PC to Mac Switch
 

I'm planning to replace my five year old Dell Dimension with an Intel based Mac. Given that I've never used Macs, I did some research this weekend and have narrowed my choice down to Macbook and Macbook Pro (we don't want another "desktop).

I understand that the major difference between the Macbook and Macbook Pro is with respect to the graphics card - the former has it integrated with the motherboard while the latter has a separate graphics card. Another difference is that Pros are (almost) standard with Superdrives (CD RW & DVD RW) while Macbooks have a standard drive with an optional Superdrive. Pros also have an "expansion port" while Macbooks don't.

The difference in price is significant, however. Am I missing any other fundamental differences? And what exactly is the purpose of the "expansion" port?

The salesman at my local Apple store indicated that the standard 512 MB RAM was more than sufficient for most applications and users but recommended upping to 1 GB if loading Windows XP. Does this sound right?

From a switching perspective, I foresee loading Windows XP so that I can continue to use certain Windows only applications (Microsoft Money, Visio & VPN client). For people who have loaded XP on Intel based Macs, how easy/hard is it to load XP? And is there a significant drop in performance in XP on a Macbook vs. XP on a Macbook Pro vs. XP on a, say, Dell laptop?

Any other "tips" on making the "switch"?

I just went through this exact decision-making process. I bought the Mac because I liked the design of the hardware, though, and have no use for the OS.

Ultimately I bought the Macbook. There just wasn't enough difference in performance to justify the price, and I prefer the smaller size. The macbook with the 2GHz processor runs Windows faster than just about anything. You will NOT have performance issues. The integrated graphics are plenty fast - they will run Vista in the highest-quality mode with no problem. You need 1GB of RAM for both OSes, but do not buy it from Apple - it's horribly overpriced. There's nothing special about it and you cah buy from any PC store (I bought mine in Boulanger, which is like a Best Buy).

Installing Windows is pretty easy. You just download BootCamp from Apple and follow the instructions. The Macbook will restart just like any other Windows PC and installation is exactly the same.

Downsides: the thing gets bloody hot. Too hot to rest on your lap without burning your leg. The keys scratch the nice shiny screen. And it has no right mouse button. If you're going to spend lots of time in Windows you'll want to use a mouse with it (though there is a hack that sort-of works).

So, good questions.
As for mb and MBP, yes I would say graphics card is the key differance, some people like the steel case not the plastic one. The "expansion" slot is a new funky way to say PCMCIA slot, although on the MBP it is an EXPRESSCARD slot, for which there is NOT a great deal to stick in it yet. EVDO high speed cards and such are a bit slow to materialize. The MACBOOK has neither, but I haven't found it an issue yet. I am working with a company for a usb to pcmcia alternative. More later.

512 is OKAY, but I would not run one of the new intel macs without 1gb. For the 40-50 it will cost to upgrade, it makes life just so much easier.

As for performance comparing the two, I think the MB is perfectly fine. For most things, it meets or beats the mbp.

Putting XP on works fine, and for the most part I would say it is FASTER than my ibm and dell laptops. There is no performance hit at all, at least not with bootcamp. I would even say it is FASTER at some tasks. Of course, no graphics card will slow down things like gaming and rendering. If you are going to do ANY gaming, get the MBP. If you are fine with the MACBOOK and are not gaming, get the MACBOOK, put some $$ into RAM and maybe get a larger harddrive. For bootcamp, you will need to make a second partition for the Windows OS. that will take up I would recommend a minimum or 10 but better 15 GB.

update
 

try running the latest FW update for the macbook, out about 72 hours. It dropped my temps about 10-16 C

still warm though

Related thread
 

I'm in need of upgrade, have a 4 yr old iBook that still runs great but have been waiting for the intel macbook. Now that it's out, a little apprehensive re how hot it runs. I know older power books have/had problem and surprised apple never solved the problem for their new line of macprobook and macbook.

So jury is still out for me - but for what you described, i think macbook is more than enough. And definitely get at least 1gb Ram.

You might also want to read through this thread (don't be fooled by the title) re getting WinXp up and running: http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=587690

Thanks for the responses.

I gather that you can load XP using Bootcamp AND using Parellels. What's the difference? Which method is preferable? I'd rather avoid making a partition to load XP, but if I simply have to, so be it...

I also take it that the jury is still out on the value of an Expresscard slot...I will most likely NOT use this computer for gaming, so a Macbook should suffice?

One last question (for now): How long does the battery last on Macbooks vs. Macbook Pros for regular use (Wireless, internet, Word, etc.)?

both
 

both are going to require SOME diskspace for the windows load. It IS just a bit more seamless and transparent using parallells. I have tried both, and since I don't multitask with both open at the same time, I went back to bootcamp. parallells is an emulator, that runs IN OSX meaning, you can go back and forth seemlessly. BC, requires a restart to load the windows partition. With BC, you really are just lauching a windows instance. Really a DUAL BOOT system.

I find BC worked faster than parallells, but parallells is no slouch at all.

Battery on the MB runs longer than the MBP in my experience. I have done ALMOST two DVDS across country, so just a tick less than 4.5 hours of DVD playback. I would say one could eeek out 5-5.5 hours with no optical disk use, kill the wireless, drop the brigthness, and leave something open so the disk activity is less. Also, having more RAM will make this better, less disk accessing.

IF you are not going to be gaming, the MB is just puurrfect, save some $$, get some RAM, up the HD, buy a nice case, etc.

I have had the MBP since the 1st day it was available. I love it but your paying a lot for the metal case and keyboard.

If the size of the screen is important would be the only reason why I would tell someone to get the pro. I have the 15 inch and it is much larger then the screen on the macbook... even though its only an inch bigger?

The 17 inch is great if you can find a laptop case to fit it!

I run XP in a window rather then doing the duel boot thing. It runs GREAT. You do need to stuff it with RAM if you do. I would suggest you not buy RAM from Apple when you get it. You can alway add it later and much cheaper from 3rd parties.

That said.. i love my MBP... but I didn't like the 2500 price tag! I do think there is some WOW factor thought with the MBP when you pull it out on the plane or at Starbucks... it might be people uttering "he sure does waste his money".... <G>

The new Mac laptops are actually great for gaming, they just need to work a few kinks out with controls.

I've had a MB Pro for several months now and paid around $1650 for the 1.83ghz from Amazon after rebates. We also bought a white Macbook 1.83ghz, $999 after rebate, to replace our 9 month old iBook so I can compare the two.

I wished apple had improved the case design over the Aluminum G4 Powerbooks. My new computer looks exactly like my old one.

The screen on the Pro has a much higher resolution, so I can fit more pallets on screen at the same time. For most PC weenies, that translates to more cells in your Excel worksheets than the Macbook. I also find the glossy screen to be annoying and like the "classic" matte screen finish, though photos and movies do look nicer when the glare doesn't prevent you from seeing them.

The speed between the two computers are about the same. We upgraded both computers to 2 gb of ram.

Battery life on the Macbook has been only slightly better than the Pro. We get around 3.5-4 hours of movie playback time when viewing DIVX files from the hard drive. Be sure to turn off Bluetooth, WIFI, dim the screen and turn on Better Battery Life though.

I'm probably getting a Verizon ExpressCard EDVO card, otherwise there is very little else I would use the slot for.

For whatever reason, I can't get Parallels to work with most hotel internet systems (be they wired or wireless). Works fine on my home wireless system (with WPA) and my friend's wireless network (with WEP), but it just plain refuses to work on the road.

So I use BootCamp as well. Also, Parallels really can't handle 3D windows apps (like games), so BC works better for that, as well. I dropped a 100GB HDD in my MacBook so even with two 5GB Windows installs, space is not an issue.

One thing I like about Parallels is that it works with your Mac's folders, so I don't need to duplicate my dataset (like you have to with BC). So I mostly work in Parallels and only revert to BC when network connectivity is not possible.

1GB is fine for Parallels if you don't run many apps at one time in either OS (I dedicate 512MB to XP and 512MB to OSX). If you do, then you want 2GB so each OS can have 1GB to play with.

how?
 

how'd you get the MB for 899$ AR. I haven't seen them dip below the 1099, with a 100$ rebate.?

As for the resolution, it is a couple hundred pixels more, around 10% overall though, wider and higher. 1440 v 1280, and 900 v 800. this shouldn't translate into a huge differance though, not THAT MUCH more additional palettes of real estate in my opinion.

Definitly checkout the glossy screen though, I actually prefer it, but others of course do not.

Sorry, I meant $999 after rebate. Forgot that the price was $1099.

Also, the pixel area is actually close to 20% more, which really helps if you're designing things all day. 1,296,000 vs 1,024,000 pixels

Thanks for the heads up,nmenaker. I checked my software update and downloaded the program. My MacBook is definitely running much cooler now. ^

I have an MBP that I bought before the MB turned up. I would probably have gone with a black MB had I had the choice. However, I do work with graphics, music and video so it would not have been a good option for me. I need the superdrive as well, which comes with the black MB.

But upgrading RAM on the MB made it cost about the same as the MBP anyway so I think I made a good choice.

Now, should I ever get a spare laptop, I would seriously consider an MB or even a second hand iBook. But that was not the question here.

/E

Boot Camp vs. Parallels
 

I strongly suggest you purchase this eBook -

http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/windows-on-mac.html

Very well written, simple to understand and should answer most of your questions re above. And it includes $10 coupon for parallels if that's the route you decide to take.

And
http://macwindows.com/

I'll surely look into the book.

Looks like I can install XP via Parallels AND Bootcamp - in other words, I have two installations of XP and hence three distinct partitions - Mac, XP+Parallels, XP+Bootcamp. I can have Parallels running (in parallel) with Mac OS X so that I have access to both Windows and Mac files while logging into XP using Bootcamp results in Mac & Parallels files being unavailable (I refer to files on the respective partitions).

With Vista on the horizon, I'd like to be prepared to "upgrade" - do I need a Macbook Pro to unlock ALL of Vista's Aero interface or will the Macbook suffice?

If I buy a 100GB HDD, can I partition it as 80 + 10 (Parallels) + 10 (Bootcamp) and U/G Bootcamp to Vista and leave Parallels running XP? I'll be sure to buy 2 GB RAM from Newegg or another retailer.

Also, do I technically need two licenses to load XP twice (Bootcamp & Parallels)? Same with software loaded onto these installations?

I'm confused, sounds to me like you're after a PC (given all the Windows questions) rather than a Mac, why are you considering a mac?

There is Quicken mac which would replace Microsoft Money, it even imports from it.
There is Omnigraffle which produces much sexier diagrams than I've seen visio produce.
And you shouldn't have any problem with the VPN under OS X.

OS X all the way baby! ;)

I have actually encountered a PC user who has OS X on his PC laptop. He thought it was a better OS.

/E

Yes, I shouldn't have a problem with VPN except that my client does not support Macs. We are required to install some Nortel VPN software that isn't available for Macs. Also, I don't imagine my clients being too thrilled about me asking them to use Omnigraffle and dump their Visio documents. Oh and yeah, syncing my wife's Blackberry and Exchange server won't be fun on a Mac.

As for Quicken/Money, I can possibly make the switch but only after this financial year.

Basically, I'm ready to switch to a Mac but can't possibly walk away from Windows altogether. As more software becomes available for Macs over time, I suppose I can dump Windows completely.

Sounds to me like you'd be better off spending your money on a PC rather than a Mac, given that you've already pretty much stated that you'll be spending most of your time in Windows. Sounds like your only use for OS X will be surfing the net!

Doesn't sound like you're ready to switch to a Mac to me, but if you do, welcome to the fold. :)

(And I never thought I'd hear myself suggesting that somebody actually buys a PC over a mac!)

Parallels doesn't use a partition. It uses a file for the hard drive that can be set to expand when it needs more space.

My understanding is that you'll need two licenses because of Windows Activation. Windows will see it as two different machines when you go to activate it.

Oh, I don't know. Sounds like OP wants to dabble in Mac while he continues to deal with crap that keeps him somewhat stuck in Windows. I think that's a reasonable approach to take.

My first thought was "Okay, you can find substitutes for those things listed" as Sn00p mentioned. But that can take time. The VPN may or may not be well covered. There are various options in place of something like MS Money, so that could be changed. Visio is tougher if you need to keep exchanging documents in it (I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of that, but I think there are options or could be if you want to switch bad enough). So I'd say running the MacBook with Parallels would be a good option, once you've tested to see that your chosen apps work okay that way. If you want to go Mac, BootCamp is less desirable because you'll end up not wanting to reboot all the time, which means if you need to do this stuff right now you'll end up booted into Windows. So if your stuff can work in Parallels, that would be good and give you the chance to do the less software-specific stuff in Mac (stuff like email, web browsing, anything personal with photos and music, etc.) without rebooting.

BTW, you can sync Blackberry and Exchange on a Mac. The Blackberry requires third-party software (provided for free and endorsed by RIM as I recall, but not written by them). Exchange you can do with MS Entourage (part of Office Mac), although it's still not as complete as Outlook from what I understand.

The horrible support for Exchange in both Entourage and mail.app is one of the main reasons I will not switch OSes. Despite the bullets on the shiny software boxes, it's essentially unusable.

what
 

what exactly is missing using entourage with exchange? I seem to be able to download, sync fine, meeting updates, calender, etc.

?

I agree with all the Parallels recommendations. Dual booting is a pain, and unless you want to play video games, performance in Parallels is good. You don't need to do any special partitioning - it runs in a disk image, which is just a big file. Here's a little blog entry that actually has a screenshot of Visio and Project running in Parallels.

I'd get the regular MacBook, kick it up to a gig or two of ram, and run parallels. I have the same VPN problem as you - Checkpoint don't make a VPN client that runs on OS 10.4.

Good luck - with the MacBook + Parallels, you really get the best of both worlds. Also, Parallels apparently employs the world's speediest programmers - it seems like they improve it every couple of weeks.

true, although I guess I think of MUCH more space, as more than 11% wider or 11% taller which is all it really is. If a floating pallette takes up one quarter of the screen space, I cannot add a FIFTH pallette, simply because the screen is 11% wider.

The pixel density is not too much higher. If one REALLY wants MUCH more space, then the 17" model is ideal, but be prepared to have some long arms too

:-)

Yes, because they are seperate Windows installations that don't (and cannot) see each other.

With Parallels, no. If you install Vista and XP using Bootcamp on 2 different partitions, they can share data. Mac OS can also read the NTFS partitions to share data.

OS X allows you to save any document as PDF really easily.

Just go to file->print (command-P) and select the PDF button from the bottom-left of the print pane. A number of options will drop-down, including save as pdf.

Very handy.

Also, keep this in mind for online purchases, as there's an option to save a document as pdf to a folder called "webreceipts".

Cool! Then the OP's clients can just open the PDF in Visio and edit away.