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-   -   Does anyone bring a spare phone on trips? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-technology/2094541-does-anyone-bring-spare-phone-trips.html)

JackMackey Sep 27, 2022 9:52 am

Not any more. I have an iPhone and do a back up via iTunes on my laptop with the thought if the phone is ever lost I would just buy a new one and restore it. I would use the iPad to erase it, if needed.

lsquare Sep 28, 2022 1:22 am

Yes, and I've been traveling with two and most recently three phones. However, and I'm thinking of creating a thread about this, is that it can invite scrutiny when coming back to the US. I've been flying since 1989 and never had any issues with CBP until last week at SFO. It felt like an interrogation in the open. It's tempting to call the agent a biatch just because of her aggressive questioning. She doesn't seem to understand why I have three phones with different sim cards (iPhone 14 Pro, Samsung Galaxy S8, and a Pixel 2 XL). She came across as someone who has a preconceived notion as to what's normal to bring on a trip and what not. I also had a GPS device and she thought it was a satellite phone. She had to bring in a colleague to scrutinize the devices. Basically, everything was then removed from my backpack and suitcase and placed on the platform. Then I was asked really personal questions including finances and my marital status. I don't even know if these questions are legal to ask, but I complied since I understand how much power these agents have.

nk15 Sep 28, 2022 7:36 am

They are probably trained that too many phones = suspicious... You're lucky that they did not ask to copy the contents of the phones. I believe they can confiscate all your electronics, if they want.

TGarza Sep 28, 2022 5:48 pm


Originally Posted by nk15 (Post 34637601)
They are probably trained that too many phones = suspicious... You're lucky that they did not ask to copy the contents of the phones. I believe they can confiscate all your electronics, if they want.


yep, all he was missing for the DEA to be dispatched was a wad of $$$.

StuckInYYZ Sep 28, 2022 6:42 pm


Originally Posted by nk15 (Post 34637601)
They are probably trained that too many phones = suspicious... You're lucky that they did not ask to copy the contents of the phones. I believe they can confiscate all your electronics, if they want.

That's why people should practice good phone hygiene (although that might raise suspicions as well). I generally offload stuff from my phone given the opportunity and store it in the cloud until I am not in transit and can get it secured). Private stuff I try not to put on the phones and usually have it encrypted just in case my laptop is stolen or seized. Might make me sound paranoid, but just because you don't know it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :cool:

lsquare Sep 28, 2022 6:44 pm


Originally Posted by TGarza (Post 34639336)
yep, all he was missing for the DEA to be dispatched was a wad of $$$.

They literally made me take everything out. There was nothing to hide. I only had S$40 and like US$10 on me. DEA can't do anything to me. They also have no grounds to arrest me.

lsquare Sep 28, 2022 6:46 pm


Originally Posted by StuckInYYZ (Post 34639463)
That's why people should practice good phone hygiene (although that might raise suspicions as well). I generally offload stuff from my phone given the opportunity and store it in the cloud until I am not in transit and can get it secured). Private stuff I try not to put on the phones and usually have it encrypted just in case my laptop is stolen or seized. Might make me sound paranoid, but just because you don't know it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :cool:

You would have been paranoid if you were in my shoes at SFO. Literally, everything in my suitcase and backpack was taken out for search and inspection. The only thing that wasn't done was copying data from my cell phones.

StuckInYYZ Sep 28, 2022 8:57 pm


Originally Posted by lsquare (Post 34639475)
You would have been paranoid if you were in my shoes at SFO. Literally, everything in my suitcase and backpack was taken out for search and inspection. The only thing that wasn't done was copying data from my cell phones.

It would not surprise me. It's one of the reasons why I prefer not to transit through the US whenever possible. Don't get me wrong, I have many american friends, but I've hit the surly american customs agent a few too many times that I avoid going through the US if I have the choice. Given the choice, my preference is go through YVR or TPE or Japan or Korea.

Although that said, I've hit quite a few unfriendly CBSA agents... but I can't avoid those.

lsquare Sep 28, 2022 9:54 pm


Originally Posted by StuckInYYZ (Post 34639718)
It would not surprise me. It's one of the reasons why I prefer not to transit through the US whenever possible. Don't get me wrong, I have many american friends, but I've hit the surly american customs agent a few too many times that I avoid going through the US if I have the choice. Given the choice, my preference is go through YVR or TPE or Japan or Korea.

Although that said, I've hit quite a few unfriendly CBSA agents... but I can't avoid those.

CBSA also has vast powers at the border. They can also seize electronic devices and copy the data. If you transit through the US, there's the risk you can be searched twice.

StuckInYYZ Sep 28, 2022 10:19 pm


Originally Posted by lsquare (Post 34639803)
CBSA also has vast powers at the border. They can also seize electronic devices and copy the data. If you transit through the US, there's the risk you can be searched twice.

Oh, I know. But I can't avoid CBSA. I can minimize entering the US. Regardless, there is generally little information I'm going to hide on my laptop/phones. Except for my passwords, Everything else can be considered "disposable" and can be taken care of before hitting immigration/inspection (although I usually have it done before boarding the plane). I try to be organized and disciplined about my security (paranoia) when traveling.

GUWonder Sep 29, 2022 3:41 am

[MENTION=270159]lsquare[/MENTION], did they mention anything about you being flagged for a "survey"?


Originally Posted by nk15 (Post 34637601)
They are probably trained that too many phones = suspicious... You're lucky that they did not ask to copy the contents of the phones. I believe they can confiscate all your electronics, if they want.

People who are inclined to find someone or something suspect -- for whatever reason -- will apply their suspect suspicions and come up seeing suspicious things no matter what the targets of their suspicions possess/do. Confirmation bias-seeking behavior by CBP? Can't rule it out given DHS/CBP were advocates of racist profiling at a time when there was a more senior push to rein in racist behavior by law enforcement personnel while on the clock.

I know there was a time when most of the imaging of international arrival passengers' phones that has gone on for devices taken at the international airports covered by the Baltimore field operations office -- and that includes IAD too -- were situations where the passengers had only one phone in possession to image and then return.

lsquare Sep 29, 2022 4:16 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 34640227)
[MENTION=270159]lsquare[/MENTION], did they mention anything about you being flagged for a "survey"?



People who are inclined to find someone or something suspect -- for whatever reason -- will apply their suspect suspicions and come up seeing suspicious things no matter what the targets of their suspicions possess/do. Confirmation bias-seeking behavior by CBP? Can't rule it out given DHS/CBP were advocates of racist profiling at a time when there was a more senior push to rein in racist behavior by law enforcement personnel while on the clock.

I know there was a time when most of the imaging of international arrival passengers' phones that has gone on for devices taken at the international airports covered by the Baltimore field operations office -- and that includes IAD too -- were situations where the passengers had only one phone in possession to image and then return.

No, she said the “size of my suitcase” caught her attention. It’s a 28” suitcase that I have used for years. I couldn’t be bothered to buy something smaller even if it’s for a short trip. I am DL Diamond and UA 1K so I get my luggage pretty quickly anyways. Her approach is problematic because there’s no law that states what the appropriate size for a suitcase should be for a short trip. Does it matter I have enough underwear for a week-long trip even though I left the US for two days? My explanation was that I am one of those people that have everything in a suitcase because I am forgetful. That is the truth. I more or less pack way in advance and generally have the outline of what I need whether it’s for one or two weeks. I don’t really unpack when I return from a trip except to take out the dirty clothes. The phone chargers, shampoo, and whatever necessity stay inside the suitcase so I don’t need to repackage them later. I don’t think my suitcase is any heavier to carry having extra clothes. She disagreed. What’s the problem with having three phones? I like having a backup phone. I like having the SIMs inside the phone so I have something that I can immediately use. Again, why is this “suspicious” behavior? I don’t really have time or desire to type all the crap that she said, but I felt she abused her power and is trying to get me to talk by asking lots of open-ended questions. I really do think she was trying to go on a fishing expedition. She even brought her colleague who asked his own series of questions. They asked what my hobbies are. I like to take pictures, but apparently, because I don’t have a specific genre that I specialize in, the guy said that is weird. He said generally people focus on portraits, travel, etc. It felt ridiculous. So the fact that my responses don’t fit their definition of what is normal or typical fuels their suspicions. I don’t know if that was their own personality or if their training taught them to behave like that. I felt like I was in a no-win situation. In the end, they found no contraband. They found no evidence of smuggling. Everything I declared panned out. Somehow my finances and my marital status were asked. W-T-F? How is any of this related and crucial to the security of the US? What’s next? Do I need to produce evidence of my finances or my pay stubs? Is any of their conduct legal? I’m still mad at how intrusive the search was, especially the questioning. I really want to file a complaint, but I need to do more research before I go ahead. You mentioned confirmation bias and that’s how I felt. If this was real life and not at SFO, I would have told the midget to eff off. Maybe I would have smacked her colleague as well. Both of them sounded and talked really tough, but obviously, I was in no real position to challenge them. And yes, I shouldn’t talk about violence, but that’s how mad I was. Believe me, I have a size advantage over both of them and they wouldn’t talk to me like that if they weren’t CBP.

GUWonder Sep 29, 2022 4:28 am

Too much behavior by border control types is "legal" at US ports of entry (and exit), even as I don't like it one iota. It's actually this kind of unwelcoming possibility with border control types in too many places that has me carrying multiple phones and having some limited distaste for transporting physical SIMs.

lsquare Sep 29, 2022 4:39 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 34640282)
Too much behavior by border control types is "legal" at US ports of entry (and exit), even as I don't like it one iota. It's actually this kind of unwelcoming possibility with border control types in too many places that has me carrying multiple phones and having some limited distaste for transporting physical SIMs.

I'm not a lawyer so I was in no position to challenge them and the legality of the questions they asked me. I just went with the advice that compliance was the only real way to exit the airport and not arrested. As I said, other than a strip search and my phones imaged, they had everything in plain sight. No grounds to arrest me or else I wouldn't be sitting here responding to your message. I think someone from Congress is working on reining in CBP's data retention policy and I think their ability to image Americans' devices without a warrant. My experience with CBP last week leads me to think that they most likely unofficially go on fishing expeditions. That's why so many open-ended questions are asked. They're trying to trip me up and catch me stumbling in my response and hopefully use that as a justification to escalate the encounter. Let's say I was sexting with my gf and those messages are on my phone. If CBP obtained them, could that get me in trouble? I think CBP should stick to preventing smuggling and ensuring the security of the border rather than worrying what my gross salary is, who I'm sleeping with, or whether I am married or not. I'll be going back to Singapore next week and returning via SFO. Without a doubt, what's in my suitcase and backpack will change as a result of that experience. I may bring just two phones instead of three. Future trips will never be the same again as I'll need to prepare for the very likely possibility of being searched and questioned again. I'll be ready for that midget if I see her again next week.

StuckInYYZ Sep 29, 2022 12:47 pm


Originally Posted by lsquare (Post 34640297)
I'm not a lawyer so I was in no position to challenge them and the legality of the questions they asked me. I just went with the advice that compliance was the only real way to exit the airport and not arrested. As I said, other than a strip search and my phones imaged, they had everything in plain sight. No grounds to arrest me or else I wouldn't be sitting here responding to your message. I think someone from Congress is working on reining in CBP's data retention policy and I think their ability to image Americans' devices without a warrant. My experience with CBP last week leads me to think that they most likely unofficially go on fishing expeditions. That's why so many open-ended questions are asked. They're trying to trip me up and catch me stumbling in my response and hopefully use that as a justification to escalate the encounter. Let's say I was sexting with my gf and those messages are on my phone. If CBP obtained them, could that get me in trouble? I think CBP should stick to preventing smuggling and ensuring the security of the border rather than worrying what my gross salary is, who I'm sleeping with, or whether I am married or not. I'll be going back to Singapore next week and returning via SFO. Without a doubt, what's in my suitcase and backpack will change as a result of that experience. I may bring just two phones instead of three. Future trips will never be the same again as I'll need to prepare for the very likely possibility of being searched and questioned again. I'll be ready for that midget if I see her again next week.

There's a multitude of scenarios that this could be (including behavioral analysis). They could be watching how you react (even if it's with a hostile or offended look). With tensions cranked up in Asia in general, they could be fishing (as you suggest) or looking for something specific.

If I might make a suggestion. If you don't need the third phone elsewhere, is there a place you could leave it in Singapore (if that's where you primarily go) or is that too inconvenient? Somewhere like a satellite office or if you are on REALLY good terms with wherever you normally stay while there? Kind of a hassle, but might make sense if you're there often enough.

I know my employer is cracking down on taking company stuff out of region (eg, going on vacation and taking your work phone to Europe or Asia just to keep abreast of things). That's fine with me as my manager can reach me if there is an emergency, Unfortunately I would only be able to talk them through things (if possible) if there is an issue, but if that's how they want to do things, C'est la vie..


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