Why does Cingular do dumb things?
 

I have been a customer of Cingular (nee AT&T Wireless) for about 12 years. I have to phones with them and spend about $400/month. I have decided I will get one of those smart phones--a Blackberry or something like that. I settled on a Treo 750: they're new, they have everything, I have colleagues in Europe who love it, I like it. Since I bought two phones with Cingular in March, I am not entitled to an upgrade.

So, for new customers, they get to pay $499.99, with a $100 rebate and a two year contact. Since I have a two-year contact on an existing phone, I get to pay $649.99 (I think I get a rebate, but am not sure). The $150 difference is exactly the charge for me to exit my existing contract.

I have never thought about switching to another carrier until today. I plan to switch one phone--the one that runs a bill of $350; the other phone is used for personal calls. I don't understand why Cingular doesn't give a better deal to its existing customers.

At the moment, no other companies offer the Treo 750. That's not a big deal to me. I need to find a smart device that is GSM capable, has Windows, and can do e-mail. So, I guess I am now left with research Verizon, T-Mobile and Sprint/Nextel. This Forum is a great help in my search.

I was another longtime AT&T Wireless customer who was essentially driven away by the ridiculously onerous and difficult plans offered when I wanted to simply get an updated phone and move to the Cingular plan that best matched my old AT&T plan. I moved to T-Mobile and haven't looked back.

I would definitely call Cingular customer service again and this time, escalate the call to a Manager. Let him/her know everything you said in this post, especially the fact that you've been a customer for 12 years and that you pay about $400 per month. That makes you a very special customer in their eyes. If the Manager is not willing to give you the new customer deal, then escalate the call one level up. You'll be speaking to an Area Manager. And if that doesn't work, write a letter to the CEO, Stan Sigman in Atlanta. Make sure you tell them all that you will be looking into a competitior if you do not get satisfaction.

I know it sounds like a hassle, but Cingular does not want to lose a customer like you. Good luck and please keep us posted as to the outcome.

Seems like an awful lot of work just to get them to appreciate you.

FWIW; T-mobile is pretty generous in their phone upgrades AND for high-yield customers they have a special "secret" program, the T-mobile retentions department will often reward their best customers for staying with cheap/free phones and free months of service.

OT: How do you manage to run up a bill of $350 on a personal phone?

I have close to unlimited calls... and I still dont manage to get that close.



For phones, I generally buy them on my own when they are in the market
for a bit and dont cost as much.. and try not to keep the contract with
the provider. (ie. not renew the contract once its over)

But I never had to switch a vendor because of this in a while now.

Thanks for the feedback.

I used to be very dogged about escalating things, but as of late, I just couldn't be bother. If someone else is offering something similar, I'd jump. I guess that Cingular has its policies, etc., but it would seem to be a no brainer for them to sell me a new phone at a competitive price--my guess is that, since I will use the thing for e-mail in the US and Europe, I imagine I will be spending more money. My attitude is that if they want me to work to stay with them, I'd rather they work to replace me. Maybe I'll send them an ultimatum!

There's no way I am taking time away from FT to pressure Cingular!

I have a personal and business phone on the same account. The business phone is the only that runs up the $300 to $500 bill each month. I call overseas a lot; and I call from Europe to the US quite often too. I suspect that its profitable for Cingular when I call Europe, but I don't know if they get much when I call from overseas.

I didn't look at any of the "e-mail" plans, but I have to believe they would have tacked on a lot of additional charges when I started using e-mail.

I think the 350 dollar bill is for the non-personal phone. I'd guess when used abroad, etc., it's not that hard... Still probably worth having the phone unlocked, if not done already.

I have lately bought unlocked phones, because I don't want to give up my ATT plan from the fall of 2004. Non of the new plans are anywhere near as generous.

Normally, cellular companies want you in contract for as long as possible because the price of the phone is subsidized. That is why you can't switch phones at the discounted price every few months. I'd think that in the OP's situation, though, they'd want to keep you. Doesn't hurt to speak to a manager, though you could jump ship for a while to T-mobile and come back later if you like.

The early termination fee becomes moot when your bills are as large as yours. The fee is less than one month's bill!

fuzz

Here's how to get out of a Cingular contract:

http://consumerist.com/consumer/cons...use-228186.php

http://consumerist.com/consumer/cons...dum-228491.php

Trust me, they get a lot when you call from overseas. I use a service based
out of another country (A regular GSM phone with international roaming)
what I pay = (amount charges by the roaming partner + 15% surcharge)
Its much cheaper compared to any other vendor based in US or UK.

Based on this, I can see my vendor makes 15% and may be a little bit
here and there.... But I suspect US based providers make a lot more.
They may even pay less charges to the roaming partners based on some
volume deals.

IIRC there are some Email/web plans on a PDA device for about $70 +/- with unlimited international roaming. Might want to look into it.

Actually, here's the thing I pointed out to them. If I stay with Cingular and buy a Palm Treo 750, I have to spend $650--something like that. New customers get to pay $400. The termination fee is $150. So, if I go to another company and get a Blackberry, it's a cheaper option (though, in fairiness, this decision isn't been driven by the phone price or termination fee); the $250 to stay with Cingular seemed dumb. The person I spoke to said he had to talk to someone about this price difference, but he disappeared for ten minutes and I gave up and just hung up.

Clearly you are less price-sensitive than most of us.
You should consider getting a new smart-phone or PDA type of device (Treo or Blackberry etc.) on a separate phone number from your voice service, on a new data-only plan. You want it to operate in Europe, so you need to look at T-Mobile or Cingular because they use GSM technology. You want the unlimited Internet data-only plan, which only covers US operations. Foreign operations will be at additional (roaming) charges. Usually T-Mobile is much less expensive than Cingular for US data-only plans. But for the device itself, you need to do a little research and even have some of the devices demonstrated for you to see which is most comfortable.

Thanks for these links, I will read through them.

Also keep in mind that T-Mobile will generally unlock your phone after a few months. The procedure is painless - you call them and just state that you want to use the phone overseas, and they e-mail you a code and instructions.

Did you try calling the retention department during DAYTIME HOURS (at night you'll only get India) and tell 'em you're switching to T-Mobile? Basically, follow the prompts to get there.

You can BS about what T-Mobile is offering you, just make sure it's reasonable. I got 4 free razrs that way.

Having called Cingular regarding some minor issues in the past, I wonder if they employ any agent who would understand even 50% of this. Nobody who's ever dealt with them (or any call center for that matter) could seriously expect this to work?!

Terrific ^ Do you happen to have one for Sprint? :)

They have reports from a number of people who have gotten it to work. Obviously in some cases it's going to require more persistence, but most of us are used to that ;)

They have them for a number of companies:

http://tags.consumerist.com/consumer...mination-fees/

Seems like there not much for Sprint at the moment:

http://tags.consumerist.com/consumer/sprint/

The top link in that one does have a guy who got out of his contract by writing an extensive e-mail to the CEO providing free analysis of the business in exchange for termination of his contract. Not sure that you want to go that far ;)

Cingular also will unlock phones. Most of the newer PDA/Smartphones can be unlocked also.

On a side note, if you do follow the links to break the contract and flip to month to month. Consider getting the phone through Amazon. Their rebates are typically much greater than anyone else.

As an example, I am considering the Cingular Blackjack on Amazon - Price
After Rebates: $9.99

Cingular.com Your Price $199.99


http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-i607-B...094356-9642521

http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-s...questid=139947

You'll find that all cell phone providers do the same thing, and their reasoning is actually fairly sound. The cost of the Treo is $650 - for new customers or existing customers. To entice people to sign with Cingular they'll give you a discount on the phone, but force you to sign a 2 year contract.

Some of the money you pay Cingular every month goes to cover the cost of your phone... by the end of your two year contract you'll have paid the $150 difference. At that point you'll be elegible for another discounted upgrade and have to sign another two year contract.

Every phone Cingular sells is that way. Take a look at the price tags in the store... the big cheap price is for new customers, or customers that have made it through their two year contract and are elegible for the upgrade. In the fine print you'll see a higher cost for people who want to sign a 1 year contract (because they'll pay less toward the phone during that one year) and an even higher cost for people who are not elegible for an upgrade, or want to buy the phone with no contract.

In short, since you last upgraded your phones in March you haven't finished paying for them yet, so you can't get another discount on a new phone. You'll find that ever Cell phone provider will have the same rules.

Cingular is usually pretty good, and when I had a phone fail about 6 months before my two year contract ended I called and spoke with the agents and they were willing to let me upgrade at the cheap price even though I still had some time on my contract. You have more than half of a two year contract left, however, so I would be surprised if you can work out that deal.

The other option is what Cingular calls an "exception upgrade". They will let you upgrade your phone at the one year contract price (which will be more than the cheap price in big print, but less than the $650 you were quoted), however, you will still need to sign a two year contract. I think you have a good chance of getting this deal.

HTH,
Brett

I'd better get working on that MBA!

I know the business model that the cell phone companies follow. However, I'd argue that I have certainly generated sufficient profit for Cingular to cover the costs of the phones I bought in March. To make matters worse, the company had a mail in rebate on $100 on each phone. I completed the paper work and returned it to the appropriate address. I followed up six to eight weeks later (something like that) and discovered that I wasn't eligible for the rebate. Here's the reasoning. I bought the phones when I was at a conference in New York. (I had forty minutes to kill, so I went into a Cingular store and took care of things there). Because I am resident in CA, I wasn't entitled to the rebate. It took three calls to come to this conclusion. I was able to check with a local Cingular store. They were offering the same rebate ($100) on identical phones to the one I bought. Apparently, Cingular divvies up the country in ways that customers have to understand. I didn't get the rebates.

I'll give an update in a minute as to what happened with my Treo 750 deal.

Before I headed out to dinner, I did what you suggested and gave Cingular one last chance. I found the T-Mobile phone I wanted on the web; I knew the prices of the Cingular phone (Treo 750) for a new and current customer.

When I got the first guy on the phone, I asked to speak to someone in the customer retention department. He told me he could deal with it. I gave him the issue and the bottom line: it's better value for me to switch to T-Mobile. He did tell me that he wasn't authorized to do anything, so he sent me off to customer service. I got to tell the story again.

The bottom line was I am being asked to pay $650 as an existing customer where new people get to pay $400. Since I am on the verge of switching to T-Mobile, I have identified a phone that costs only $250. She checked the account and saw the issue immediately. Since she couldn't offer me the contract for a new customer, she offered to credit the account for the difference, $250, so I could go and buy the phone at a Cingular store. Not bad. The only little problem was that since the phone number is from the east coast, someone in a different office has to approve it--and they were closed. So she annotated the account, so I could call them tomorrow and get the rebate.

I will try tomorrow. If the rebate comes through, I will go to a Cingular store, if it doesn't I am off to T-Mobile!

Now have the $250 credit
 

I spoke to someone in Oklahoma City today and he put a credit for $250 onto my account. I logged to to check: it's there.

When I asked him why it was such a hassle to get this done, he explained that there was a problem in Oklahoma yesterday: weather. Lots of people went home early. Apparently, had it been opened, I would have been connected there and the issue would have been resolved on the first call!

Now I am off to get the phone; I will report back what happens.

I have a small company with T-Mobile and another that uses Verizon. A T-Moblie business sales rep has come to our office to demonstrate Blackberries and Treos before we purchased, helped set up the email account, and is available to help us with questions. I'm salivating after the iphone or whatever it will be called after the Cisco lawsuit, but switching to Cingular would be a big cost.

Earlier this evening, I headed off to a Cingular store in the neighborhood. I didn't return to the one I visited on Friday, because the parking lot was full. I bought the Palm Treo 750, two car chargers, an extra wall charger and a Blue Tooth head set. The entire bill came to something like $900. The net price for the phone is $400. I signed up for an unlimited e-mail package.

The phone, or whatever they call it, is charging at the moment. I was told it had to charge for eight hours, so it will be ready soon. I can't wait to start using it.

I was a former AT&T Cingular customer until yesterday. Someone stole my old, busted up phone. I had another of the same phones, with an AT&T sim that used to be assigned to my wife. Cingular told me they couldn't reassign the sim to me, and suggested I go to the store and buy a new sim.

At the Cingular store, I was told that because they no longer have AT&T sims, I would have to sign up for a new 2 yr contract, and buy a new cingular phone and sim. I told the salesman what I really wanted was an iphone, so I'd just take the sim and buy an unlocked phone to tide me over until the iphone come out. He explained that I wouldn't be eligible for the upgrade price if I didn't buy a phone now. He suggested I call customer care and see if they could offer me anything.

The thought of spending time on the phone with Cingular's reps and working to remain their customer just seemed silly to me. I went to Amazon, bought a Blackberry Pearl for $50 (free after rebate), and switched to T-Mobile.

Just FYI, I'm fairly sure those Amazon prices are usually only for new customers, not for existing customers extending contracts.

I had a phone stolen recently also but my experience with Cingular was much different...
I went into the store expecting to use the insurance that I pay for (is insurance a suckers bet?)they said I would have to pay 50.00 deductible and they would next day a similar phone to me.
I mentioned that I had an older phone and could I just have a new sim card put in?
Sure no problem just let us see your ID.
Umm wallet was stolen too.
No problem, checked their files and found a copy of my contract and 5 minutes later I was on my way with a working phone. Couldn't have been easier.
But I did go to the cingular place where I have bought all of my phones for the past 10 years.

I have had T-Mobile for 3 months with a Blackberry Pearl which I loved and spent about $500 each month on International roaming (the client told me not bother with buying an International SIM because they did want the hassle of dialing an International number to reach me at their remote locations). At the end of the day the client thought this was worth it to them because they wanted to get a hold of me easily from their local office dialing my local cell phone number.

The other day being a big gadget freak and loving the fact the DASH has WI-FI I had to get it. I was in a T-Mobile store and told him I only had service for about 3-months. He looked at my account and said because of spending it wasn't a problem he could give me the same rate for the phone, I did have to renew my contract but to me that wasn't a big deal since T-Mobile has treated me pretty good (I called their customer service overseas for a few issues which they were excellent in resolving).

I've had the the Palm Treo 750 for a week now. I like it. Since I traveled to Europe on Sunday and got back yesterday, I haven't had a chance to set up e-mail; however, that's next on the list to do this evening.

I must admit, I am simply amazed at how much this phone can do. The lady that sold it to me was about to go on a break, so she didn't show me anything--it turns out to be a good thing, as I had to figure it all out for myself. (For example: the TTD/TTY box was checked, so it took me two days to figure out how to actually make a phone call without using the plug-in headset).

I am pleased with how things worked out.

The dumbest thing Cingular did was stick with EDGE for so long. I bought a Treo 700p with Sprint and quit Cingular because they're so far behind on 3G it's not even funny.

I have been a cingular customer for over 9 years. I recently went to upgrade my phone one with 3G technology. I had a 2 year contract that ended 5 months away. I was told that I could upgrade and sign a new 2yr contract....

I'll wager that the big reason your experience was so much different (and better) than Murphy's was because you are on a Cingular plan with a Cingular SIM card, while it sounds like Murphy was on a former AT&T Wireless plan with a former AT&T SIM card.

Cingular has been actively pushing to migrate the former AT&T customers to Cingular plans that are in many ways less generous than the plans AT&T offered (e.g., AT&T offered free incoming text messages; not only did Cingular not offer its own customers free incoming texts, it began charging former AT&T customers 15 cents per incoming message).

Part of the push is, as Murphy found, preventing former AT&T customers who lose their SIM cards (or have them stolen) from simply buying new ones; instead, Cingular is requiring those former AT&T customers to sign up for Cingular plans as if they were new customers.

The problem that I see in Cingular's logic, however, is that once I'm forced to switch service plans, I might as well consider other companies alongside Cingular -- and could very well sign up with T-Mobile, Verizon, or Sprint.

Wow, this is all great information. I wish I could add something other then to say THANKS to everyone for great advice.^ ^ ^