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-   -   Thinking of defecting to a Apple: Macbook (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-technology/925261-thinking-defecting-apple-macbook.html)

Tummy Feb 27, 2009 6:40 am


silver-colored aluminum
Actually the body is made from anodized aluminum, so it's aluminum-colored aluminum :)


But I know people do stream from Macs to say PS3s which are hooked up to TVs. You have to really fiddle though to make that work.
I got MediaLink and it took 30 seconds to setup streaming to my PS3. Very easy.
http://www.nullriver.com/products/medialink

Tummy Feb 27, 2009 6:49 am


Originally Posted by wiredboy10003 (Post 11330335)
Tekserve, my local Mac place, is advertising the earlier version of the Air for $1100.

The Apple Store online has refurbished 1.6ghz models for $999. Comes with a 1 year warranty and you can get the extended 3yr Apple Care warranty on it as well. I bought one of these when they first came out for $1800 so $999 is a pretty good deal.

I would really advise getting the new version or getting the new Macbook instead (which I also got when they first came out). The performance on the new version is much much better than the first gen Air. Its actually similar to the performance of the regular Macbook, especially if you get the SSD. But by then you're looking at $2500.

If you work for a big company or federal government or in education, you can also get a small discount if buying directly from Apple. Otherwise Amazon is usually a better deal as you can avoid taxes in most places and get free shipping.

flyingfkb Feb 27, 2009 7:20 am

I switched from Windows XP to Mac last December and I'm happy with my decision. I need my MacBook Pro mainly for surfing the internet, reading emails, doing some text editing, watching movies, etc. Everything works fine and is pretty easy to use. I can't say how well a Mac would work in an all Windows office environment.

From some experience I can say that Word, Excel and Powerpoint for Mac with the latest updates from Microsoft work fine. Entourage on the other hand is light years away from Outlook and no fun to work with. Apple's Mail and Thunderbird for Mac are much better but lack the tight integration of Outlook with an Exchange Server. So for people who rely on Outlook and Exchange for work should think twice about getting a Mac. You might be disappointed. An alternative is to install bootcamp and run Windows XP or Vista on a second partition but in this case you can buy a high-end Windows laptop cheaper.

My biggest issue so far with my MacBook Pro is the DVD Superdrive. While it is pretty simply with most Windows PCs and laptops to make the DVD drive region free it is impossible with the drives installed in the newer Macs. The drive won't play any DVDs if it doesn't get a key which is compares the region setting of the DVD with the setting of the drive. This is done within the drive and can't be overwritten by software.

pdxer Feb 27, 2009 8:26 am


Originally Posted by wco81 (Post 11329626)
As for Adobe, I believe there are Mac versions of Photoshop but of course it's not cheap. Nor is Light Room.

there is, and adobe will exchange the windows version for the mac version (or vice versa) for the cost of shipping. there is also photoshop elements which is typically under $100 for non-pro users.

fredsxb Feb 27, 2009 9:07 am

Mac vs. PC!

There is no definite answer to that question!

Here's my humble experience:

I've been playing around with computers since I was ten (I'm 37 now) and I think I qualify as a "Geek".
I started with a Sinclair ZX81 back in 1982 and went to a Dragon 32, then Apple IIe, Commodore 64, Amiga 500, Mac 2Cx, PowerMac 7500, Powerbook G3, Powerbook G4, PC P4 XP, another Powerbook G4, PC Vista, Toshiba XP PC Notebook, MacBook Intel, Acer Aspire One Linpus...

I am currently using on a regular basis: 2 XP PCs, 1 Vista PC, a Macbook, a Powerbook G4 1.5GHz, a Powerbook G4 500Mhz, a Toshiba XP PC notebook, and an Acer Aspire One Linpus...

As you can see I'm a late PC adopter.

Anyway, I've never spent so much time troubleshooting computers than after I started to buy PCs. Macs tend to be a lot more reliable in my experience and more importantly they're a lot easier to back-up and restore than PCs.
You can just clone a Mac HD to an external HD and clone the external HD back to the MAC HD or any other Mac HD. No need to reconfigure things, worry about drivers, motherboard etc... It will just work!
It's very easy. Should your Mac die, just buy another one and clone your back-up external HD to it and it will just run the way your dead Mac used to.

This is not something you can do on a PC. It is just a pain when you buy a new machine. The parameters transfer utility provided in Windows just doesn't work/isn't reliable.
The Mac utility that does that works flawlessly...


So anyway, You can do the same using a Mac and a PC.
If there is a PC software that doesn't exist on the Mac, you can run it using Parallels or Bootcamp.
Macs are a lot easier to use IMHO and easier to backup.

Just my 2 cents!

pred02 Feb 27, 2009 10:58 am

I am actually now starting to look at netbooks, primarily the Asus EEE. If it can get me 90% there at 1/3 the price of the Macbook, I think its the way to go. Will report back on a decision.

wco81 Feb 27, 2009 11:32 am

I'm interested in netbooks too but for ultra-portability.

Have no illusions that you will get the same utility because of the smaller keyboard and screen.

So it would be a good thing to have as a second or their computer.

Apple could make a cool one, with a multi-touch screen which might make it more usable if you don't have to rely on the small keyboard as much.

Netbooks probably killed the value of the MacBook Air.

thegeneral Feb 28, 2009 12:15 am

I have a friend who had a laptop in the form factor of a 'netbook' years ago. I don't get how reducing the price on an already existing form factor warrants its own name.

You'll still be stuck with some version of Windows running on 3rd party hardware and all that comes along with that. By the time you add the software to match iLife that 1/3 of the price becomes 1/2 or more. Not to mention that in 2 years time, each of the machines will have depreciated the same value. The only difference being that the Macbook will actually have some value.

A small PC might make a great choice for a secondary laptop for traveling, but a 13" laptop gives you a full keyboard and decent sized screen. The build quality on the new Macbooks is amazing.

Some things are just worth spending the money and in the long run the price difference is negligible.

GadgetFreak Feb 28, 2009 7:23 am


Originally Posted by wco81 (Post 11331671)
I'm interested in netbooks too but for ultra-portability.

Have no illusions that you will get the same utility because of the smaller keyboard and screen.

So it would be a good thing to have as a second or their computer.

Apple could make a cool one, with a multi-touch screen which might make it more usable if you don't have to rely on the small keyboard as much.

Netbooks probably killed the value of the MacBook Air.

I have an Air and an Asus. I hardly ever use the Asus. The Air weighs a bit more but has a great 13 inch screen and a pretty good keyboard. I run all the programs I normally do with a Mac including all the ones to hook to my desktops or servers. I also run XP in VMFusion and can run the few windows programs I still use (mainly Outlook).

GadgetFreak Feb 28, 2009 7:27 am


Originally Posted by caspritz78 (Post 11330439)
I switched from Windows XP to Mac last December and I'm happy with my decision. I need my MacBook Pro mainly for surfing the internet, reading emails, doing some text editing, watching movies, etc. Everything works fine and is pretty easy to use. I can't say how well a Mac would work in an all Windows office environment.

From some experience I can say that Word, Excel and Powerpoint for Mac with the latest updates from Microsoft work fine. Entourage on the other hand is light years away from Outlook and no fun to work with. Apple's Mail and Thunderbird for Mac are much better but lack the tight integration of Outlook with an Exchange Server. So for people who rely on Outlook and Exchange for work should think twice about getting a Mac. You might be disappointed. An alternative is to install bootcamp and run Windows XP or Vista on a second partition but in this case you can buy a high-end Windows laptop cheaper.

My biggest issue so far with my MacBook Pro is the DVD Superdrive. While it is pretty simply with most Windows PCs and laptops to make the DVD drive region free it is impossible with the drives installed in the newer Macs. The drive won't play any DVDs if it doesn't get a key which is compares the region setting of the DVD with the setting of the drive. This is done within the drive and can't be overwritten by software.


I have multiple Macs (desktop and notebook) and use Outlook routinely. I dont use Boot Camp though but simply fun XP in a VMFusion window. With the built in multiple windows manager in the new Macs but XP world is just another window I can click to. That is the kind of flexibility that makes the Macs hard to beat in my opinion.

RichMSN Feb 28, 2009 7:43 am


Originally Posted by pred02 (Post 11331501)
I am actually now starting to look at netbooks, primarily the Asus EEE. If it can get me 90% there at 1/3 the price of the Macbook, I think its the way to go. Will report back on a decision.

This is really hard for those people who haven't been running MacOS X for 6+ years like I have. For me, it's a no-brainer. I wouldn't go back to Windows as a primary operating system for anything. Like I posted above, I still use Windows for work and have set up my MacBook to run Windows either from boot or from VMware Fusion, but the only time I even go into Windows is to do my expense reports (Excel spreadsheets I'm too lazy to ever move to the Mac side) or work with the software we sell. Or when I need a shared calendar on the Exchange server. That's it.

Non-NonRev Feb 28, 2009 9:53 am

Does anyone have a fairly current (year 2008, say) figure of what the PC vs. Mac market percentage is?

RichMSN Feb 28, 2009 9:57 am


Originally Posted by Non-NonRev (Post 11336213)
Does anyone have a fairly current (year 2008, say) figure of what the PC vs. Mac market percentage is?

From what I've found, Mac is at about 10% right about now, higher than in a long time.

I'd post some links, but it's easier to just use the Google on "Mac OS percentage" or something like this.

wco81 Feb 28, 2009 10:05 am

I think that's optimistic.

Apple was doing real well in specific areas like laptops sold at retail or laptops sold to the consumer segment.

They might have had double-digit shares in current sales, not installed base, in those specific segments.

So they had some good momentum but this economic crisis may just reset everything for every manufacturer.

RKG Feb 28, 2009 10:09 am


Originally Posted by brp (Post 11312534)
I've never been a Mac user, and love the PC. But I will agree that, even these days, there is often some amount of "configuration" required if one wants to go off-road at all. Most of the stuff just works, IME, but some things require intervention.

As an example, my Moto RAZR has a mini-USB for power, so I figured I could charge it from my computer. Well, I could, but it required a special driver to set it in a power-supply mode. I had to go out and find the driver, then install it. For me, no problem. For someone who doesn't want to muck with this, could be a bigger deal. Of course, I don't know what would happen on a Mac if one plugged a RAZR into a USB port and it didn't have the power supply driver.

I like the PC because of the configurability aspect, but I can see how this could be a detriment to some who don't want to do this sort of thing. Again, though, all the basic stuff (such as the thing that the OP mentions) have always just worked for me, at least through XP.

Cheers.

I have no problem charging my RAZR on my MacBook Pro. I did not download a driver. I just plugged it in and it works.

wco81 Feb 28, 2009 10:36 am

I have a GPS logger made by a small company.

It charges fine via USB but it's using a serial modem to USB driver rather than a storage device USB driver so it doesn't mount on the Mac desktop.

So I use the software, which also geotags my photos, to extract logs from it.

I think the PC software also does the same but I don't know if Windows requires a device driver for it.

nmenaker Feb 28, 2009 3:43 pm

yes, I think one has to define "of total pcs'" of NEW pc's, and of NEW LAPTOPS, and of laptop market.

I THINK that the latest of pc's, was like 6.5% last year, but more like 15-20% of laptops sold, which was higher than any other MANUFACTURER, I THINK.

Total of all pc's is not really going to be anywhere more than the 2-3-4% that people have quoted in the past, since the new acceleration in second and third world sales, low cost and netbooks is nothing the mac competes in.

ScottC Feb 28, 2009 4:15 pm


Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 11336241)
From what I've found, Mac is at about 10% right about now, higher than in a long time.

I'd post some links, but it's easier to just use the Google on "Mac OS percentage" or something like this.

I think the final numbers for 2008 will look really bad for them - the Netbook market is killing Apple. As usual, they completely missed the opportunity to make their own Netbook, and a lot of people are just buying a Dell Mini 9 and turning it into a Hackintosh.

wco81 Feb 28, 2009 4:22 pm


Originally Posted by ScottC (Post 11337698)
I think the final numbers for 2008 will look really bad for them - the Netbook market is killing Apple. As usual, they completely missed the opportunity to make their own Netbook, and a lot of people are just buying a Dell Mini 9 and turning it into a Hackintosh.

It's not that simple though.

MacBook was their big-seller and it probably took years for them to develop the unibody models which they intro'd only in the last quarter of 2008.

They probably set up their supply-chain around MacBooks, based on it being their best-selling Mac for years.

Sure they could put out a netbook and I hope they do (with multitouch, which is better for smaller form-factors) but they have to figure out how to position it so that it doesn't cannibalize their mainstays.

Maybe price it high enough that they get good margins but in order to do that, they have to offer value that isn't in the market already.

BTW, I thought they still had a good earnings report for the final quarter of 2008.

Oh and the hackintosh crowd is not their customer base. Those are the people who complain about not having FLAC on iPods or iPhones not playing Divx videos.

They did well without catering to that crowd.

wiredboy10003 Mar 1, 2009 6:54 am


Originally Posted by ScottC (Post 11337698)
I think the final numbers for 2008 will look really bad for them - the Netbook market is killing Apple.

To me, the purchasers of netbooks and the purchasers of MacBooks seem like different markets. Netbook people were already looking for a $600 laptop for doing basic tasks. They're happy with a basic machine for surfing the web. People who buy a MacBook are a little less price sensitive and more style conscious. Maybe they're into more media related stuff.

I know that NYC, where I live, isn't necessarily representative of the world as a whole, but when I go to Starbucks, the only people with tiny laptops are Japanese girls. Businessmen have Lenovos and Dells, and everyone else has a Mac.

swanscn Mar 1, 2009 7:15 am

I am switching back to PC
 
To me a PC desktop or notebook is simply a tool, it is not a style of fashion statement. I tend to keep these things for extended periods just becasue there is s new model does not mean the one I am using no longer works. When I look at tools I am looking for the tool that gives the best value for the task required. In my opinion the price points of mac's do not provide the best value. This is not to say it is a bad tool it is just does not represent the best value to me. For example I can buy a Snap on Screw driver with a life time warranty or I can buy a crafsman screw driver with a life time warranty. THe second costs about 1/2 or less than the first and the screw does not care what one I am using. For general purpose business and casual use the PC due to its price points with the included software represent the crafsman screw driver to me. You can ge a fine machine running XP and microsoft office for very good prices. And if you do not like Internet Explorer get FireFox it is also free. I am not a fan of open office or neo office while free in my experience do not work well with others. What I mean is if I create a presentation in open office and sent it to someone who is also running open office (but maybe a different service level) most of the time the presentation formatting is affected such as font sizes. BTW, I work for a company that pushes Open Office hard but I use MS Office even on my mac.

fredsxb Mar 1, 2009 7:21 am

Wirelessly posted (iPhone 3G: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)


Originally Posted by wiredboy10003

Originally Posted by ScottC (Post 11337698)
I think the final numbers for 2008 will look really bad for them - the Netbook market is killing Apple.

To me, the purchasers of netbooks and the purchasers of MacBooks seem like different markets. Netbook people were already looking for a $600 laptop for doing basic tasks. They're happy with a basic machine for surfing the web. People who buy a MacBook are a little less price sensitive and more style conscious. Maybe they're into more media related stuff.

I know that NYC, where I live, isn't necessarily representative of the world as a whole, but when I go to Starbucks, the only people with tiny laptops are Japanese girls. Businessmen have Lenovos and Dells, and everyone else has a Mac.

I think that many people looking for a 3rd computer buy netbooks. If netbooks did not exist they might have bought a regular notebook (PC or Mac).

GadgetFreak Mar 1, 2009 9:10 am


Originally Posted by fredsxb (Post 11340019)
Wirelessly posted (iPhone 3G: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)



I think that many people looking for a 3rd computer buy netbooks. If netbooks did not exist they might have bought a regular notebook (PC or Mac).

Or in my case, probably nothing at all. But I think they are selling a lot to people who have a desktop but want something for surfing and email but dont want to pay notebook prices. I dont see a lot of people deciding between getting a netbook and a loaded PC or Mac desktop replacement. I think those are separate markets.

wco81 Mar 1, 2009 9:55 am

Yeah lets see if netbook sales sustain for a few years before declaring standard laptops defunct.

Every week, they have sales of regular laptops with optical drives, more RAM, more CPU, more screen and more keyboard for as low as $400.

So you pay a premium for the form-factor of a netbook. But how many netbook buyers not only have a desktop but another laptop already?

RichMSN Mar 1, 2009 10:42 am


Originally Posted by ScottC (Post 11337698)
I think the final numbers for 2008 will look really bad for them - the Netbook market is killing Apple. As usual, they completely missed the opportunity to make their own Netbook, and a lot of people are just buying a Dell Mini 9 and turning it into a Hackintosh.

The odds of me buying a Netbook are just about 0. I was looking to slim down my briefcase, so I got a MacBook to replace my Dell D820 Latitude. I think it's just a personal thing, but the idea of less than a 100% sized keyboard is a deal breaker for me.

To me, the worst thing Apple could do would be to put out a cheap-o Netbook that cannibalizes their MacBook offering.

Blueboys999 Mar 1, 2009 11:05 am

I bought a new Macbook (my first Mac) when the current model came out in October 2008.

Up to last week I loved it then on Monday it just wouldn't switch on. I called my nearest store (where I bought it) and was told I had to make an appointment with a 'Mac Genius' in the store who would look at it. I turned up 5 minutes late after a 35 mile journey and was told I could be put 'on standby' and might have to wait a few hours!

After creating a fuss, they deigned to look at it for me. The 'genius', who I had to correct about what my name was 3 times, clearly hadn't the faintest idea what was wrong with it so he took it in for repair.

It seems that they will call me in "the next week or two" and I will have to make a 70 mile round trip to collect it. I have been warned that I must have the receipt they gave me (on which the genius has spelt my name wrong) and photo ID or they won't hand it over.

When it was working, I loved it but I won't be buying another if my experience is in any way typical.

pdxer Mar 1, 2009 11:18 am


Originally Posted by Blueboys999 (Post 11341003)
It seems that they will call me in "the next week or two" and I will have to make a 70 mile round trip to collect it. I have been warned that I must have the receipt they gave me (on which the genius has spelt my name wrong) and photo ID or they won't hand it over.

When it was working, I loved it but I won't be buying another if my experience is in any way typical.

wow, that's unusual. usually repairs in the stores take a day or two (even same day in some cases).

and while it may be too late now, you can also call applecare directly and they'll dispatch a box to your door. you then pack up the computer and overnight it back to them (completely prepaid) and usually it's repaired and overnighted back the next day. the whole process takes 2-3 days unless there are parts shortages. it's also possible to drop off a machine at a store and have it shipped back to you.

DiscoPapa Mar 1, 2009 12:33 pm

deleted.

Blueboys999 Mar 1, 2009 1:53 pm


Originally Posted by pdxer (Post 11341089)
wow, that's unusual. usually repairs in the stores take a day or two (even same day in some cases).

and while it may be too late now, you can also call applecare directly and they'll dispatch a box to your door. you then pack up the computer and overnight it back to them (completely prepaid) and usually it's repaired and overnighted back the next day. the whole process takes 2-3 days unless there are parts shortages. it's also possible to drop off a machine at a store and have it shipped back to you.

I'm UK based so that might be a factor? I was very specifically told that I couldn't have it shipped back to me and would have to call in person.

EDIT - It seems the collection and despatch service isn't available in the UK having been discontinued in 2006!!

pred02 Mar 2, 2009 9:29 am

I am +1 on the style thing, I will not deny it. However, in terms of utility i look at it this way. If the Netbook can get me 90% of what I need for 1/3 of the price, I will go down that route. I do have plenty of desktops at home, and a work laptop. As of now, I need a laptop when going away to Europe a couple of weeks per year, so I can keep in touch not do business work.

I will try the Netbook and if its too small and the keyboard is too tiny, then I will sell it or give it to my parents and get a Macbook. Even if I move abroad I would build myself a nice desktop so I can play Microsoft Flight Simulator, and use the Netbook for travels.

The thing is tiny, I saw it in Microcenter yesterday, I have to admit. How easy and usable the thing is going to be is TBD. But the fact that I don't need to get another laptop case to carry the thing (and just shove it in my backpack) is very, very nice.

Rampo Mar 2, 2009 9:51 am

I've only had a week to play with my Asus EEE 1000HE netbook but so far I am very pleased . The keyboard is 92% the size of a regular laptop's and is described as "Sony/Macbook" style. It's slightly heavier than most netbooks at 3.2 pounds and no dvd drive, of course, but the optimal 9+ hours of battery life is a major plus for my transpacific flights. My only wish is that it had an S-video output, but that's a very minor quibble. It does have 3 usb slots which is better than many laptops.

manneca Mar 2, 2009 9:57 am

I haven't used an IBM since my first computer, an IBM 360 with 512K of memory. Well, it wasn't mine, but I did program Fortran and as little COBAL as I could get away with.

Been Apple since the II. BUT, I bought an MSI Wind for travel. I was going to hackintosh it, but decided it was too much work. (And besides, I'd need a USB keyboard and mouse which I didn't have. Just bluetooth.) I wanted it to store my pictures on travels and to write travel journal and keep up with FT. $250 was a whole lot cheaper than the $$$$ for the MacBookAir. If my investments ever go back up, then I might consider an Air. I think Apple has made a mistake in not going to a cheaper netbook. I downloaded Open Office so I have a few programs. I put Lightroom on it. It seems to work OK even though it only has 1 gig of ram. I really needed somthing lighter to travel with since my photo gear is so heavy.

fromYYZ_flyer Mar 2, 2009 1:02 pm

For anyone who has the newer Mac notebooks with black "chicklet" keys, do you notice any wear? When I think black keys I automatically think the finish will look worn down.

GadgetFreak Mar 2, 2009 8:20 pm


Originally Posted by fromYYZ_flyer (Post 11347368)
For anyone who has the newer Mac notebooks with black "chicklet" keys, do you notice any wear? When I think black keys I automatically think the finish will look worn down.

I use one of the 13 Mac Books with black keys and dont notice any wear. I use it a lot too.

wiredboy10003 Mar 3, 2009 9:21 am


Originally Posted by fredsxb (Post 11340019)
I think that many people looking for a 3rd computer buy netbooks. If netbooks did not exist they might have bought a regular notebook (PC or Mac).

Interesting you say that. I have a big Mac at work and and a MacBook Air. A couple of weeks I bought an HP 1000 Mini because it wasn't too expensive and I was thinking I wanted a cheap little netbook for travel. Aside from the obvious Mac vs. XP difference, I have to say that the Air is really a nice experience compared to the HP. Everything from the screen size to the attention to design details. I realize that lots of tradeoffs are made to get to a $400 price point. Suddenly my Air feels like I'm driving a Mercedes Sport.

Tummy Mar 3, 2009 10:44 am


Originally Posted by GadgetFreak (Post 11350017)
I use one of the 13 Mac Books with black keys and dont notice any wear. I use it a lot too.

I also haven't noticed any wear. I use mine all day. I also find the backlighting with the black keys to be better than on the previous MBPros with the silver keys. Much easier to read in medium lighting. For some reason a lot of people don't like the black keys.


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