jrockway

Sure I don't think anyone thinks the flight attendants are stupid. The reality is a cost/benefit sort of thing. The passenger wants to use his electronic device for the entire flight, and has convinced himself that doing that is probably not going to make the plane crash. Unfortunately, this desire conflicts with the law. So he has to decide; deprive himself of the electronic device, or violate the law.

This ends up being a pretty easy decision, though. If he uses the device and gets caught, he just gets a stern warning. If he doesn't get caught, then he gets what he wants. So there is really no downside to ignoring the rules, and there is a big upside for not following the rules. So people don't follow the rules.

If there was some actual punishment, then people would probably pay more attention to the rules.

(And FWIW, I have a Kindle, but I don't use it until the FA says it's allowed. I know it's an electronic device, and I know it's against the rules, and I don't want to get yelled at. So I just look out the window for 5 minutes. But I think I am nicer than many frequent flyers )

Davidwnc

Tell that to the man with the pacemaker!

Dodge DeBoulet

What I'm saying is that there are so many other devices on the plane in states that violate the rules that there's not much point having the rules in the first place. Those are "conveniently" ignored by flight attendants.

Blackberries, Windows Mobile phones, iPhones, Symbian devices, PalmOS and WebOS phones don't completely power off when you press the "Off" switch. However, pressing the "Off" switch is normally all it takes to satisfy an FA, so please tell me how a Kindle is any more a danger than any of those devices, on or off, nevermind the aforementioned laptops and other personal electronic devices previously listed that are for some reason exempt from a FA's attention.

As far as removing the battery to guarantee that a device is "off" is concerned, that might prove difficult without very specialized tools for some phones, particularly the iPhone. And it's no treat with most Blackberries, either.

Join the sheeple if you like; it's your choice. I prefer to use common sense coupled with a basic working knowledge of electronics.

flightattendantsteve

Techically the FARs say turned off. I personally don't have an issue with a passenger using a Kindle during Take Off and Landing... unless your seated in an Exit Row. Keep in mind that almost all emergencies happen during TO/Landing, the most critical times of a flight... If I need you to help me evacuate the AC and your sitting in the Exit Row I don't need you distracted by your Kindle. So I'm going to ask that you turn if off and properly stow it in the overhead bin or in your bag under seat in front of you. (Your holding it on your lap doesn't count as stowed)

Davidwnc

I understand that, but do you do the same with people reading a book?

AAFA

If you're in the exit row and my jumpseat is in front of you, your book has to be stowed to save my teeth.

FWIW: MY phone is always on. It's stowed though. That's the major point. You need to take your stuff and put it away for takeoff and landing.

FARs say everything off for takeoff and landing. FARs also say everything stowed. Stowed takes precedence over off because not stowed creates projectiles.

If your stuff is on and you don't blatantly have it out and about, who cares? If you have it on and you're actively working with the device, than you need to stop and put it away. When you are actively working on it while telling us it is off, it's irritating to the flight crew. Irritating the flight crew is not good for you.

When you're blatantly violating the rules you're creating trouble for yourself. The short period of taxi-takeoff or landing is not worth being a crybaby over. Is it?

AAFA

The correct flight attendant response would be, "I'll call the captain and we can return to the gate and let you off".

Dodge DeBoulet

My, my . . . that would create quite a public-relations issue if a passenger were to put that response to the test. While I haven't had any problems using my Kindle during take-off and landing, I just might take an FA up on the offer to return to the gate in such a situation . . . and you can bet I'd be calling every consumer advocate I can find.

CNN Breaking News: "AA Passenger Ejected from Flight for Bible-Reading."

I'd also bet the captain would be more than just a little annoyed to find out that an FA took it upon him/herself to deny a passenger the benefit of the soothing word of his deity during the most dangerous portions of the flight.



Oh, and

Dodge DeBoulet

And for passengers not in the exit row? Are they required to stow their dead-tree books because of their projectile potential?

My Kindle is a fraction of the weight of the average JK Rowling or Steven King hardcover novel, and is far less effective in causing personal injury, regardless of the method employed.

Ah, I see. The "rules" don't apply to you, so no problem, right?

Dodge DeBoulet

Do you request that passengers in exit rows stow books/magazines/newspapers too? I'm guessing that you'll answer "no."

What, specifically, makes the Kindle (or any dedicated eBook reader) more of a distraction than any other type of reading material?

flightattendantsteve

Actually David, Medical Devices are exempt from the FAR concerning PEDs

Allanf

So true. The hope and expectation of many is that early in 2010 Apple will be introducing their rumored "tablet" which will not only be a "Kindle on steroids" with hyperlinks to great multimedia content of interest to the subject matter but also a full fledged netbook, etc. At that time I guess the FA's would have to either refer to "the approved devices listing in the SkyMiles magazine" or where ever or specifically say NO to Kindles. However the new Tablets will arguably be smart phones on steroids with texting and e-mail capability. And reportedly some other vendors will have mini- tablets with 4" screens - not much larger than an iPhone. So when the FA's announce that cell
phones and other electronic devices may be used until the boarding door is closed but computers may not be used and must be stowed etc., how will they regard the new "tablets"?

Allan F

AAFA

It wouldn't be your bible reading that would make you go back to the gate, it would be your twitching and heavy breathing that would do it.

If you weren't displaying signs of a panic attack or some other ailment, I would explain to you that your electronic device needed to be turned off and if you really needed to read the bible I would get you the one we had on board.

AAFA

Get it in your head that it is an electronic device and needs to be turned off and stowed and you'll be ok. A real book doesn't turn on and off.

BTW, The exit rows I'm talking about are those that are at door exits where the only seat in front of you is the FA jumpseat. I'm not talking about the window exits.

Dodge DeBoulet

A Kindle is a "real book." It just isn't made out of dead trees. Perhaps you need to get it in your head that eBook readers are no more "on" than the many dozens of passengers' electronic devices on your aircraft that you conveniently ignore, not to mention your very own FAR-violating cell phone (which, by the way, generates levels of EMI orders of magnitude greater than any eBook*, and is therefore a far greater threat to the avionics of your aircraft**). Don't talk the talk if you can't walk the walk.

That I understand, and your specific concern with regard to unsecured objects as potential projectiles is valid. But the post to which I was responding wasn't in reference to that issue, it was flightattendantsteve's claim that eBooks are a distraction . . . apparently moreso than "conventional" (but no more "real") books. I asked him to justify his claim, but he has so far declined to do so.

* Some eBooks, notably the Kindle, are equipped with cellular radios for the browsing, ordering and downloading of books. The radio in mine is turned on only when I run out of reading material and need to obtain something new, then turned off again.

** I am in no way suggesting that cell phones are dangerous to aircraft avionics, but that is one justification that the FAA is using for their demand that all electronics be turned off for takeoff and landing, and cell radios be kept off during flight.