plus ONE other carrier. That means, for example, if you use AS miles to fly AA first class to London you can't use British Airways to fly to Italy; you'd have to do that leg on your own nickel.

The airline that would probably fit the bill the best - good FC product, eligible for AS redemptions as well as Amex conversions, through service to Italy - would be BA. Note BA requires more AS miles than the others for first/business class redemptions, plus BA whacks AS mileage redeemers with major fuel surcharges. If you're short with either AS or Amex miles you can buy some miles from either party (usually 2-3c per mile) to "top up" your accounts.

Then, of course, you need to find availability for your dates. Usually not a big issue with first class, but date- and route-dependent.

Happy planning!

Virgin Upper Class is a decent business product but a long way indeed from a 'proper' First class (except the ground handling at LHR which is world class).

Virgin UC is sold as business, but it's very, very good -- both on the ground and inflight. It's certainly better than any US airline's FC. If you can get it I'm willing to bet you'll be very happy.

Maybe it was ten years ago. Not any more, no better than any airline that has flat bed seating in business.

It will help if you tell us where you are departing from and whether you are OK with making one stop on your way to Europe. For example, there is a complex scheme whereby Amex miles can be used to go via Air New Zealand, believe it or not, from LAX to LHR. Their business class beats any of those you have listed but obviously only makes sense if you are going from the west coast. There is also Singapore airlines from JFK to FRA, but that's harder to get on an award.

Sure wasn't for me, that ground handling is why I won't fly upper class ever again. Namely, the refusal to allow me to carry on my 22" bag in Upper Class (while all sorts of Y passengers who had a friend to hold on to their bag while checking-in went straight onboard with massive items). Yeah, I know it's a rule, but give me a break -- what other airline imposes such a rule in business except when allegedly doing it for short-term security reasons?

I've flown UC plenty of times and also AA and UA F. I'd pick both of those over Virgin. VS has some good points - AVOD, Clubhouses, the private LHR check in, but the seat is average as a seat, dismal food and drink, variable service. The bed is good for J class but rubbish in comparison to an F suite.

Don't believe the Beardy hype!

Virgin Atlantic is not an AS partner, so your AS miles are useless there.

Thanks so much for all the advice! I know AS is not a Virgin partner -- but we're willing to buy one ticket/pay with miles for the best experience. Just trying to balance the smartest way vs. getting the best service. My husband and I love to fly -- so we we're looking for the best FC experience we can since we have the miles. I really appreciate the help!!

It maybe better than US carriers F class, but certainly not better than any asian carriers' F class, and some european F like BA or LH.

As already stated, VS upper class is not First Class. It is a business product. Also, if you're broad-shouldered, it is narrow.

You don't say where you're based, but that would be a factor for me. I wouldn't want to fly across the country in domestic F to get on a relatively short (5-6 hour) flight to London and then get on another flight to Italy.

I think if you redeem for BA on AS miles, you pay a pretty hefty fuel charge now...CDG also has a luxury tax for premium tickets. Plus there's the whole LHR/CDG thing.

If you were in the NW, I'd see what equipment was on the SEA-AMS route and maybe try for that. BA and AF are options also, but LHR and CDG would deter me. A nice, relaxing trans-Atlantic flight can be disrupted pretty quickly with a crappy arrivals experience, IMO.

Bottom line is do NOT fly a domestic carrier (Delta, United, NW, etc). To Europe I LOVE SQ, and LX (only if you can get on the 330-300, if it's the 330-200 forget it). LH isn't bad if you are traveling with someone, plus you'll get to use the FCT in FRA.

Just depends on how much you are willing to spend, and where you are coming from and going to.

With your Amex miles, if you transfer them to Aeroplan, it's 100k miles for an F ticket (at least I think it still is) and their taxes are VERY small compared to others.

Main point - cannot stress enough - do NOT transfer until you've found the flights you want. THEN transfer to pay. You cannot reverse a transfer.

Don't discount partner arrangement as well - for example, you can book *A first class via Continental - also VS and some others; OW via British Air or Mexican Air (IIRC); Skyteam via Delta, for example. Basically, each transfer partner has some level of access to their partner flights.

You'll usually get far better value with the transfer vs. pay with points.

Am in Los Angeles -- and think I've narrowed it down to BA. GREAT advice from all. THANK YOU! I'll advise when we book how easy (or difficult) the process is!

I'd look into the KLM flight, personally. But I have an aversion to LHR and wouldn't want to spend $600 on my "free ticket" for fuel surcharges.

xxxdupexxx

You could save a significant number of miles and money by settling for AA business class LAX-ORD-FCO or LAX-JFK-MXP. Service on the AA 763s in business class (no first offered) is extremely good, and the change of planes in either ORD or JFK is very easy. You won't get clobbered for fuel surcharge, and you'll need fewer AS miles than you would for business on BA.

You know. Good point. Why am I bending over backwards to fly F when it is, when all said and done, just another plane flight. It's not like I haven't been there before! LOL Should save the miles for other stuff.