OK, Mac talk has drawn me out of lurking :D

I think the "digital hub" stuff is really where OS X shines. A buddy of mine is a great example, he's a new parent, and picked up an iMac and a FireWire video camera. With iMovie and iDVD he's able to really quickly make some really slick looking movies (which he can push up to his .mac page or burn to DVD).

iPhoto is also, by far, the best solution I've ever seen (not to say I have seen everything) for dealing with photos. Organizing, putting up on the web, ordering prints and books, making cool little slideshows, it all just works.

My mom always had a hell of a time dealing with her photos on a PC, and after I got my dad switched over to a Mac for his business, he's got to kick her off of it because that's the only place she'll connect her camera now.

To the price poo-poo'ers, this may not be the system for you. If you're the build-your-own-PC-and-put-neon-tubes in it, great, but for a vast majority of computer users (and what I think might become more important, the current non-computer users), this box does all of the functions people want to do today: music, pictures, video, web, e-mail, and does it all well, and for a fair price. And it looks cool as hell :D

But anyway, I'll get off my soap box.

Oh, and Swise, if you want to wave any magic wands and push my order to the head of the stack, I wouldn't complain or anything ;) I'm picking one of these babies up to replace a little Linux web server I've got at home... no more dealing with Linux patches for me!

I'll bet there are Hello Kitty cozies for it within two weeks in Ahkibara! :P

Edited to add: I am going to buy one (the iMini or whatever it's called, not the Hello Kitty thing). I'm guessing that Apple will pull their usual stunt and sell it for $899 over here, available sometime in October. I guess I'll have to hit an Apple store in the US when there is a supply.

AKA Movie Maker, something that was in XP before the Mac had it.

XP has excellent built in photo support, or there is always Google's Picasa.

I'm always amazed how Apple makes it sound like the have the patent on "easy", but most of the things they manage can all be done just as easy on a PC.

As for iLife, if Microsoft tried to pull that stunt they'd be sued for taking advantage of their monopoly. The only reason iLife and all the other iWhatever products are so "good" is because there wasn't much of an alternative for beginner users.

um... the Mac comes with a lot more that I didn't mention. But mentioning every Gnu app, for example, would exceed the space limitations here. The Macintosh OS is BSD Unix. Every Unix app works on a Mac completely natively. Must people don't really use many Unix apps day-to-day, though, so I didn't mention them. I have no idea how many apps total actually come bundled in the box. I would guess a couple of hundred, not including what you can access through Terminal.

That's just it: the standard apps that come with every Mac are not the same bog-standard crap you get with Windows and Linux machines. These apps are actually widely considered the best in their class. Sure, you can edit a video on any machines, but you can do it easily, enjoyably, more efficiently, more intuitively using iMovie than any of the bog-standards out there. Apple spends as much as Dell on R&D, but Dell is 10 times Apple's size. The end result is that the products offered are actually good and often the best. Watch the most recent keynote to see some of the demos of the iApps.

Not to write ad copy, no.

Apple does not discuss products in development. You will not find anything official related to future products in a google search. If you do, you can be sure that a team of lawyers has already descended upon whoever hosts the site, whoever publishes the site and whoever leaked the information. There are three such cases now.

Apple's famous for its secrecy. 99% of the employees have no idea what's being announced until the public does. 5% may have a bit of information here, another bit there, but nowhere near enough to have any significant knowledge.

I didn't say Apple was the first person to come out with it... I was just implying that they did it the best :)


While I admit I haven't used XP's photo support lately, the last time I used it, it had nowhere near as many features as iPhoto, lacked the organization tools, the ability to make a web page (either export actual jpg's and html, or publish to something .mac-like), do slideshows, make printed and bound books, etc.

I'm certainly not claiming these things can't be done on Windows, I just think (and this is totally subjective) that the Mac makes it easier and more intuitive, and is more pleasant to use.

Here's my 2 cents on Mac vs Dell: It's not the price, nor the apps, nor the add-ons. It's simply this:
Mac... Cool!
Dell... Yech!

And that pretty sums up what the Mac has going for it.

It is "cool".

Who cares about price, software, installed base. It's COOL.

Clearly, you've never been to a MacWorld... :D

It's not about "cool".


Now maybe in the grand scheme, one could argue that everything is relative...

mac:wintel/linux::Millhouse:Comic Book Guy

I have been to many of them, including International versions.

All I ever saw was hyped geeks looking like they were expecting some kind of miracle.

Of course it's about cool, why else would people RUN from the Macworld yesterday to the closest Apple store and buy 10 shuffles? It's about being seen with the product, it's got sex appeal, and people want it.

Apple:Computers :: Bose:Audio equipment

"Better sound through Marketing"

Just looked at the Apple website, the cheapest display they have is $999... Why couldn't they bring back a decent 15" LCD for this machine, they could have pu together a package with the mini, an LCD and a keyboard/mouse for under $800. What a missed chance :(

You are now forced to buy some off-the-shelf monitor to match your lovely brushed aluminum toaster...

Apple sticks to high-end displays.

mini + display +kb and mouse = emac, which sells for $799.

They just released the product yesterday. I'm sure they plan on testing the waters first before getting too creative.

Throw some pink fake fur fringe around your toaster and a couple of strips around your after market, cheapo LCD, and they'll match beautifully.

I wonder how long it'll be before the accessory market for these really takes off... I mean if there are iPod socks, there's bound to be a whole line of Mac Mini Cozies! :D

Actually, iMovie was around (2000) long before XP (and Moviemaker) was.

You know, it IS possible to discuss the positives and negatives of various operating systems or hardware without it becoming a p*ssing match. Of course, I can't say I've seen it happen that often.... :rolleyes:

One comment I wanted to make was regarding using this Mac mini as a "media center" sort of unit. The main drawback I see in this use is the storage space. This tiny box uses a 2.5" (laptop size) hard drive, so the max capacity of the internal is 100GB right now I think (maybe 120GB now or soon?) and Apple will only sell up to 80GB anyway. Essentially infinite storage can be added by plugging in FireWire external boxes, but too much of that would destroy the advantage of the nice small box. You could still keep things pretty small if you keep it to one external HD.

Apart from the limitation of the internals, there really isn't anything it couldn't do in this regard, at least nothing that I can think of. It would take a lot of optional software and probably a couple of hardware dongly things to do all the media center-type stuff, but then it isn't billed out of the box as such a thing. I'm not entirely familiar with all the features that Microsoft's Media Center solution provides, but I'm pretty confident there isn't anything that can't be done in Mac capable software and hardware that would work with this box. Will it be done for less money? Don't know. More elegantly? Maybe sometimes, but it's really subjective from what I see around here. One person's "easier" is another's "clunky" it seems, and who am I to argue that they're "wrong"? The experience is in the eye of the beholder. Yes, some of it may be simple unfamiliarity, but that doesn't mean there is no valid criticism. This holds true from either side. Both are equally prone to standing on ridiculous bias.

BTW, the RAM on the mini is likely to be user upgradable, even though the official line is you shouldn't do it. When you open the unit, apparently the RAM is easy to get to, and this process won't void the warranty. The HD, however, is behind too many things, and this will be against the warranty.

Disclaimer: My bias is that I prefer Macs, and I have one as my desk computer at work in addition to the ones I have for personal use. I try not to jump on anyone for choosing or not choosing a given OS. :D

:rolleyes: Yeah, Spyware. Care to add Hacking, Identity Theft, and Terrorism to the list, too? :rolleyes:

Fortunately, Macs are immune to this sort of thing - http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61798

I'll do my own max'ing and risk my 90 day warranty, but I'll wait until the die-hard techie mod'ers get their hands on them and see what they can do (like how big a disk it can handle, for instance).

Oh, so it's YOUR fault I'm felt up by the TSA on one-way last minute tickets with no luggage! I thought it was iPod envy.

Timothy

What I love about this argument, having started it, is that it reenforces the belief that Apple people are zealots and resolves that Windows people still are working on their new reason to hate Macs.

Hey! Look at that: This thread is now travel related!

Good job!

*Takes Bow*

Oh, Please.

If you check back to the start of the thread, I was one of the people who said I was serious considering picking one up to play around with.

But apparently I'm just getting one so that I'll have a first hand experience to allow me to better nit-pick all of the problems w/ Macs.

Apple's own web site says 128Mb required for OSX and 256MB for iLife. As minimums are just that, I'm betting that running iLife on the $499 box will be like driving a Fiat Bingo with a Fiat Bingo engine.

Also, the jury is out on this "fanless" device. Remember the cube?

I still want one though. :)

iDVD perhaps, but not iMovie. I was using iMovie in early 2000.

SEA... we adore you. It's a little brighter than "Sea, I AM YOUR FATHER! Join the dark side!"

But this has turned into an Apple-Windows wizzing war, thus we will have collateral damage. And, I must admit, you are the only person who actually answered the question in the topic, though we haven't resolved whether you actually HAVE an iPod. ;)

Timothy

PM me if you need any help with the switching thing. It is, after all, a little late to save Christmas. However, I'm sure someone will help you acquire a .WAV of the stoner girl's Windows error beep.

Nope, no iPod
 

I don't have an iPod - I've got a 4GB Creative MuVo2. I've got 6500+ songs in WMA format - so getting an iPod has never made much sense for me.

To answer the original question is

NO

Wife has an ipod, that's about it.

Until Apple has the equivalent of a multimedia computer with remote control and has the look of a component unit for my stereo, doesn't cost an arm and a leg, then I will be interested ;)

No I-pod here, but I'm considering buying the mini Mac anyway. I've always loved the sleek look and feel of OS X.

Functionally, it has the basics in a nice, compact, cool-looking case.

I, too, thought it was fanless, but heard today at the expo that there is one fan, and it "expedites" air up through the "bottom" (though it can be used on its side) and "blows" out the vents that look more like radiant heat vents.

Didn't hear a fan going at the show, but then again, it isn't exactly quiet at Moscone.

And yes, remember the cube. Still my mom's #1 machine, alive and running with daily use. Couldn't switch her over to windows. Looks like she'll be "upgrading" to this one instead on Jan 22nd.

=========1/30/05========
looking at the service manual now, I'm not so sure there is a fan. There is a funny "thermal pad", but I don't see an actual fan. hmm.

Unless you order that configuration from Dell. ;)

Actually some of those parts are yesteryear - I'm shocked a new rig from Apple is sporting Vic-20 esque componentry! :eek:

^ :D

I don't understand why it wouldn't make sense? iTunes can convert unprotected WMA files.

Who says he has unprotected files?

Besides that, converting 6500 WMA's doesn't really make sense, it's better to just pick a player that can play your own music as each conversion will degrade the quality of the file, especially if it's VBR WMA.

What is this famous Fiat Bingo everyone is talking about? :confused:

My main gripe about this new Mac is the poky 2.5" laptop drive, which moreover adds an unneeded ~$25 to the machine's cost.

Two reasons:

- more compact
- cooler

Obviously. I would also add:
- will help making sure the Mini won't cannibalize iMac sales, due to its slow and capacity-limited HD.

The ~3W difference in power consumption, and additional ~300cm3 of a regular desktop drive aren't factors which couldn't have been addressed in a newly designed machine. Sure, the toaster would be a little thicker...

MyHTPC, which is now known as Meedio (the commercial version of MyHTPC) is not a media center in the sense that it has no built-in functionality -- it uses external applications to play DVDs, etc. Freevo and MythTV are, OTOH, media centers but they do _not_ run under Windows, only Linux.

As you probably know, the XP Media Center was orginally a hardware/software product that sold for what? $1,300+ or more, IIRC.

I am not sure what, other than possibly MCE, you are referring to with the "integrated remote control, no need for mouse..."

Using a Mac (including the Mini) for a media center is actually not that bad an idea. Assuming you get the Airport card with the machine, you can then buy an AirPort Express Base Station with AirTunes ($129) which gives you: 1. a wireless router (up to 10 machines plus a printer port) and 2. provides a optical output to connect to an audio amplifier. The audio for a DVD is sent wirelessly to the amp via the base station.

There is also the Keyspan Express Remote ($59) which gives the Mac remote control.

You can read about both products here:
http://tinyurl.com/3pexv

For software, there is Apple's DVD Player, plus there are Videolan (VLC) and MPlayer. Just like with Windows, as the hardware becomes more popular, the software will come.

There's also Salling Clicker. For $19.99, you can use any Sony Ericsson, Palm and some Nokia phones to control a Mac via Bluetooth.

Great for iTunes in hotel rooms.

Timothy

Exactly right. I don't want to convert my music because going from one lossy format (unfortunately, my music isn't in lossless WMA, as that didn't exist at the time I ripped it) to another would lower the audio quality.

Almost all of my songs are unprotected, but I do have about 20 or so unprotected.

Re-ripping my CDs, isn't really an option given that it would take a lot of time, and even if I had the time, all my CDs are sitting in a storage locker 4800 miles away.

Even if I could over come all of those other factors, I'd still be wary of the iPod given that I'm a Windows user. Having had the misfortune of using numerous versions of QuickTime on Windows for years, I'm fairly convinced that Apple doesn't know how to write good software for Windows. I haven't used Apple's software for the iPod on Windows, so I can't comment first hand on it - perhaps it is better.

Funny how all these formats kind of worked. ;) I thought about doing all my music in AAC loss-less, then decided I'd take the size penalty and just do good old 128K VBR MP3. I am sure I suffer some loss of battery life for it, but hey... all my old Creative Jukebox stuff went easily into the iPod.

iTunes (and Quicktime, for that matter) works like a charm on my staff's Windoze laptops. The only thing I don't like about it is that I constantly have to whack them off my Powerbook's library when I'm listening to stuff at work--the sharing stuff works TOO well! :)

Timothy

check it out
 

yeah, check that out. The new iMac don't have international power supplies, silly apple

Huh?? These things are being sold internationally... do you really thing if you bought one in Holland it would come with a US power plug? I don't think so.

And they're Mac mini's, not an iMac :)