GPS units allowed on planes?
 

I vaguely recall a thread about a year ago that addressed whether or not GPS units were allowed on planes. I tried to do a search here, and also on aa.com, but can't find anything. Anyone know if they're allowed or not?

If you follow this really long link:

http://www.aa.com /content/customerService/baggage/carryOnAllowance.jhtml?anchorEvent=false#Electroni c%20Devices,%20Medical%20Devices,%20Musical%20Inst ruments

(You'll then need to scroll down to close to the bottom of the page)

You'll find the answer is that GPS's can NOT be USED on the plane.

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[This message has been edited by businesstraveler (edited 04-01-2003).]

It probably depends on the airline, for example SAS specificailly said they were allowed during the flight.

Delta, for example, treats them the same as computers, not during take off and landing, but flight is OK

http://www.delta.com/travel/trav_ser...nics/index.jsp

You need to check with the airline to see what their rules are.

Actually, the AA website says "Portable Global Positioning Satellites (G.P.S.)" So, if you want to split hairs, they don't want you using a *satellite* on board. Nothing about the handheld transceivers LOL I have a co-worker who has an aviation grade GPS unit for his iPaq (he's a pilot) and he routinely uses it for his personal plane as well as charter and commercial flights and he's never reported any problems using it.

On United, anyway, GPS units are apparently allowed. From pilot and FlyerTalker Mark Rogers' comments on the thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/012327.html :

"GPS units are specifically allowed, while scanners are prohibited....

In the future, you might politely ask the FA to check with the captain. It might help to know that the reference is on page 8.100.7 of the FOM."

In the UK, most non-aviation GPS units are set to stop displaying positional data when the speed is over 100MPH. Tried mine on a flight from MAN to MUC and it didn't work.

TJ

As I understand it, this is a supposed to be a safety precaution to make sure you're using the right tool for the job. (Read: make you buy the more expensive aviation unit).

I don't think this is universally applicable though, I had heard it was mostly the older Garmin units that suffered from this limitation: I know I've heard of private pilots using the bog-standard Magellan units without problems.

Never tried it in on a flight as that tiny window makes acquiring enough sat signals for (accurate) fixes, next to impossible.

We use our beat up Garmin II+ on road trips in Europe and can vouch for it's ability to work at speeds =>160kph http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

My $0.02

I've managed to get a fix with most Garmin units. I ended up using the eMap, can confirm that it actually worked on board Concorde though the altitude reading was not working well...

I've heard a few people say they've had no problems getting an accurate reading on a plane. Have you actually tried? Or are you speculating? I don't know too much about the technical aspects of GPS units. It seems to me that it would be difficult to use them in the plane. But then again, a friend of mine says he can get a signal inside his apartment, even when he's not next to the window. Is that even possible?

I have a Rand McNally GPS attachment for my Palm VII. I've never had a problem acquiring and keeping a signal from a window seat.

Unlikely. Bear in mind that the power output of a GPS satellite for the public L1 signal is about 26W; the antenna gain is quite high, so imagine a 30W spotlight focussed on the earth from 21,000km away and you get some idea of how weak the signal is by the time it arrives.

You can hinder most handhold GPS receivers just by putting your hand over the antenna, in my experience. I would be extremely surprised if you could acquire enough satellites to get a position fix indoors.

I regularly use my handheld Garmin 76s Mapping GPS on airplanes, to the great interest of flight attendants and pilots. On aircraft with laptop power, I'll hook the GPS up to my laptop with a Mapdata CD and follow the detailed map on the screen, identifying geographical features out the window. I have no problem getting multiple satellite signals and a solid 3D lock by just putting the unit up to the aircraft window.

No one in more than 50 flights since I got the thing has asked me to put it away. Most want to see how it works. One FA asked me if it was OK to use and I wrote down the unit number and she took the slip of paper to the pilot to check. She returned with an OK and later the pilot came downstairs to visit.

Aside from tracking the flight, I use my GPS to explore foreign cities. When I leave the hotel for a walk, I'll mark the hotel as a waypoint, then head out to get lost. Using the GPS I can always navigate my way back to the hotel. With street level map information downloaded from a CD, I can even find restaurants. One night in Valencia I queried the unit for the closest seafood restaurant and it helped me navigate to a little hidden place off down a walking street with the best paella I have ever had.

I also set up a waypoint for each airport and city that I visit and can display my wanderings on a world map in my laptop using the routing feature.

GPS: great travel tool and toy!

Among other things, flight direction and type/quality of the GPS unit all play a role in how good a fix you can get. An accurate GPS fix requires a minimum of 4 (good) satellite signals. See: http://www.cmtinc.com/gpsbook/chap7.html
for a, non-tech summary of the concept.

No, I've never tried to use my handheld unit on a flight. I've used GPS for ~6 years, first as a marine nav. aide, then picked up the handheld unit that we use in the car on European "road trips" and anytime we go hiking/skiing. Knowing my unit, I'd surmise (speculate, if you will) that using it on a commercial flight would be a waste for me, but might be fun for a new user as long as it showed him/her something on the screen. I figure the inflight tracking screen is good enough for me (most of my flights are JFK->Europe).

As for your friend being able to use GPS inside, I too can get an initial fix near a window but once I move around inside, the unit will loose signal(s) and go into Dead Reconing Mode.

This has never been a problem for me.

What kind of unit do you have? I'm shopping for one now, and leaning towards the Garmin Ultrex Vista. Any thoughts?

Mine works just fine indoors in a one story house with a tar-and gravel roof.

On an aircraft it has to be near the window since the signal cannot penetrate the metal skin.

It was kind of fun for a few flights, but then the novelty wore off. If BA really allows GPS on Concorde, -that- might be worth trying!

You may end up with problems, as most of the GPS units for which I've seen specs only read up to 999 knots, which is a bit too slow for Concorde's M2.02 cruising speed :-)

The windows on Concorde were too small and probably too hot for me to get an accurate reading. It did aquire but speed and altitude were going up and down all the time....

I use the eMap and a GPS V, the V has better reception. I also use a PocketPC with TomTom (SiRF) receiver but it's reception is weak...

I use my Garmin GPS regularly on flights. It works fairly well. I usually don't get questioned about it.

I use it with Street Atlas USA on my laptop. This gives a moving map that can be used to identify things on the ground. Not terribly exciting... But, it can be entertaining when you travel near significant landmarks.

You might have problems with your GPS on the Concorde if it is flying near its maximum altitude! GPS units that work at altitudes > 60,000 feet or 1,000+ knots are considered "munitions" per 22 CFR 121 (more details). Thus, it should not work at high speeds/alititudes.

This site lists airlines that are believed to approve the use of GPS on flights. (Note: Even if the airline approves it, the captain is still in charge!).

Here is a congressional subcommittee report on the topic: The Subcommittee on Aviation Hearing on Portable Electronic Devices: Do they really pose a safey hazard on aircraft? It mentions GPS as permissable above 10,000 feet: "In the middle of these two extremes are portable electronic devices that can only be operated before departure, while the aircraft door is open, or after the aircraft has reached an altitude of 10,000 feet. When the aircraft is descending, all PEDs in this category must be turned off. These actions are usually controlled by flight attendant announcements throughout the flight. The PEDs subject to these restrictions include CD players, laptop computers, electronic video games, and GPS navigation sets."

From the Regs. sited for GPS: ..."Designed for producing navigation results above 60,000 feet altitude and at 1,000 knots velocity or greater;...".

_AND_ in the above means the unit has to do both. The highest speed spec. I've ever seen on a consumer GPS is 999 mph (868knots); ergo, not a proscribed item on the munitions list.

A couple months ago on two different Alaska flights the FA demanded the GPS be turned off in flight.

But no one has tried to confiscate it or forbid it from coming on board.

What is the rationale behind preventing in-flight gps use?

There have been a couple decent threads on this in the past year. While people have discussed various reasons as to how the airlines might rationalize banning them on planes, I think the consensus is that there's no reasonable reason to ban them. I've been able to use it on planes just fine. I usually get a flight attendant who asks me what it is. When I show it to them, they're always fascinated with it. They think it's neat to see our current speed and where we're located. I've never had a flight attendant tell me to turn it off.

I have used my Magellan Meridian Platinum on many airplanes when I have the window seat. It very accurately displays velocity and location on its moving map display. It is a lot of fun to see yourself flying over points on the ground and look at the map to see where you are.

The Magellan has a listing of airports and you can set ORD as your final destination and it'll give you the ETA as well.

Lots of fun on a long boring plane flight.

AA has banned them, but I've never been asked to put mine away on an AA flight.

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AAdvantage Gold, Holiday Inn Platinum

I have been using portable GPS systems for about 10 years, and have used them on commercial aircraft many times.

American Airlines now prohibits them, and says so in their in-flight magazine. Nevertheless, I have used my portable GPS many times on AA flights, and I have been told twice, quite sternly I might add, to turn it off. I do not know of any other airlines that prohibit GPS.

IMHO, airlines should WELCOME portable GPS units. They pose absolutely no danger to any on-board electronic systems, since they are receivers, not transmitters, and any EMF field they emit is incredibly tiny. If passengers had them on board on 9/11, they might have been able to figure out the upcoming events, and even prevented them, as the cell-phone using passengers were able to do on the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania.

Not only that, as other postings have said, they are just plain FUN on airplanes.

How can we convince AA to allow GPS on their flights?

Some passengers did have them, I believe that was part of the problem. It's sort of how they got to the World Trade Center.

The people with cell phones figured it out because the other two planes had already crashed into the towers and people were told what had happended. Everybody on board could have had a GPS on those two planes, I know that my unit tells me where I am, not where I am going to. It never would have predicted they were flying into a building.

GPS would have done nothing to help the people in the first two planes, that's the silliest statement I've ever seen here.

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif

Can anyone recommend good high-resolution mapping software for my laptop, compatable with a Garmin III+? I already have most of the Garmin Map Source CDs and Delorme Street Atlas. I'm really looking for a more global physical mapping software, similar to Topo USA, but worldwide. Thanks.