FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   TravelBuzz (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz-176/)
-   -   Gold and US customs (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1032506-gold-us-customs.html)

DesertNomad Dec 28, 2009 12:10 pm


Originally Posted by SirJman (Post 13067484)
Did you pay the inheritance taxes then?

As it was under the taxable limit at the time, there were none to be paid.

Loren Pechtel Dec 28, 2009 12:36 pm


Originally Posted by DesertNomad (Post 13065882)
I am American, but resident abroad (for the past 8 years). Let's assume they were acquired while I was living overseas and now I just wish to store them in the US. I tend to think they are currency with a value of $500 CAD since they are in fact legal tender for that amount and could theoretically be spent as such in Canada. Can they be currency and goods at the same time?

If I bring in $9999.99 in pennies, the value of the copper and zinc is not relevant... why should it be with gold? It is interesting that US customs has no consistent answer for this when you ask.

We've had a tax case here based on this: He was paying his workers with gold coins and reporting the face value. Big penalties.

Loren Pechtel Dec 28, 2009 12:37 pm


Originally Posted by SirJman (Post 13067484)
Did you pay the inheritance taxes then?

Of course he didn't. You don't pay inheritance tax on anything you inherit. The tax is assessed on the estate, not the recipient.

DesertNomad Dec 29, 2009 5:27 pm


Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel (Post 13068160)
We've had a tax case here based on this: He was paying his workers with gold coins and reporting the face value. Big penalties.

If you are referring to the case in las Vegas it is not so clear:

"Further, the $50 gold coins and the silver dollars Kahre used for payroll are designated by Congress as legal tender, so people are entitled to value them at their stamped denominations, he also contends. Taken at face value, each defendant's annual coin income placed him below the threshold for filing a federal tax return."

Loren Pechtel Dec 29, 2009 6:50 pm


Originally Posted by DesertNomad (Post 13076918)
If you are referring to the case in las Vegas it is not so clear:

"Further, the $50 gold coins and the silver dollars Kahre used for payroll are designated by Congress as legal tender, so people are entitled to value them at their stamped denominations, he also contends. Taken at face value, each defendant's annual coin income placed him below the threshold for filing a federal tax return."

But then they owe short term capital gains tax when they sell them.

He got busted despite what the anti-tax people say.

DesertNomad Dec 29, 2009 7:01 pm


Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel (Post 13077268)
But then they owe short term capital gains tax when they sell them.

He got busted despite what the anti-tax people say.

Re: short term gain... yup.

The case however is still in court as far as I can tell. The IRS lost a similar case 2 years ago, not sure if this one will be the same or not.

Braindrain Dec 30, 2009 12:37 am

That's the bottom line. How much time and $ do you have for appx $10K worth of stuff?

Big difference between Customs and IRS. Customs confiscates first and places the onus on you to prove later.

airmotive Dec 30, 2009 4:29 am

Rather than debating what you think you should report, you could always read the law:

Currency Import Restrictions:
No restrictions, provided that arriving and departing passengers must report to US customs any money or other monetary instruments exceeding USD 10000. Gold: Importation of gold coins or small non-commercial quntities of gold must be declared upon arrival.

DesertNomad Dec 30, 2009 7:25 am


Originally Posted by airmotive (Post 13079066)
Rather than debating what you think you should report, you could always read the law:

Currency Import Restrictions:
No restrictions, provided that arriving and departing passengers must report to US customs any money or other monetary instruments exceeding USD 10000. Gold: Importation of gold coins or small non-commercial quntities of gold must be declared upon arrival.

I plan to declare it, but that information is not from an official IRS or Customs site. I have asked customs officers at my port of entry and have never gotten the same answer twice.

Brendan Dec 30, 2009 10:40 pm

Catch--22 re the employer who pays with gold/ silver coins: He can get in trouble for violation of the minimum-wage law!

Years ago a Customs officer told me that gold was a "Monetary Instrument" under the reporting law. I don't know if there's any distinction between gold ingots vs. bullion coins with a marked face value. OTOH, Krugerrands are legal tender in South Africa for the daily market price of gold bullion, so are reportable to US Customs at bullion value as money.
In fact, it was forbidden to import Krugerrands into the USA in the late 1980s when South Africa was embargoed under sanctions to punish the apartheid regime.

DesertNomad Dec 31, 2009 7:00 am

Krugerrands are unique in that they have no face value - but Maple Leafs are stamped "50 Dollars".

SkiAdcock Dec 31, 2009 8:27 am

Just declare the higher value & be done with it. It sounds like you know it could be more & are trying to figure out a way around it. If they ask you how you came by them, you mention the inheritance & odds are you're not going to get hit with a fee, or a minimal one. Or at least you can have the discussion in-person with them on the face vs market value. That's probably better than having them confiscated & then paying a penalty.

Cheers.

Loren Pechtel Dec 31, 2009 12:12 pm


Originally Posted by Brendan (Post 13084389)
Catch--22 re the employer who pays with gold/ silver coins: He can get in trouble for violation of the minimum-wage law!

Good point!

meester69 Dec 31, 2009 2:22 pm


Originally Posted by xanthuos (Post 13064332)
The currency restrictions are, to the best of my knowledge, on the FACE value of the currency or monetary instrument. If I'm bringing a 1969-S Lincoln Cent With a Doubled Die Obverse (value, about $35,000) in or out of the country, I believe it's only considered 1 cent.

From CPB.gov

“Money” means monetary instruments and includes U.S. or foreign coins currently in circulation, currency, travelers’ checks in any form, money orders, and negotiable instruments or investment securities in bearer form.

These bullion discs are referred to by numismatists as 'non-circulating legal tender', and are not necessarily perceived even as coins, given that their function is purely as bullion, there is no difference between importing 10 of these and importing 10 ounces of gold jewellery.

slawecki Dec 31, 2009 2:52 pm

about 10-20 years ago, i went back and forth carrying large sums of travelers checks. first biggest problem was to get a customs agent to meet me to get the forms done.

second problem was, once i finally got forms filled out and filed, i frequently was pulled out of line and patted down if i had not filed forms.

the largest tc at that time was $100 as i recall. i would have at least a 3-4" stack of those things. not something one can easily hide.

point is, i was marked and tracked.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 6:08 pm.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.