NickB

Thanks but other Skyteam airlines (such as MEA) show a seatmap that accords with that of KLM and so does Expedia.com (except for one seat). Clearly, Skyteam airlines and Expedia, etc.. pull their seat availability map from somewhere else than EF does. I am not sure what it means to say that EF seatmap is "correct" if it shows seats as available which are seemingly in fact not available to passengers. EF seatmap no doubt reflects the feed that it receives. It does not necessarily follow from this that this feed is "correct" in the sense of reflecting the reality of seats available to passengers.

In any event, we clearly have a discrepancy for which there is at present no explanation.

ExpertFlyer Voice

No, there is no discrepancy. Those seats are available, you are just blocked from reserving them. Here is why:

When the seat map is requested in C class (full fare Business):
4G*KL887C3APRAMSHKG«
AUTH-320 772
0 - AMS 1 - HKG
NO SMOKING FLIGHT

GAL GAL GAL GAL GAL GAL
LAV LAV
A C D G H K
1 . . . . . . 1
2 . . * * * * 2
3 * . . * * . 3
4 * . . . . . 4
5 . . . . GAL GAL 5
GAL GAL GAL GAL
LAV LAV
6 . . . * B . * 6
A C D G H K

AVAIL NO SMK: * BLOCK : / LEAST PREF: U BULKHEAD: BHD
AVAIL SMKING: - PREMIUM: Q UPPER DECK: J EXIT ROW: X
SEAT TAKEN: . WING: W PAID: P LAVATORY: LAV GALLEY:GAL BED:S
PREF ACCESS LAV: PAL DOOR: DOR SCREEN: SCR CLOSET: CLS
PREF ACCESS:H BASSINET:B LEGROOM:L UMNR:M REARFACE:@

When it is requested in D class (Discount Business):

4G*KL887D3APRAMSHKG«
AUTH-320 772
0 - AMS 1 - HKG
NO SMOKING FLIGHT

GAL GAL GAL GAL GAL GAL
LAV LAV
A C D G H K
1 . . . . . . 1
2 . . / / / / 2
3 / . . / / . 3
4 * . . . . . 4
5 . . . . GAL GAL 5
GAL GAL GAL GAL
LAV LAV

6 . . . * B . * 6
A C D G H K

AVAIL NO SMK: * BLOCK : / LEAST PREF: U BULKHEAD: BHD
AVAIL SMKING: - PREMIUM: Q UPPER DECK: J EXIT ROW: X
SEAT TAKEN: . WING: W PAID: P LAVATORY: LAV GALLEY:GAL BED:S
PREF ACCESS LAV: PAL DOOR: DOR SCREEN: SCR CLOSET: CLS
PREF ACCESS:H BASSINET:B LEGROOM:L UMNR:M REARFACE:@

As you can see the seats are in fact available, they are just shown to you as blocked (or in most websites case, "unavailable") because your ticket class can't reserve them. However they are in fact Available as you can see when looking at the true seat map.

NickB

Ah, thanks a lot. That makes sense and is very helpful: KL blocks seats in the business cabin depending on booking class, something I did not know.

fairhsa

Just signed up for Expert Flyer - and cannot find Cathay award availability. Do they just not do it? The Cathay thread has loads of people quoting stuff [that I thought came from expert flyer] so I'm confused. If not them, who else does this?

percysmith

Cannot. Not sure if it is an information licensing issue.

In any case I expect it will return same info as AM own https://www.asiamiles.com/amwdsibere...NTRYCOUNTRY=HK
You still have to go thru BA/JL/QF to find partner availability.

Cos we're trying to figure out whether there'll be seats released later on.

angra

It's been a couple of years since I've tried to book an award on DL, and a lot has changed in the interim.

I've been trying to use EF to search for available low-award inventory, and am confused by the results. As an example, if I look for 2 business class seats ATL-TYO on October 25, I get a result which seems to indicate that 2 saver level business seats are available on DL295:



but if I attempt to book this on DL.com, I get a price quoted from them of 240,000 miles per person, which is probably not saver level for a one way flight.

Is EF wrong, or getting bad data, or is DL.com wrong, or is there something else I'm missing?

lopinc1

As VS and FlyingBlue show the award inventory as well, it looks like it is saver level. Guess DL just wants to gouge you.

angra

so, does that mean for folks using DL Skymiles, Expertflyer can't track pricing in any concrete way?

Globaliser

I don't think EF has ever tracked the pricing of award tickets. All that EF can do (and AFAIK has ever done) is to tell you when there is inventory available in the relevant booking class(es). So there is no difference there.

This is in contrast to cash fares, which are published to the GDS by airlines. EF will list those. But even then, airlines sometimes have private cash fares that they will sell on their own websites but do not formally publish. EF likewise can't track these.

I suspect that the problem you are facing may be to do with the position (AIUI) that DL has no fixed mileage prices for award tickets any more, but changes these at its discretion. EF can tell you whether there's availability, but not what DL will ask for an available seat - and that has always been the case.

Keter

Does it make sense to add advance seatmap search which allow user to select the 'letter' to look for? As you say the system returns a different avaialbility for different selling classes so it makes sense for people to check their own booking class and not the highest one (as the seatmaps are normally for that one i guess).

angra

yes, to be clear, I don't mean this as a ding on EF - I'm just trying to understand the totality of the information flow for my scenario.

Once upon a time, there was a hard relationship between award fare bucket availability and pricing in miles on DL.

I know that a lot has changed, both at DL and in the data relationship between EF and DL since the last time I attempted this. I've not been able to fully suss out and understand the information that Delta provides, but I have seen hints and posts in the DL forum that implied to me that the information about the pricing might be embedded into the fare codes.

Since for now I am stuck with DL skymiles, I am mostly trying to figure out whether EF can help me with my task. It *seems* like the answer is no, but I want to avoid jumping to that conclusion.

Globaliser

If the price charged by DL may depend on which cash booking classes still have availability, then at least EF can help a bit with that if you run a search for standard availability for that flight as well.

That would be similar to the information you have to extract if you're likely to be priced using a Dual Inventory Fare. You have to check availability in the cabin in which you wish to travel, but you also have to check availability in the lower cabin whose inventory governs which DIF will be valid for your flight. In that scenario, it's easier because you can see both bits of information on the one screen. It may be that DL's current system needs you to do two searches on EF: one for award availability and one for cash availability.

ExpertFlyer Voice

Well our goal has always been to provide the most accurate information of the true state of a flight. By requesting the full fare class code for a seat map you see the true status of the seats, even if you can't reserve a particular one with the discount ticket you may have purchased. It's something we can consider, but it also adds a level of complication (also with Seat Alerts) that we are trying to avoid.

capedreamer

Question from an EF newbie: Doing a search for YOW-PEK on 4/22 (as an example), I see these options via YYZ:



Why are the different 'options', which all require taking AC31 on the same date, show different availabilities in various fare classes (C8 vs. C2 vs. C5 vs. C2 for example).

I see this for many flights on many dates. Any ideas why?

Globaliser

This is a revenue management tool called married sector (or married segment) availability. The availability in a particular booking class is governed by your end-to-end journey rather than fixed by flight. It is not a coincidence that in the first example, availability is C8 D4 on both flights, and in the second example it's C2 D1 on both flights. The numbers are what the system is offering for the pair of flights taken together.