So, when you said that is where the true value is, it turns out that the mini isn't that much of a deal?

Out of the box it can't really do too much :(

Nevertheless, it might be a nice media center as I find XP MCE to be a POS.

Does Apple have a decent media center software package yet?

Much in the same way, after using the Mac Mini a little yesterday, it seems to run the basic apps with as much snap as all but the dual G4s out there.

It's not for hardcore video editing, 3D modeling and all that. I believe it is positioned to gain new marketshare, not simply to satisfy the existing customer base. Think of all the PC deals that go on every day, with dell selling their lowest end at $350-$400 - this is what a lot of bargain hunters, students, i-just-need-to-check-e-mail people buy. Now the mac Mini at $500 is going to make them think twice. "Hey, for $500 I can have a unit that doesn't take up lots of space, does all that I need it to, and looks good to boot? I'll take it."

I personally am not gonna buy one, but I think i see where they're going with it. Had quite a buzz at Macworld yesterday anyway.

Apple does not, but there are some good addons. EyeTV from Elgato will get you DVR functionality, and there is a freeware app from Apple that allows you to use a Mac as a virtual Firewire DVHS recorder (HiDef!). The Apple DVD player kind of sucks a bit, but the progressive scan issues should be worked out on the next OS release. In the mean time, VLC is great at playing back DVD's, Divxes, etc. Then you have the iApps - iTunes/iPhoto for music and photo viewing.

You would need to buy somthing like the M-Audio Transit to get Optical Audio out, since the Mini does not have it.

Tie all this together with Salling Clicker for remote control, and you have a pretty cool media center.

Hopefully, someone will write a nice U/I to wrap some of this functionality all up too.

I'm thinking about buying one for my new 50" NEC Plasma. Not so much for DVR functionality, as I'm very happy with my new Cox-Supplied Motorola HD DVR, but for the other functions (and some big-screen web browsing).

PS - All this talk about Spyware/Adware - Microsoft is at fault for a lot of this stuff for leaving holes open in their OS. I'll blame the end user for a bit of this, but it is Microsoft's fault. However, given enough time, I'm sure that people would find holes in Firefox, MacOS, Linux, etc. (although with a much lower probability of success).

I am intrigued by this machine, I have never used an Apple in my entire life but more and more I am getting curious. I figure this is a cheap (cheaper) way to check out Apple's way of doing things.
I would hate to plunk down thousands to find out Mac's aren't for me.
(of course to me 5 hunnie isn't exactly pocket change so I havent decided what I am gonna do).

I don't know if that's necessarily a fair assessment.

I went to Dell's site and specified a similar configuration on its low end machine--256M RAM, no software, no monitor, 1 year warranty, DVD/CD-RW drive and WordPerfect (like that's useful)--and it came out at $547.

Sure. Add $29.00 for Works or $149 for Office Basic. $50 for the screen (though it currently is a LCD). Take the free 256M upgrade. And add necessary virus and security protection (not as huge a worry on the Mac) for $69. Out the door at $815, sans shipping and tax.

MacMini at $499, without the memory upgrade (which I find unnecessary for OS X, but people will disagree... I would argue the Mac is usable at the memory level, an XP PC is not). Add decent USB mouse and keyboard for $50. Add iWork for $79. Get Quicken 2005 and iLife free. Add $205 for the 15" LCD from Princeton. Total of $833, sans shipping and tax. If you wanted Office 2004 for Mac, you have the "Home/Academic" version at $139 for an alternative total of $893, a spread of less than $100. With the memory, $75 more for $968 (a price that will drop quickly as the authorized resellers get involved).

Now envision all the help desk calls you get on weekends and weeknights gone. :)

Media stuff is great... it ships with iMovie, iTunes (so it can work with the Airport Express), iPhoto, so you've got a full suite of media editing tools.

As for DVR. With remote control, $159. Don't know much about it... I have my DirecTivos.

http://www.miglia.com/products/video...dvr/index.html

I can't speak for its quality (that was just a paste from MacWorld), but then again... according to the Washington Post and New York Times technology editors, I think we're still waiting on a quality DVR for Windows. ;)

Timothy

Such a devil's advocate you are when it comes to these things. :)

ok, ok, so I accidentally include 2 out of around 15 apps that you don't get out of the box, but that doesn't null out the value. Everyone will find something different that they appreciate and place the most value upon out of the iapps that are included. For me it's Mail, iPhoto, iTunes and especially iChat. I use my .mac homepage for positing all my pictures. To give you an idea of how simple it is, I actually imported my digital pics into iPhoto and created a web site from New Year's Eve while drunk off of my A** around 3 AM New Year's Morning. A few days later, I stumbled across the new page on my web site, unaware that I had created it! :D If that's not a ringing product endorsement, I don't know what is. :)

Others really get into the video editing and DVD burning in iMovie and iDVD. And then I know some folks who absolutely love Garage Band. Each to his or her own, sober or sloshed.


What media center-type activities would you want it for? DVR? Jukebox for the stereo/a place for holding your music collection? Ripping DVDs?

People do it, and there are 3rd party apps out that'll make it work just fine. I think I read a post in the thread on Slashdot that mentioned how someone had an old G4 set up for this purpose. ..... ..... Found it.

For a PVR solution, I kinda like this one.

I'm planning on holding out, as there will surely be more elegant, integrated options available at some point.

So to answer your question, Apple doesn't have an integrated package like that yet, but there are third party options available.

Huh. I am typing this on a new Dell Celeron 2.6 which I got a little over a month ago. It cost 289€, including shipping, with a combo drive and a "free" upgrade to 512MB. Came with a keyboard and mouse, too. I added 20 bucks for a bluetooth adapter. Maybe the American peso is a lot further in the ****ter than I thought, or maybe you aren't trying very hard.

Granted, it doesn't look like Barbie's toaster, but that's OK.

I absolutely adore having the Mac<>Win debate. It's always a lot of fun.

ok, now this is just not a fair statement. Everyone knows that Barbie's toaster is pink, and this box is brushed aluminum. There's not even any pink fake fur trim anywhere on it.



;)

Puh-leese. :rolleyes: My PC came with over 150 apps! Wordpad, Messenger (which actually has other people on it), Movie Maker, even Control Panel!

Let's not be disengenuous here...this Mac thing is a cheap computer that comes bundled with the same bog-standard crap Windows and Linux machines come bundled with in the OS. Do you get paid to write ad copy for Apple, by any chance?

BTW, recording a TV show != media center. See Meedio, XP Media Center Edition, MyHTPC, Freevo, MythTV, etc. PC-based, 10-foot interface, integrated remote control, no need for mouse, keyboard, or a half-dozen contraptions hanging out of every USB port. This new Apple box might make a good platform for such a thing, but there is no software even close to doing it (and a Google search turns up absolutely nothing likely in development).

OK, Mac talk has drawn me out of lurking :D

I think the "digital hub" stuff is really where OS X shines. A buddy of mine is a great example, he's a new parent, and picked up an iMac and a FireWire video camera. With iMovie and iDVD he's able to really quickly make some really slick looking movies (which he can push up to his .mac page or burn to DVD).

iPhoto is also, by far, the best solution I've ever seen (not to say I have seen everything) for dealing with photos. Organizing, putting up on the web, ordering prints and books, making cool little slideshows, it all just works.

My mom always had a hell of a time dealing with her photos on a PC, and after I got my dad switched over to a Mac for his business, he's got to kick her off of it because that's the only place she'll connect her camera now.

To the price poo-poo'ers, this may not be the system for you. If you're the build-your-own-PC-and-put-neon-tubes in it, great, but for a vast majority of computer users (and what I think might become more important, the current non-computer users), this box does all of the functions people want to do today: music, pictures, video, web, e-mail, and does it all well, and for a fair price. And it looks cool as hell :D

But anyway, I'll get off my soap box.

Oh, and Swise, if you want to wave any magic wands and push my order to the head of the stack, I wouldn't complain or anything ;) I'm picking one of these babies up to replace a little Linux web server I've got at home... no more dealing with Linux patches for me!

I'll bet there are Hello Kitty cozies for it within two weeks in Ahkibara! :P

Edited to add: I am going to buy one (the iMini or whatever it's called, not the Hello Kitty thing). I'm guessing that Apple will pull their usual stunt and sell it for $899 over here, available sometime in October. I guess I'll have to hit an Apple store in the US when there is a supply.

AKA Movie Maker, something that was in XP before the Mac had it.

XP has excellent built in photo support, or there is always Google's Picasa.

I'm always amazed how Apple makes it sound like the have the patent on "easy", but most of the things they manage can all be done just as easy on a PC.

As for iLife, if Microsoft tried to pull that stunt they'd be sued for taking advantage of their monopoly. The only reason iLife and all the other iWhatever products are so "good" is because there wasn't much of an alternative for beginner users.

um... the Mac comes with a lot more that I didn't mention. But mentioning every Gnu app, for example, would exceed the space limitations here. The Macintosh OS is BSD Unix. Every Unix app works on a Mac completely natively. Must people don't really use many Unix apps day-to-day, though, so I didn't mention them. I have no idea how many apps total actually come bundled in the box. I would guess a couple of hundred, not including what you can access through Terminal.

That's just it: the standard apps that come with every Mac are not the same bog-standard crap you get with Windows and Linux machines. These apps are actually widely considered the best in their class. Sure, you can edit a video on any machines, but you can do it easily, enjoyably, more efficiently, more intuitively using iMovie than any of the bog-standards out there. Apple spends as much as Dell on R&D, but Dell is 10 times Apple's size. The end result is that the products offered are actually good and often the best. Watch the most recent keynote to see some of the demos of the iApps.

Not to write ad copy, no.

Apple does not discuss products in development. You will not find anything official related to future products in a google search. If you do, you can be sure that a team of lawyers has already descended upon whoever hosts the site, whoever publishes the site and whoever leaked the information. There are three such cases now.

Apple's famous for its secrecy. 99% of the employees have no idea what's being announced until the public does. 5% may have a bit of information here, another bit there, but nowhere near enough to have any significant knowledge.

I didn't say Apple was the first person to come out with it... I was just implying that they did it the best :)


While I admit I haven't used XP's photo support lately, the last time I used it, it had nowhere near as many features as iPhoto, lacked the organization tools, the ability to make a web page (either export actual jpg's and html, or publish to something .mac-like), do slideshows, make printed and bound books, etc.

I'm certainly not claiming these things can't be done on Windows, I just think (and this is totally subjective) that the Mac makes it easier and more intuitive, and is more pleasant to use.