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-   -   New first classes (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1016890-new-first-classes.html)

chornedsnorkack Nov 14, 2009 10:50 am

New first classes
 
Which airlines that previously did not have first class (only business class) have added first class recently?

I can remember Jet Airways and Oman Air. And THY (Jet´s planes.). Who else?

Which airlines have lost first classes since Jet Airways gained theirs? And who are imminently planning to lose first class?

Mr H Nov 14, 2009 4:44 pm

I don't know about timescales, but SA recently dispensed with F when they stopped flying 747s.

Eastbay1K Nov 14, 2009 7:00 pm

LAN's remaining few F cabins disappeared within the past year.

Steve M Nov 15, 2009 12:59 am

And, especially with the upgrades to Business class service that most long-haul operators have been making, it's not uncommon for 3-class operators to reduce the routes where they have a First class product, even if they maintain it to some degree.

chornedsnorkack Nov 15, 2009 8:15 am

A list of First Classes that does not seem to have been updated for a few years:

http://www.airlinequality.com/Product/seats_global.htm

Aerolineas Argentinas, Air China, Air France, Air India, Air Jamaica, Air Mauritius, Air Tahiti Nui, All Nippon Airlines, American Airlines, Asiana Airlines, British Airways, Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, China Eastern, Dragonair, Egyptair, El Al, Emirates, Etihad, Eva Air, Gulf Air, Japan Airlines, Korean Air, Kuwait Airways, LAN, Lufthansa, Malaysia, Philippine Airlines, Qantas, Qatar, Saudi Arabian, Singapore, South African, Swiss, Thai, United, Varig.

Kagehitokiri Nov 15, 2009 1:33 pm

that list has a lot of airlines that have had updates.

amazing that F is being dropped entirely though.

suites are going to be interesting to watch. (EK 9W SQ EY JL)

chornedsnorkack Nov 15, 2009 2:00 pm


Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri (Post 12822952)
that list has a lot of airlines that have had updates.

Yes. I meant the list has not had updates, not that the airlines listed have not had.

Another, somewhat newer list can be found at:
http://www.seatguru.com/charts/longhaul_first_class.php

Noting only the additions:
Air India probably always had first class, and was probably just missed by airlinequality.

What is the status of Hainan Airlines?
Kingfisher is probably error by seatguru, since I think they prefer to call their single premium class business.

I can remember another newish First Class that neither of the lists has. TAM.

Kagehitokiri Nov 15, 2009 2:30 pm

ah, gotcha

theres also - http://www.flatseats.com/

travelsavant Nov 15, 2009 2:48 pm


Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri (Post 12823229)
ah, gotcha

theres also - http://www.flatseats.com/

Nice site; thanks!

chornedsnorkack Nov 18, 2009 3:09 am


Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack (Post 12823092)
What is the status of Hainan Airlines?

On checking, it turns out they have First Class on A340-600, which they got from Cathay Pacific and kept the interior. Like THY.

TravelEnthusiast Apr 14, 2010 11:26 am

First class developments
 
I think the most recent carriers to have introduced long-haul first class are Turkish and Oman Air. Turkish took previous Jet Airways planes with their first class suites. I think also Royal Brunei recently planned to take a few such planes from Jet and thereby also introduce F, but that deal reportedly was abandoned and those planes are going to Thai instead.

Garuda is planning to introduce new aircraft with F in the near future I heard.

Hainan Airlines is mentioned above and indeed they took a few (3 I think) Cathay Pacific A340s with F but my impression is that Hainan is (oddly) selling these seats as business class despite being used on long-haul routes.

I have read about Kingfisher and Arik Air planning future long-haul aircraft with a real F product but it is probably uncertain if this will materialise.

On the opposite question, airlines who have abandoned F in recent years include South African, Air New Zealand, Eva Air, Varig (defunct) and most recently Philippine Airlines, LAN and Air Mauritius. In addition US Airways and Royal Jordanian have formally dropped F as a separate class but the old F seats are still on some planes sold as C. Recently, Gulf Air announced that they are also dropping F and during a transitional period the existing F seats are sold as a sort of premium C.

Airlines that may drop or reduce F in the near future (or so it is speculated anyway) include Air Tahiti Hui, Egyptair and China Airlines.

These developments still leave some 30-35 F players so this market is still alive despite the occasional predictions about its demise! :)

gglave Apr 14, 2010 2:14 pm

One could argue that Air Canada's old Executive First offering was really just "business class" but could now post-upgrades could be considered "First Class."

Flux Apr 14, 2010 3:55 pm


Originally Posted by gglave (Post 13771492)
One could argue that Air Canada's old Executive First offering was really just "business class" but could now post-upgrades could be considered "First Class."

From the AC webside, their Executive First looks identical to the TK/9W Business Class (77W).

TravelEnthusiast Apr 17, 2010 7:05 am

Air Canada's "Executive First" is, just like Kingfisher's "Kingfisher First" mentioned earlier in this thread, technically a business class because there is only an economy product beneath it on the same plane. Of course, in terms of product quality and seating there is nowadays a certain overlap between business and first class in that the best business class products with flat beds (Kingfisher, Virgin, Jet Airways, BA etc) are better than some products labelled "first class" (particularly some African and Middle Eastern carriers such as Egyptair, Kuwait Airways, Saudi Arabian, Air Algérie and TAAG Angola).

This raises the question what "first class" means - does it refer to (i) a cabin class which is technically a first class product since there is both economy and business class below it or (ii) a cabin which meets today's long-haul first class standards with spacious, individual seating converting to comfortable flat beds or (iii) a cabin labelled "first class" by the airline itself? For example, Kingfisher First meets criterion (iii) and probably (ii) but not (i). On the other hand, Egyptair's first class meets criterion (i) and (iii) but not (ii). Etc etc. I guess ultimately what matters is the relationship between product quality and price rather than anything else....


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