Exactly.^

Regarding TA, what I meant was that you post, and your post stays.. unedited and unfettered for the most part.. unless its offensive and beyond inaccurate of course, determined by the moderators, just like this forum.
No I don't remember honestly.

I don't remember neither honestly. Why don't you show me the quoted link before accusing me posting such garbage.

Where did I say that YOU posted that? Unless you were posting multiple padded reviews for Fat Bike Tours of Paris, or Segway Tours of Milan, why are you getting upset?

I'm pointing out why Trip Advisor is unreliable, which happens to be the topic of this thread. Any website which lists a segway tour of one of the most interesting cities in the world as the number one attraction is not reliable.

By the way, the ASA does not agree with you about Trip Advisor. Read the link I posted for more info. They had to change their claims over here.

What do you mean? That is one HELL of a HGI :D

That is one of the most glaring weaknesses of TA... the fact that hotels are held up to totally different standards.

e.g., the $40 a night Howard Johnson room actually provided clean towels and had free wifi? 5 stars.

The $325 a night St. Regis room was dimly lit and had a smudge on the bathroom mirror? Outrage! 2 stars.

Not to mention cultural differences, or the ignorance or bias of the reviewer. I was reading reviews for restaurants in Italy and so many contained things like 'the server refused to speak English even though I KNEW he spoke English?!!!!!!1111111' that I had to switch to just reading the reviews written in Italian. (Actually a decent feature that one can sort reviews by language)

I actually switch TA sites quite often depending on where I am going. For instance, if I am staying in a 'local' hotel in India I may want a different view point than if I am staying in a chain hotel in India.

I contacted TA on July 11 concerning a hotel in Barcelona which they flagged as wheelchair accessible. I forwarded to them an email from the hotel confirming they weren't.
Apart from the usual standard reply from TA, nothing has been done!
This would have been a quick and simple correction.

This is one of my biggest beefs with TA. I've emailed them several times explaining to them that restaurant X no longer exists, has moved, or the map is horribly wrong. They have NEVER bothered to make any changes to these listings.

Still, I continue to rely on TA when visiting places that don't have good coverage on other sites. For the most part, I would say that they have at least pointed me in the right direction.

Yes I do too and I haven't had any disappointments with them particularly when visiting the US.

The whole point of TA is to get away from the limitations of a guidebook: it represents what one person thinks and what that person found on one day, often when management knew that s/he was a guidebook writer.

One major guidebook to Scandinavia a few years ago mentioned, in their History section, that Admiral Nelson bombed Copenhagen during the Napoleonic wars. Unfortunately, the British bombing of Copenhagen was in 1807, and Nelson died in the Mediterranean (at the battle of Trafalgar) in 1805. They may have fixed it since - I wrote to them and haven't checked the current edition - but guidebook authors are often not the "experts" their publishers would like you to believe.

A historical error in a guidebook causes a fraction of the frustrations travelers who find a restaurant no longer exists or a hotel is not wheelchair accessible when they're handicapped receive.

Only those knowledgeable about the topics you've listed, would post on such peripheral topics. You seem to know about these topics intimately.. so you must post quite a bit on those topics?

guidebook is the perspective of one viewpoint, and not necessarily indicative of the best value for the money.

TA is real time, up to the day.. hard nosed facts by those who spend their hard earn money giving spending their valuable time to give feedback. Wading through the piles of information that sometimes seems fluffy, I always find the gem piece of information I'm looking for, to conduct a knowledgeable stay.

Well i really don't agree with your point that trip advisor is not reliable.Even today people who are looking for good accomodation while travelling first look on the trip advisor for the reviews,how is the dining facilities, staff, rooms and many more things .

The only reviews I rely on now are those on the actual hotel websites. First of all, those guests are verified and actually did stay at the hotel, and although I first thought that it may end up creating a bias based on editing, I can't see any evidence that any review is actually deleted, because I have had some pretty bad experiences and yet the reviews have stayed. I do think that if there is any horrible language that they would rightly be able to edit those, or delete the comment but keep the rating.

I don't know why TripAdvisor seemed to be so good a while ago, but I can no longer rely on the ratings, just like others have posted, I find it troubling that a Days Inn can outrank a Four Seasons Hotel...

That is where common sense comes in. Are you a 4 Seasons person? Then you should know that you are not going to be happy at a Days Inn, no matter how it is ranked.

I have never paid much attention to their ranking, as it never has been completely accurate. Like anything else, take it with a grain of salt.....

:confused: You obviously are having difficulty in understanding what I wrote, so let me try and write it differently to help you understand my point that Trip Advisor is not neutral. (And by the way, unlike some here, I do not have a Trip Advisor account, have never posted a review on Trip Advisor, and while I am quite intimately acquainted with Paris have never taken a segway tour there or anywhere, and the only payment I have made for a bicycle in France is for Vélib’)

In recent days, the top rated attractions in some of the major cities of the world included:
- Edinburgh: gokarting
- Munich: helicopter ride
- Rome: American tour guide
- London: team building game (this one is consistently rated THE top attraction in London)

My point is that none of those can be considered the 'best' attraction in any of those cities out of hundreds of options, let alone in the top five. Someone is consistently rating them five stars, with no four/three/two/one star ratings.

It's doubtful that EVERY SINGLE PERSON found those things perfect, yet those types of things (plus segway tours, and bike tours costing more than $100/person for a few hours) seem to always have perfect ratings, and push their way above historic sites, museums, and other true top attractions in some of the best cities of the world.

As to the ASA comment, there is in Europe a lot more scepticism about Trip Advisor, hence they had to change their claim to be unbiased and truthful. In London, the number 11 rated out of more than 10,000 restaurants was actually closed (it was a short term pop up), yet continued to receive perfect reviews and rate highly long after anyone could possibly eat there. Another restaurant which was actually a fake rated number 29 in Brixam, even though the address was actually an alleyway filled with rubbish bins, and the restaurant had never even existed.

In the UK, there are reports that some hoteliers have tried to pay off those posting poor reviews if they remove those reviews.

I actually had to stay in a 'local' place in the UK this year. It had received very high ratings on TA, well above some of the luxury hotels and boutique hotels in a major city. Yet there were also some one star reviews, and the rebuttals from the manager were humourous in their defense of the property and disdain for the guests.

During my very short stay, the lift was broken, nobody could find the key to open the window (during a heat wave), there was no lock on the inside of the door and housekeeping walked in twice despite the Do Not Disturb, the internet failed to work at all, and the power went out times for at least a few hours at a time. (All this when I was only there for a few hours in the evening, and overnight, for two days)

When I tried to check out early, and explained politely my issues, the manager berated me in the exact same fashion he had done to the negative reviewers online. Yet this place continues to be very highly rated, and one may think initially that the low reviews are due to whingers.

They are valid based on my experience, and yet they are refuted each time very rudely, and the property continues to maintain a very high ranking.

I would find that info very useful. If I read reviews, where the owner responded beligerently, I would probably not book it, or if I did, would expect the owner to act that way toward me, no matter how highly ranked it is. An owners response is an even better indicator of what kind of hotel it is than the review itself. One hotel I keep looking at has several reviews saying it is dirty. All the responses from management say the same thing, that they were very busy, and did not have time to inspect the room. Ummm, would I expect a clean room if I booked there? Probably not.

I understand peoples concerns about the ranking of hotels, but I dont understand why people dont just ignore the ranking, and go by what they actually read.

As far as attractions, you can sort by what type of attraction you are looking for. It is all subjective, depending upon personal preference. You really cannot compare a helicopter tour to a museum tour.....

Oh absolutely the responses were helpful. Unfortunately I had no choice but to stay there, and in the end the bad reviews were spot on, and the manager was true to form. He disputes pretty much every single review not entirely pleasing, and even claims to have had to consult their solicitors about certain reviews. :rolleyes:

I just wonder who though is giving them all those glowing reviews which keeps them near the top of the list...

exbayern is absolutely spot on with regards to attractions... that are a certain set of paid activity types - segway tours, bus tours, silly helicopter rides etc. These consistently get pumped up reviews. I would venture that 95% of the reviews of these are fake.

Lol, if the owner is that big an *ss, he probably IS soliciting reviews. Or even paying for them. In the end, he will be caught, and his listing removed or tagged as fraudulent.

I do have to agree with people that said Tripadvisor is s l o w to respond to corrections to their listings though. I am not sure why. I have found if I put a listing in the forums as closed, it will get taken care of. But if you just respond to the listing itself, it never seems to get done. Just my opinion. Tripadvisor is not at all a perfect tool, but it is a useful one.

No he won't.... that is the whole problem with the site

To summarize :

• The hotel ranking is clearly loosing its accuracy / still ddecent for a very first screening on a city you don't know

• But this remains THE most convenient source whenever you search for a specific information on a given hotel or want to forge your opinion yourself

That is also a very good point which is why I stopped using the information on that site for attractions a very long time ago. I assumed that people aren't as apt to report their experiences in that category as opposed to hotels. I also enjoy the responses and they absolutely affect if I will stay at the hotel. I want to know that if I do stay, what kind of response would I get if something happened. It always amazes me how many people work in the hospitality industry, yet don't seem to know the meaning of the word. The service industry is clearly not a one size fits all type of category.

I don't find it hard to believe at all that anyone would try to pay off sites to remove reviews that show them in a bad light. A bad review can ruin a hotel.

Tripadvisor many times will NOT remove reviews though, even with evidence showing the review is not accurate.

An example. A guest in our hotel got angry and wrote a horrible review saying we put him in danger by allowing a person into the hotel that he didnt want in. We have clear video showing him letting that person into the hotel several times, and taking him up in the elevator. We contacted the guest and asked him to remove it. He agreed. Tripadvisor refused. We did not pay, threaten, or in any way coerce the guest, we simply let him know that we knew he was lying.

But what if the Four Seasons was way below its own standard, and the Days Inn is above its?

Rating is about value in the context of class. A Chevrolet Tahoe with 4* crash rating , it should be obvious to everyone , is safer than a Chevrolet Spark with a 5* crash rating.

Activities aren't really useful. They lack critical mass of reviews for a statistical sampling. And there are few activity alternatives, anyway.

I recently went on a 4-wheeling trip. At the end of the trip, the operator provided a discount on the spot for anyone who reviewed their business on tripadvisor with the computer at the counter. At home I reviewed their business truthfully, and deducted another * for the strong-armed tactic. (I would have done the trip regardless)

For the hotel with the combative manager responses... I would have read those reviews and not gone to the hotel in the first place.

TA is just a tool and its up to the user to use it in a proper manner

Thanks for the affirmation. Perhaps now the poster who somehow seemed to think that I was insulting him by pointing out padded reviews will now understand that he had no need to be offended by what I wrote.

Unfortunately it was a case of the entire area being sold out, and being relocated there with no choice. I made it very clear why I was leaving, and also told the party who had booked that place why I left, and the response. I am always suspicious of places which have as many 5 as 1 ratings, or ratings equally distributed across all categories (unless they recently renovated, in which case it may be possible)

Oddly enough, there are actually helpful reviews for that location. The city construction has long passed the forecasted ending date, and when I stayed there it was impossible to drive down the road, so to reach the place one had to detour to another street and then climb a steep hill on foot, or if coming by foot also detour quite a bit. Several reviewers pointed out that the city construction had been extended, I think in an effort to be helpful to anyone staying, and the manager berated those people too! I would certainly want to know if I couldn't reach the place by taxi and had to climb a steep hill with my suitcase to get there...

Often these reviews are tied into third party review sites, that you find off of third party websites. IMO, its a bit of a conflict of interest between a review site linked with the hotel website. I see that review ratings are skewed to the more positive on actual hotel review from hotel review sites.

Trip Advisor may have some link mechanisms, but so do most websites, including FlyerTalk where we are discussing this issue. FlyerTalk take for example is considered neutral where we can express our opinions. Trip Advisor is the same way. Both websites have media link and advertisements going on.

My point is, as I've stated in the previous post, is that we are able to collect actual patron reviews, and process the information about the experiences, for our own use. You won't find a purely neutral website out on the marketplace without advertising and links.

I stand by my statement, although there is fluff, Trip Advisor remains the best sources of information out there. Its how we process the information for our own use.:-:

I rely on the forums to tell me things about accessibility or anything else I want to know about a restaurant or hotel. I've found the people who post in the forums to be tremendously helpful and honest.

I really don't pay much attention to the reviews and rankings except to get an idea of specific places and then I (search first and if there isn't the information I need) post my questions in the forums.

But we're not talking about external links or advertising; we're discussing the actual reviews and ratings on Trip Advisor.

Trip Advisor is definitely not neutral, as has been proven several times over. At least the UK ASA forced them to change their slogan from 'reviews you can trust', as they were proven not to be neutral or trustworthy.

Feel free to stay in Glasgow's homeless shelter though; it's been very highly rated on Trip Advisor and made it into the top 100 hotels, even though it's also considered the worst homeless shelter in Scotland.

Read up thread and you'll see the discussion is about email alerts, rates and advertising affecting the sites neutrality. Flyer Talk is a perfect example of raw opinions tempered by its membership, just as Trip Advisor is. The use of moderators and administrators doesn't take away from the post quality IMHO.

I keep reiterating that it's how the content is used. Again, Trip Advisor is the best source of raw end user information regarding hotels on the Internet.

As you mentioned and corrected me about outliers. Your Scotland hotel is a perfect example of outlier.

If by raw you mean "paid for" then maybe

I would like to know whatever crack it is you are smoking because it sounds good to me.

It used to be, but is hardly now. The actual reviews on the hotel sites are the best source now. If all the one user reviews were deleted, you may have a point with Trip Advisor, but as long as the stays are unverified, the reviews are far from reputable.

I didn't know there were different types. By I guess it takes a pro to know there are different types of crack cocaine.

Any forum can have someone paid to monitor the forums. On Trip Advisor, General Managers are paid, in turn part of their job is to ensure customer satisfaction, and follow up Trip Advisor comments.

Here on Flyer Talk, there are paid liaisons from various loyalty programs and businesses involved. So if by neutral you mean lack of paid postings, then I think you may want to rethink the forums you are involved on.

While I am always wary of one post wonders, I am surprised how many people post for the first time about the hotel I work in. They are not paid, or asked to post, and for the most part, their reviews are pretty accurate. This has led me to not discount the single posts anymore, but to just average them in with the others. I still give more weight to a user review that has many many posts though.

I NEVER failed when selecting a hotel room with TripAdvisor

the hotel pictures at hotel websites are the most unreliable things on earth

the ability to see real pictures of the place is the most important thing that TA provides

just compare rankings with other websites + be suspicious when reading 1 time reviews and that's it

it's still a great tool

If you think there are not huge swathes of paid-for fake reviews on TripAdvisor you either a) naive, b) not very clever, c) smoking crack or d) all of the above. But go ahead and fool yourself otherwise. And TA doesn't care because it gets money for more and more content. Quantity is far more important than quality

Then perhaps you will want to go back and read your post 337 and your subsequent [post attempting to discredit me where the discussion was specifically about actual 'reviews' on Trip Advisor, and not about email alerts, rates, and advertising.
I'm pleased that I was able to teach you something new, but I don't agree with you about it being an outlier. Nor do the courts or regulatory bodies (nor do the majority of people on this thread agree with you either, apparently)

And unfortunately just like on Flyertalk, quantity of posts doesn't always equate to quality of posts.

I reviewed post 337, but it seems to me there is a language barrier (you mention previously you are German, thus I assume your primary language is German), my post you quoted has me referring to other posters who was questioning the neutrality of the site due to external mechanisms such as email alerts, marketing and advertisng, etc. I stand by my posts and see no contradiction.

Sure there may be a problem with one hotel, but is there a lawsuit against every hotel on Trip Advisor.. a lawsuit of the same nature? The answer is no. This again is a perfect example of outlier, even in the sense of litigation.

If you're talking about my posts, funny, I think the same about yours.

yet another "outlier"

http://loyaltylobby.com/2013/11/26/v..._source=feedly

After reading this thread, its time for me to grab my tin foil hat. Be right back.