Need help deciding on a phone
 

On January 1, I plan on leaving Sprint. I want to have a GSM phone so that when I travel, I don't have to use my old Sagem dual-band Orange locked P.O.S.

Anyway, I thought about getting the iPhone. What I like about it is the web-browsing (real internet vs. WAP), and it's ability to be an MP3 player.

What I don't like about the iPhone is that it's locked to AT&T, it can't send/receive photos and it does not record video (I know you can d/l hacks for that, but I want all this to work out of the box). And AT&T doesn't work in the living room of my NYC apartment (...?)

Since the iPhone is pretty darn expensive, I was going to see if you guys have a recommendation for a phone that meets the following criteria:

- Real web browsing (not WAP)
- GSM (quad-band)
- At least 2MP (preferably more) camera that can record video as well
- MP3 player
- Preferably a "smart" phone with a big screen

My budget is $350 or so. Any suggestions?

Nokia e70
 

I use an e70 that I initially picked up because I wanted a qwerty keyboard to handle emails. The screen has quite good resolution so I use it to browse the regular web quite a bit. The fact that truphone runs on it (a voip package), was a great draw as well for when I'm abroad, though in reality I usually end up getting by with sms (and I just pick up a local sim for those).

For the past 3-4 months, I've tried using an HTC touch. I thought I'd like the bigger screen for browsing and use the touch screen for palm-style graffiti. I finally switched back yesterday to the nokia. The usability and tactile feedback while typing makes the nokia feel much more usable and the series 60 OS is much more responsive than the windows mobile.

The iphone is extremely attractive with the ipod integration, but I haven't tried one personally because of the att contract.

caveat addendum:
Just re-read the initial post, I should point out that the e70 is triband, not quad band. I travel quite a bit, and don't think quad-band is really necessary... but do know other people who insist upon it based on particular destinations.

For real web browsing the iPhone is really the only option, though it has some well known short comings. The good thing about the iPhone is that it will have 3rd party apps in Feb which means that if Apple hasnt added MMS by then a 3rd party app will, same goes for video recording. The issue about the phone being locked to ATT is significant, I'm traveling abroad over Xmas and New Years so this will be my first real test. Though I must say that when I was using a Treo 650 over seas I never picked up a local SIM because ATT/Cingular's rates were always similar to what I would be paying with a local prepaid.

For my upcoming trip ATTis going to charge me $2.49/min for calls while im in the UAE and $1.29/min while im in Paris. Given the exchange rate i'm not sure I could do better with local SIMs in either location and as a bonus my friends in the US can still call a local number that they already have and reach me where ever I am.

That is probably about 3-4 times the cost of using local SIMs

You think? Even with the exchange rate? When I was in China a couple years ago the local SIM rates were almost exactly what Cingular was going to charge me.

So i should be able to get a local SIM in France that will charge me somewhere between .22 and .29 Euros/min? If so that's interesting, it may be worth taking an unlocked phone along.

Last time I checked in the UK it was about 20 pence (45 cents or so) for Virgin Mobile to call the US. I think Orange is about the same price. Vodafone on the other hand was pound at one point. Not sure what they are now. France and the UK were roughly similar last time I checked. Its just that I can read UK web sites ;)

Well, I know that the Verizon Voyager has a real web browser, just like the iPhone one. Similarily, I read about Opera Mini and how it works on BlackBerries. It seems to offer a pretty similar browsing experience to the iPhone. Didn't Microsoft also come out with a version of IE (maybe named something else) that works like a real browser?

On the other hand.....
 

You should also consider service here at home - if AT-T has lousy service and you absolutely want a GSM phone then your only option is T-Mobile which is not all that much better....You can get Verizon's world phone or what I did was get an unlocked GSM phone (lots of specials around, ebay etc,) get an international SIM or get a Europe based SIM. I have a Virgin SIM from the UK - I have a fixed phone # and just put money on when I travel. You can call or actually text them a specific character set and it adds whatever denomination you text. It works really well, but remember with web services outside the US YMMV big time, as most other countries use 3G while here at home we don't.
It would help if you listed your must haves at home vs your must haves when traveling.

Hmmmm, i'm going to keep looking around, but this site has Orange prepaids for between .39 and .50 Euros, but it's .7 Euros (about $1) for calls back to the US which is what most of the calls I will be making are.

http://intouchsmartcards.com/France_SIM.htm

It's liked by some, but not all. I don't think it has the zooming capabilities of the iPhone though I could be wrong. Also, I think that one is CDMA so it wont be much good outside of the US.

Unless Opera Mini has come a long way in the last 6 months i wouldnt even bother, last time I tried it on my Treo it was terrible. Also, most smartphone dorks will tell you that browsing on a BB is less that useful due to the lack of a touch screen.

This has to be the deciding factor IMHO. If your phone service sucks in your apartment then having service on the same handset in Europe isnt much good. If ATTs service is crap where you are then don't get it. I must be really lucky, i seem to be the only person who hasnt ever had an issue with ATT reception, except when on the metro here in DC.

This is also a big deal. Data on most european carriers is way more expensive than it is here in the US so using data there may not make much sense. Add to that the fact that most european carriers dont have EDGE service so you'll be stuck with GPRS if you dont have a 3G phone and GPRS is just painful. I can't imagine using the full iPhone browser on that connection.

I just added international data for my upcoming trip from ATT which is $24/mo for 20mb, but it's prorated and i'll only have it for 2 weeks at roughly $1/day which is fine by me. I'm assuming I'll be able to use Orange's EDGE network though, if i'm stuck on GPRS i won't be happy.

If the T-Mobile Windows Mobile Promotion is still on, you can get a WING for $15 net.

Or how about an iPAQ 6945 with T-MobileWeb service? You can get a new one on eBay for about your target. I use my 6510 in the U.S. and Europe, and as long as my device is registered on a T-Mobile cell site, I pay $5.99 a month for unlimited web service (it's supposed to be WAP-only, but it's not...shhh).

Pro:

• GSM/GPRS quad-band phone
• GPS
• Field-swappable battery
• Seamless transition between WiFi and GPRS internet
• Windows Mobile 5

Con:

• 2G internet speed. I think it's plenty, since I only use PDA-sized (>WAP) sites anyway.
• 340x340 screen doesn't work with some (stupid) applications, but GMM and Pocket Streets look fine.
• Windows Mobile 5

If you have an ATT international plan it's 99 cents/min.

If you pay them $5.99 a month or fraction, your Europe minute rate "plummets" from $1.29 to 99¢. It takes 20 minutes of calling just to break even.

In AT&T-speak, A FRACTION OF A MONTH means one day, thirty-one days, or anything in between. If you make a call on the 30th of June, through July, and on the 1st of August, you pay $17.97 for the privilege.

All T-Mobile minutes are 99¢ without the extortion.

run
 

RUN don't WALK away from this phone. I now how that sounds, but even being an HP fanboy, this was the worst WINMO device I have ever used. If you really want one, I know where you can get 10+ CHEAP. I would never recommend this phone to anyone, it has no basis for even being alive.

I know the OP doesn't want an iphone, or ATT, but damb, the iphone works so well for these items. Everyday that I use #1 1K GF iphone, I just say, damb, this is one of the best engineered devices I have ever used. The UI is perfect, the interface is perfect, the web browsing is perfect, indeed the keyboard I can type faster than on any other portable device I use, blackberry's, palms, Dash, etc. I'm just waiting for a 3G version, a BIT more openness in the platform, and BT keyboard integration.

If the OP has an old phone to use for a couple of weeks, then the announcements Jan 15-16 at Macworld Expo on improved iPhones (maybe larger capacity but not 3G) might mean a special offer on the current iPhone.

I wonder what % of the share price of Apple between now and then is attributable to it being 'the iPhone company' - and whether this enhances the prospect of a (minor) new model upgrade?


Alternatively, how about the slightly enhanced Blackberry Pearl, or new qwerty BB models?

the motorola q9h seems to match most of your needs.

its sold in europe as well as att. i presume att has it sim-locked but i'd bet the ones in europe aren't. rumor has it that there's a wifi version in the works. the screen is larger than usual phones but it sure isnt your pc.

Rumor has it that the iPhone will go 3G sometime next year. Here's one rumor
http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/29/a...-it-next-year/
I'm waiting for GPS on the iPhone. I also want more than 16GB (bigger IS always better) I'll have to wait for both of those.

It actually depends where you are. I checked into that plan and for $5.99/mo it will get you discounts on international fares, but for UAE it was still going to be $2.29/min and Paris was $1 i believe. I still may pick that plan up, just wanted to do some math on it first. I expect that they will prorate that plan as well.

a 3G iPhone next year isn't a rumor, both Steve Jobs and Randall Stephenson have publicly stated that the 3G iPhone will be released "next year." In Apple-speak this probably means late Q3 or Q4 of next year so while we may see capacity increases in the iPhone at MacWorld we certainly wont see 3G there and even capacity increases arent a given. That said, if youre in the market and you don't need to buy before mid-Jan there is no reason not to wait. Steve said that they want to get 5 hours of use out of a 3G version before they release one, so either the 3G chips/radios need to stop sucking juice so damn fast, battery technology needs to get better or both.

unlocked phone with local pre paid sims
 

I also live in the NE and the ATT service where I am at is terrible. That is why I dropped them and never looked back. Since I am on Verizon I needed a 2nd phone for international. I only use the phone for talking so my presepective may be different, for Internet service I use the hotel or my local office (if hotel is not free).

What I have been doing is buying prepaid SIM cards. I just came back from a week in Singapore all call to the US everyday multiple times and never used all of the initial cost (20 SGD). What you need to do is check to see if the carrier has a low cost dialing option. In the case of SinTel it was 019 dialing this reduced the cost significantly. So for about 14 USD I made 30 or so calls back to the US.

IMHO, this is the way to go.

Don't know if this would be of benefit. But I travel quite frequently to Japan and carry my laptop. During my recent trip the hotels I stayed at all had either free HiSpeed Internet or some small fee ($10 for 24Hours). I used "Skype" to make all my calls to home and my co-workers at next to nothing cost. Not to mention being able to surf at the same time and also 2-way video with the family. Might work out a little cheaper unless you absolutely have to have a cell for when you are on the move when not at your hotel. Just thought I would throw that out....

Bill......:)

Sounds like the ATT Tilt is what you want. $199 through Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/AT-T-Tilt-Smar...8160843&sr=8-1

3MP (video)camera, 3G Quadband, "real" browser, GPS and much more.

IMHO the best value smartphone available at the moment.

I have both an iPAQ and a Wing. I prefer the iPAQ for a number of reasons. In fact, I listed the Wing on eBay. But before you take one poster's opinion as fact, read all the reviews you can find.

Well, you know what they say about opinions...so here's mine. If you can get a Tilt for $15, go for it. It's a nice unit.

Otherwise: You have to be willing to put up with The Death Star's abominable business practices and "Customer Service" to get the $199 price.

But don't take one poster's opinion as fact - read as many reviews of AT&T and T-Mo as cellular carriers as you can get your hands on. Personally, I think it would be extremely short-sighted to get locked up by AT&T just for the sake of the Tilt deal. They HAVE to make juicy offers like that just to offset their abysmal reputation.

Update: as of this writing, AT&T is offering a discount that makes the net price $174.99 - sounds kinda desperate to me.

As opposed to all those carriers with great reputations :p

Seriously, every US carrier sucks for one reason or another.

I see other carriers with operational issues that they're addressing as expeditiously as possible - but unlike their competitors', AT&T's problems are SYSTEMIC and ENDEMIC and the result of their corporate culture and policies.

I like the HTC Kaiser (Branded as the ATT Tilt). It's more of a fun phone than a blackberry and has better reception than them. It'll work in the basement where I work while no other AT+T phone will.

AT&T fine for me
 

Love these comments about one carrier over another. I'm sure call quality differs in some areas among carriers and that's a rational reason for a choice. But most of the comments seem about equal to "Apple vs. Microsoft" level and life is too short for those.

I've used Cingular/AT&T for about five years now. Based in Michigan. Works fine throughout the state... and on trips to Houston, San Francisco, San Diego, Orlando/Daytona Beach, Chicago, NYC and various other places. Don't remember the last trip to Boston to say.

Knock on wood, but I've never had to test customer service with a problem. So I'll go merrily along until I hit that speed bump.

Meh, i guess. I've never had a issue with reception and i was really pleased with the customer service the only time i had to use it. YMMV.

Apple is suited to right-brained people, Microsoft to left-brained. They're about on a par technologically.

This isn't about coverage. It's about intransigence at the corporate policy level. AT&T's reputation for sucking is well-deserved IMO, and the others are all pretty good.

You'll know when you do. You'll also pay obscene rates for basic data services.

By "real" browser, do you mean one that will work like the browser on the iPhone or the Voyager? I ask because my buddy has the newest HTC model from Sprint and it has a WAP browser (meaning a lot of sideways scrolling, as it's unable to resize pages to the size of the small screen and then allow easy zoom-ins, like the iPhone's Safari browser).

As for customer service, I really don't think one company will be better than the other. Most people complain about Sprint. I've had them for years, and they're fine...I'm sure others aren't any better or worse. Not really an issue for me right now.

All current HTC phones have a REAL internet browser. On the 2 current Sprint models (the Mogul and Touch) you get Pocket Internet Explorer. It's not as polished as the browser on the iPhone, but if you add Opera to the phone you get something pretty damn close. There are other browser options as well (Netfront is pretty decent) that will give you the desktop view option that the iPhone offers. But honestly, none of them are really as good as the iPhone, but that really is the only strong feature of the iPhone IMHO.

$20/mo for unlimited data from ATT seems reasonable.

ATT&T Tilt or Original HTC version?
 

For Scott or anyone else who has compared them... given the price differential between the AT&T Tilt phone and the "original" under the HTC brand, has AT&T changed features to the point where it might make sense to spend the extra money and get the phone under HTC and then use an AT&T SIM card?

I've read the information on each and some reviews and comments elsewhere, but the answer isn't yet clear to me. Have noted the comments abous various bloatware elements added by AT&T. Can these be easily removed?

Any insights appreciated.

The bloatware can be removed and afaik the only difference is the lack of a front facing camera (which is pretty useless anyway).

The price difference is quite high, an unlocked TyTn runs around $650 and the ATT Tilt can be found for under $200. That $450 can pay for quite a few months of service.

Indeed it will... and thus glad to hear that we're talking about the same functionality, especially after the excess software is removed. No need to throw money without a purpose. Thanks, Scott.

I'm not sure how much data factors in to this person's plans, but I'd note that the UAE is not one of the countries listed in ATT's iphone international plans. The iPhone international plan is tempting and is the one thing that makes an iPhone tempting. I've even considered buying an iPhone for those plans and jailbreaking and ditching the iPhone on Ebay.

Du which is the new mobile carrier in the UAE is offering a traveler's SIM which is good for 90 days for about 40dhms (apx $USD11). All but 1dhm (USD$0.27) is credit. If you add a favorite nation plan on, calls to the US are roughly $US0.35. Incoming calls are free. I don't think the OP's math is correct. Moreover, the Dirham is pegged to the dollar so bad exchange rates are irrelevant.


Data on a phone is high in the UAE, but Du is half the price of the incumbent carrier Etisilat and both are cheaper than ATT's $15 a meg for the UAE.

After you clear customs and the luggage return at the Dubai airport, you go down a long hall with car rental places and hotels before you enter the greeter area. The Du booth is at the end of this selection. If you want an unlocked phone, Dubai is a great place to buy one.

If data is not important to you, look at a roaming SIM. If you buy an 09 SIM (www.09.is), you can get free calls inbound calls in both countries if people call your Iceland number. If you then buy a US 800 number from callbackworld, you can forward it to the 09 number for US $0.15 a minute. You can also trigger outbound callbacks to the US for $0.15 a minute, but roaming SIMs require a two stage callback. I usually trigger them from a second phone.

The CETC P168 is cheap Chinese quadband phone with web browsing and two SIMs. You can flip between the two SIMs with a simple software command. The SIMs, are unfortunately, not live at the same time.

Here is a link to that phone. It might look familiar:

http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/402537...ogy_Co_Ltd.jpg

It goes for around $125 in many stores.

I personally own an HTC Tytn and think it is a great phone. I upgraded it to the Schapps ROM so it very similar to a tilt.

Think so? Okay, but I'm too used to getting unlimited WAP (which is what MEdia is) for $5.99 - and due to a "characteristic" of the T-Mobile network, in Europe I get the same service at no additional cost as long as my phone is registered on a T-Mo cell site (easy in Germany and UK, harder in France and BeNeLux).

AT&T doesn't hold a candle to T-Mo on any pricing. Their Europe roaming is a travesty.

WAP is not something im interested it. I regularly use 400mb-800mb of data in a month on the EDGE network and $20/mo is pretty much the industry's cheapest unlimited data plan in the world. If I were to switch to t-mobile right now it looks like their unlimited data is $40/mo. You're probably grandfathered in on a cheaper rate as that is standard practice. Beyond that, I have no interest in t-mobile as their coverage in the US wouldn't work for me. While i do travel abroad more than most, 85-90% of my time is in the US so that's where i need the best service.

t-mobile coverage

ATT coverage

I just did some quick research on this claim too. Comparing an iPhone family plan at ATT with a comparable BB family plan at t-mobile. With the largest iPhone family plan you get 2100 daytime minutes, rollover minutes, unlimited data and email and 200 SMS messages for $150/mo. Building a similar family plan at t-mobile gets me 2000 mins, no rollover and 400 txt message for $110, then add unlimited data and email for the BBs for $20/mo and the price difference is $20/mo or a whopping $240/year. No that big a savings and ATTs coverage is more extensive in the US.