Visconti

Isquare's experience reminds me of something that happened several years ago that I still find peculiar, even to this day.

Had a scheduled trip to Shanghai, had to get a Visa at the PRC consulate and had an invitation to some events. A few days later, I could have sworn a MSS Agent struck up a convo with me trying to engage in myriad of peculiar topics. On the return flight, I could have sworn my seatmate was some member of American intelligence engaging me in, again, small talk on a myriad of peculiar topics. The entire trip seemed very strange, and I was almost paranoid in my hotel room.

Disembarking at JFK, through GE with nothing to declare, and wham--CBP Agents meet me and "invite" me for a survey. They went through every single receipt in my roller. To this day, it's the strangest experience I've ever had. As had been the case with Isquare, I get a tag team of open ended questions, even about the kind of watch I had been wearing.

It was truly bizarre.

StuckInYYZ

Lol, as I mentioned before... just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. My last few trips, in the before time, I was selected for a bit more inspection on the outbound (TPE, PEK and SIN)... the guards were nice but all three times had the scattershot scanner and an inspection of my backpack (didn't power up the laptop or look in my phone). I'm fully expecting to be inspected again on my next outbound. No clue what they were looking for and what triggered them. Generally I keep to myself on the plane (once we're up in the air, my headphones go on, only coming off to talk to the cabin crew...gotta be polite about it).

Other than that, only really questioned (the usual and maybe one or two things about my "IT" work) by American border patrol people.

lsquare

So here’s an update for anyone that cares about this kind of stuff. Maybe I’m paranoid, but I asked an acquaintance of mine who is a lawyer. I told him everything, which included what I posted on FT and then some. Long story short, what CBP did was legal. Wowsers. I was stunned when he told me that. I was so taken aback that I was at a loss for words. All the questions they had asked me including highly personal questions are legal. The search was legal. He said Americans can’t be denied entry back into the US, but if you’re not, then you can be denied entry. My conclusion now is that CBP can do whatever they want at the border.

Visconti

Ah, that's my understanding. The border before one officially enters into the United States is where the Fed Gov't has plenary power, and, even as US Citizens, the Bill of Rights doesn't apply. As US Citizens, we cannot be refused entry, but CBP has the power and legal authority, as I understand it, to question and search us at their discretion. However, if during that process any kind of potential legal jeopardy is unearthed, we can then request counsel.

So, yeah, when entering the USA, not only must you play ball, but you had better not lie about anything material.

stevebintley

Until the laptop you backed up on was in the bag which got stolen. Or one does backup to the cloud, only to realise your iCloud credentials were stored in Keychain, and now you have no devices to recover from. Not everyone considers having multiple Apple devices and leaving one remote from their current location, unfortunately.

Speaking from experience, there’s a need to think through your DR strategy as it’s so inconvenient when it happens.

nk15

One immediate decision is should I delay erasing the lost/stolen device so I can track it and/call it, or should I remote erase it immediately. I guess if stolen you have to erase relatively quickly, within an hour or so.

JackMackey

It's really in defense for the most likely event of losing the phone overseas or far from home and getting a new one. It's also backed up at home. I do travel with a iPad so erasing the phone is also part of it. My experience comes from losing a previously one and not having a back up so the Apple store wiped it and the replacement didn't have all set up as the original. My iCloud backup is only the most basic stuff.

frappant

depending on the phone, thief can’t access the data.

they can’t view or erase data without iCloud activation lock being unlocked in the case of iPhones going back 5 years or so.

people who’ve lost or had iPhones stolen get emails or messages trying to get the owner to unlock with fake iCloud websites.

I would assume recent Android devices have something similar.

As far as carrying two phones, is anyone traveling with two phones with active service? Seems like you’d at least need to keep phones up to date so you could switch to backup and start using it right away.

On the issue of CBP demanding you unlock or confiscating, supposedly they can’t in the Ninth Circuit, which would be Western states so if your port of entry is SFO, they won’t do the things you hear about.

lsquare

Source?

Visconti

If I recall, the decision was that though the CBP may copy or confiscate one's phone, they can't demand your password as a condition of entry. For that reason, when traveling abroad, I'll always disable the face or finger print features on my devices, and use password only.

PS - They can of course demand anything, but, in the case of unlocking, you may refuse. With what appears to me the gazillion of lawyers on FT, perhaps one of them can provide some clarity on this pro-bono.

GUWonder

One of my favorites:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/0...evice-searches

A concern, however, should remain even if coming and going via the areas under the 9th circuit. That's because there remain two sides to cross-border trips, and cross-border coordination by government actors does happen.

StuckInYYZ

In general, I usually check for upgrades the day before/of departing. Depending on where you go, you may not be able to check for updates (eg, China and anything Google related)..

That said, once done, I disable any auto updates (OS and application) if I'm going somewhere where the authorities have been known to restrict access in case of an "update" getting spoofed and installed.