Another TiVo thread...
 

I live in Canada, and it's been announced that TiVos are now 'officially' available here. (Hacked TiVos have been available for a while.)

I've always been keen on them, but I'd be interested in hearing about the pros and cons from others. Some initial comments / questions -

1) The cheapest subscription plan is still $299 for three years. This still strikes me as an expensive way to get the TV listings.

2) I'm sure from time-to-time we'd like to watch TiVoed content on the bedroom TV. What's the cheapest way to do this.

Any other gotchas I should know?

[I know I could build a PC-based PVR, but I get the sense the TIVO UI is more user-friendly (read wife-friendly), and the TIVO is quieter than a PC in the living room.]

You are aware that the new "legit" Tivo for Canada is just the Series2? No Series3 or TivoHD is available at this point.

You really only have 3 ways of getting Tivo content from one room to the other.

1) Buy another Tivo and use Multi room viewing (I am not a fan of this as it means a large investment in another unit AND discounted subscription)

2) Use a video transmitter (bad quality most of the time, unless you get a (very) expensive one)

3) Use existing Coax and add an AVCAST kit like these. These send the signal AND ir signals over existing coax. This is what I use.

Yes $299 is expensive. I've been a subscriber for years and pay $6.95/month with them for my S3. But to be honest, they could change it to $20 and I'd still pay it. I like it THAT much. It's far more than just the TV guides. It's season passes, suggestions, online scheduling, TivoToGo etc...

Tivo is the one product I'd replace within an hour if it ever died on me.

Yup. ^
I'm at the $6.95 plan too, and kick myself for not going for the $199 lifetime when I bought my Tivo DVD-r unit 3 years ago. I agree with Scott, it's worth several multiples of what I pay.

I'm not as much of a vidiot as the rest of my family--but even for me, TIVO has become sort of like electricity and running water--hard to imagine civilized life without it. Certainly hard to imagine TV without it. I've had a Series 2 with a lifetime subscription to the service (no longer offered--more below) for 4-5 years now, after being persuaded by a TIVO zealot from my office (who owns three of them) how great they are; I got ours primarily for the wife and kids, but came to appreciate that time-shifting makes for watching all kinds of things you otherwise wouldn't even know exist. And therein lies the rub--be prepared for a LOT more video watching by everyone in the house, and competition for TIVO hard disk space...

We liked TIVO so much that, when I recently got an emailed offer (targeted to existing subscribers, and maybe lifetime subscribers) for a TIVO HD, I bit. We've had HD TV and a 50" plasma for 2-3 years now, and the Series 2 is ok, but doesn't do HD justice, and apart from that, the Series 2 is just not great with a screen of that size. I'd been holding out for a suitable HD model (and the HD I'm getting is a slightly lower end version of the Series 3), not wanting to pay another monthly bill, and was rewarded for my patience--though you may not think so, when I tell you that the cost of a lifetime HD subscription is $399 (that on top of the $300 cost for the HD box). Worth every penny. And not only that, we can pass on our Series 2 WITH its existing lifetime subscription to the mother-in-law, who's currently TIVO-impaired like yourself.

Is $299 for 3 years worth it? I think so. I got in under the wire with the lifetime subscription for my series 2 and am damn glad I did--as it may be why we got the lifetime offer for the HD box--but you might check the TIVO blogs and newsgroups, as it may be that the lifetime subscriptions are more readily available than I think.

It's a lot more than a TV guide; while I don't have the religious feeling about it some (such as my work colleague) do, it is way up there as far as great home entertainment technology goes, and I wouldn't go back, even if I had to live with a monthly subscription. Comparing it to PC based DVRs is laughable. Even our Comcast DVR (for which we do pay a monthly) is way lame in capability compared to TIVO--we only got it to be able to record a few things in HD--but we'll return it when the TIVO HD arrives in a few days, as TIVO HD can do everything the Comcast hardware did (including serving as a cable box) and more.

Can't help with the room-to-room much, although I did use "TIVO to go" for a while with the laptop, with good results; I also figured out how to burn TIVO recordings to DVD, but never did it enough to say it was a no-brainer. A friend of mine often sends me his TIVO recordings on VHS, so the transferring from a TIVO to a VHS is relatively easy, if that helps.

So--try it, you'll like it--except for maybe the increased video consumption and competition around the household...

Same here - anytime my wife and I are somewhere without a Tivo, she's bugging me to fast-forward through commercials. :)

I've got one of the Series2 Tivos with the integrated DVD burner, but I actually have hacked my Tivo to add some functionality:

* Uncrippled transfers from the Tivo to my PC (the Tivo normally encrypts TivoToGo downloads, which results in transfers of around 0.8MB/sec). I can download at 1.9MB/sec. On the PC, I can chop commercials and then output to DVD much faster.
* Added a webserver so that I can access/control the Tivo from anywhere, in case I want to record something - no mucking around with Tivo's online scheduling too.

With older Tivos (ie, your Tivo service number starts with something <5), this can be done by taking the Tivo hard drive and putting it in a PC with a special linux boot CD. With newer Tivos (including current Series2.5, Series3/HD), you have to unsolder and reprogram a PROM.

To each his own, of course. I find that the HTPC I built for $100 does everything I want a PVR to do - time-shifting, commercial-skipping, pause, replay, all that stuff. I've always thought that laying out several hundred dollars (even at a "pennies per day" rate forever) for a bunch of features most people never use is what's laughable. Plus, my MediaPortal rig gets me a PC with an 80" screen in the Family Room, contains all my CDs, tapes, and LPs, and serves as a handy slide show setup.

p.s. In response to the above assertion that PC solutions are noisy - I would challenge you to locate my system aurally. It's in an Antec NSK1300 case that's barely audible even in a completely quiet room.

Thanks everyone for the feedback so far... Wasn't there some business a while back where TiVo was going to cripple (or had crippled) the ability to fast-forward through commercials? Or that they were going to insert their own commercials instead? Has that gone away?

>I find that the HTPC I built for $100 does everything...
>...It's in an Antec NSK1300 case that's barely audible

Not to seem skeptical, but how did you build this for $100? A hard drive + the NSK case must be over $100 right there, and that's before you add a motherboard, RAM, video capture card, wireless keyboard, mouse and remote control.... and whatever else I've forgotten, plus your time to twiddle with linux, install Myth TV etc. etc. etc.

Cheers,
Geoff Glave
Vancouver, Canada

Here's what I've seen as far as "added ads" on my Tivo:

Some commercials are "tagged" with a "Press ^ to get more info" button. If you do, it downloads an ad. On the positive side, when the TV networks run an ad for another show, the ^ can be used to record the episode. These will also pop up (albeit briefly) when fast-forwarding.

Supposedly, they've got the ability to overlay something while fast-forwarding, but I've never seen it.

At the end of a show, on the "keep or delete" popup screen, there may be a link to have Tivo download an ad.

On the Home screen, there may be an ad.

I've never been unable to fast-forward a show.

Sorry for my lack of clarity. The HT part was $100 - I already had the PC. I added a Pinnacle ATSC Tuner/capture card (with TV remote) for $50, and the case was $40 after rebate at Fry's.

As far as the software - it took a few minutes to download and install MediaPortal into an XPSP2 system and I was up and running.

I have one of the video extender units that ScottC makes mention of. You do get a little bit of static on those, particularly if you're walking about the room, but overall quite watchable. I don't think it was more than $100. I also have a remote control extender that can control the TIVO functions.

I have two TIVOs that are networked, and the biggest benefit I find is storing content on external hard drives to watch later (though I can replace the internal hard drives to accomplish the same thing). I'll record an entire series of a specific TV program, and then wait until the summer, when everything is in reruns, to watch it all at once. This year I've finally caught up with the 4th season of 24, which I watched over a 2 week span, with season 5 still stored. I bring a lot of these programs along on the laptop when I travel.

I regularly move content back and forth between the two machines depending what TV room I'm in (living room vs den) and where I want to view the program.

One of the best sources of information, pro and con, is the TIVO community bulletin board:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/

My hat's off to you, CessnaJock; I have no doubt you've done better for yourself, and for a lot less, than a TIVO could do. In my situation, I strongly suspect that although I like to think I could have made a PC solution work for me, it very likely would not have worked for the rest of my family (who are less than tech savvy). Too, having too many things to do and too little time to do them, leaving the engineering to TIVO rather than having another DIY project made more economic sense for me.

That's exactly what people with cable company DVRs say.

"Yes, I have TiVo .. I have a cable company DVR .. it's the same thing, right?"

I'm glad you're happy with your solution.

BTW, there was an announcement today from TiVo and Nero about supporting tivo software/service for people with HTPCs or something like that. Now, that might be interesting. Here it is:

http://investor.tivo.com/releasedeta...leaseID=278927

-David

At the moment I have six televisions and six Tivos. I would never watch a program without a Tivo.

I used to think the lifetime subscriptions were a good deal and always bought them, but at $6.95 per month the cost is about equal after three years to the cost of the $199 lifetime. Plus, after three years there is probably a better model I would want to purchase anyway. At $299 lifetime it definitely isn't worth it.

I've been seriously thinking about upgrading to the HD Tivo but am still waiting for a good sale.

Well you could hook up a Slingbox to the Tivo and watch the Tivo in the bedroom on a laptop or a monitor connected to a PC. I do this at my house. Excellent video quality.

I expect to see all TiVo functionality in open source in due course. Maybe by the time it surfaces, I'll have tapped into some deep unacknowledged need for more television than I could possibly sit through, enjoy, or care about.

I don't care about THX, my stereo equipment is ancient, but I do have a 42" Sony Bravia 1080p. Now that I have dumped Dish and am with RCN, I am going to get a Tivo (before that I had a DirecTv Tivo).

So which do I need?

Tivo HD or Tivo Series 3. Again, I don't care about THX. And RCN will send me a M cable card, which I heard only works in the Tivo HD?

Thanks. Answer quick? so I can return to the land of Tivo
!!!I HATE THE RCN DVR!!!

Series3 and Tivo HD are two names for the same thing.

So get either. :)

Series 3 is quite different. It comes with a 250GB drive instead of 160GB, it can take any eSATA drive for example, plus it comes with a nifty backlit remote. That said, if I am not mistaken, TiVo has discontinued it...

Apparently, TIVO is only selling the Tivo HD.

So I can get it direct refurb from the Tivo website for 179USD. Any better deals?

Tivo has been out of stock for series3 for months. I bought 2 elsewhere. Try pricegrabber.com for both new and refurb units.

MisterNice

Ah, then Wikipedia was wrong (or I read it wrong). Shocking! :)

What a depressing thread!

I LOVE Tivo! But they only sold the Tivo Series 1 in the UK for a short while before pulling out. The Tivo can still get the full Tivo Service thankfully but as I have moved to an HD Plasma my Tivo hardly gets used as the connectivity doesn't do the rest of my kit justice.

Tivo US...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE relaunch back in to the UK! I hear rumours they may launch a Freesat Tivo box so fingers crossed that rumour is true!

I don't have a home phone line.

Any recommendation on whether to get some USB wireless adaptor or some sort of powerline adaptor?

I always had trouble getting powerline ethernet to work - they have to be on the same circuit, there couldn't be too much wiring between them, etc. USB wifi is easy.

Only certain USB wifi adapters work with Tivo, however. If you want 802.11g and/or WPA encryption support, you have to buy the Tivo brand USB wireless adapter. ($40 from Amazon; $60 from tivo.com)

If you just want 802.11b and/or WEP, you can get any of the list of supported ones for your model Tivo on tivo.com.

HD and S3 can take any esata drive, but the tivo software won't do it automatically on the HD for anything besides the supported esata drive. Anyway, it's still doable, just not as easy. I don't remember if you have to open the box or not, but if you do, you might as well just install an internal 1TB drive and forget about expansion via the esata port on the HD. (Once you expand the internal drive, I don't think it will do any automatic expansion via the esata port any more.) Anyway, there's an esata expansion FAQ in the tivo community forums in the S3 forum there. You can go read that if you want all the details.

HD supports M-cards in multi-stream mode. S3 can only do one channel per S or M card.

If you really want the backlit remote, you can buy it separately.

Chichow, if you need to use a single M-card, you will need the HD. They could send you two cards (M or S) if you get the S3 though, but they may charge you more for it.

Anyway, there are benefits to both the HD and the S3. I don't remember all the other differences. IIRC, I think the HD supports more total disk space than the S3. The S3 may have a 2 TB limit.

I have an S3, since before the HD was available.

Also, for the HD and S3 (and most modern tivos), only the Tivo USB wifi adapter is supported. They dropped support for other usb network adapters. I have it and it works fine. As stated, you can find it discounted on amazon.com. Both of these also have built in wired networking. That means that if you have a spare wireless bridge around (or one of the routers that can be turned into a bridge with a firmware change), you can also use that, if you need wireless.

-David

I have the opposite experience. I couldn't get a wireless to work for anything, despite line of sight from the wireless adapter fifteen feet to the wireless router. I switched to a Homelink system, and it has worked with no glitches, save I can't access my photos on my computer. I now have my Tivo in the basement, and router upstairs and it still works.