Apple Air Tags

Old May 5, 21, 6:15 pm
  #121  
 
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Originally Posted by exp View Post
Sounds like people can stalk their spouses or parents can stalk their kids then.
Or pretty much anyone's car. I think, currently, unless the Airtag comes home with you, it doesn't alert you that you are being stalked even though it follows your car the entire day. It basically treats it as you were on a public transportation with a lost Airtag in a bag nearby the entire time. So if you park your car on the street or at an assigned parking further away from your "home" location, you wouldn't know that your car is bugged.
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Old May 5, 21, 6:23 pm
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Need View Post
My wife and son' Apple IDs have a home address. I think when you create an Apple ID it askes for your home address and you have to fill it in. And you have to log in to your Apple ID on the iPhone if you want to use Facetime or App Store or some other things.
I checked one of my loaner iPhones and it's got a former foreign vacation home down as the "home" location. Perhaps it was set by someone when using the map feature, but it wouldn't have been an address set up when the AppleID was setup and being used for FaceTime, the App Store, etc.
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Old May 5, 21, 6:34 pm
  #123  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
I checked one of my loaner iPhones and it's got a former foreign vacation home down as the "home" location. Perhaps it was set by someone when using the map feature, but it wouldn't have been an address set up when the AppleID was setup and being used for FaceTime, the App Store, etc.
Does it mean you will never find out if you are being stalked?
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Old May 5, 21, 6:53 pm
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Need View Post
Does it mean you will never find out if you are being stalked?
The device has had all the location stuff off for years and the internet connectivity is all routed via a VPN. What would that do for locating the geographic position of someone carrying an AirTag if there were no other Apple devices around? Sounds to me like the "Find My" stuff being active on other people's devices is as much or more of an enabler of stalking someone with an AirTag than just having an AirTag.
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Old May 5, 21, 9:59 pm
  #125  
 
 
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Originally Posted by Need View Post
Thanks! Yeah it looks like about the size of an average city? Although I am surprised that there are actually 199 tile users in that small an area at Maui. That's pretty cool.
Makawao? Not a city .. Google: US Census data 2019, pop 7391

-David
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Old May 5, 21, 10:18 pm
  #126  
 
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
And does Apple sort of push its iOS device user to have the Find My stuff on and keep it on?
Yes, because besides tracking it, you can put the lost device (iphone, ipad, ipod, mac) in lost mode (optionally with a message) or remote erase it. And with find my enabled on a device, you can't reset it. So you always have to turn that off before erasing it and selling or trading it in or sending it in for repair.

But you aren't required to turn it on or keep it on, it's just a setting.

But with AirTags, you can't do any of that to your keys or make your luggage self destruct (there's an idea, the C-4 enabled version .. coming soon?)

Android has something similar I'm sure.

-David
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Old May 6, 21, 5:51 am
  #127  
 
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Find My is a set and forget toggle in the Settings App. It requires the iCloud password to enable/disable it and even has a confirmation popup when you wish to disable it. I think it was in response to all the snatch & grab thefts of iPhones back around 2009-2010 on the street. Thieves would just wipe the phone and resell them and it was quite the cottage industry. They became much less of a target when the phone could not be reset for a new user.

I have my doubts about it being that big of a deterrent to stalking, but I cannot imagine any better system, and apparently neither can Apple.

My account currently shows 11 device locations, iPads, iPhones and even down to even my AirPods. Surprisingly, my 2 AirTags are in a different tab, not with the other devices. I think I have only needed it a few times, but it is golden if you do need it.

I do use it maybe once a month tops, typically waiting for my wife to meet me somewhere (She Is Usually Late!) so I don't have to text her when she's driving.
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Old May 6, 21, 9:57 am
  #128  
 
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Originally Posted by Need View Post
The real normal users tests are coming in. Here is one that also confirm about the "home" location is where you get notified of being stalked. Another note is that if you share the same home location as the person you are tracking, he/she won't even know about the tracking after coming home.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jScSpxvUlrY
Not true unfortunately. I was with my wife all weekend at our home. She has the same address on her "My info" card in her Phone as me. She got a notification that my "keys" (which were in my pocket) were tracking her. Maybe we found a bug, but at least for us, the same home location thing didn't prevent tracking alerts.
We were out and about together shopping and walking the dog. When she got the notification, it showed her our track around the neighborhood with the dog. Luckily, she was able to disable any future tracking alerts for this device. I do with Apple implemented the Family "sharing" on these.
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Old May 6, 21, 12:28 pm
  #129  
 
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Originally Posted by LordHamster View Post
Not true unfortunately. I was with my wife all weekend at our home. She has the same address on her "My info" card in her Phone as me. She got a notification that my "keys" (which were in my pocket) were tracking her. Maybe we found a bug, but at least for us, the same home location thing didn't prevent tracking alerts.
We were out and about together shopping and walking the dog. When she got the notification, it showed her our track around the neighborhood with the dog. Luckily, she was able to disable any future tracking alerts for this device. I do with Apple implemented the Family "sharing" on these.
Did she get the notification while you guys were still out walking around or after your guys got home? Do your iPhone and your wife's iPhone have the same Home address in Apple Map app?
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Old May 6, 21, 1:27 pm
  #130  
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Originally Posted by LIH Prem View Post
Yes, because besides tracking it, you can put the lost device (iphone, ipad, ipod, mac) in lost mode (optionally with a message) or remote erase it. And with find my enabled on a device, you can't reset it. So you always have to turn that off before erasing it and selling or trading it in or sending it in for repair.

But you aren't required to turn it on or keep it on, it's just a setting.
Thank you for walking in the direction I desired.

It's settings indeed, but not all iOS setting arrangements -- as set by or incentivized by Apple -- are equal.

It seems like Apple is sort of pushing its customers to be part of a crowdsourced surveillance network almost by default when it comes to the Find My kind of things. And unlike with what Apple does with Apple's Find My things, when it comes to non-Apple apps on the iOS devices -- such as the Tile App -- Apple does more to make it easier and more likely for device users to opt-out of being part of non-Apple crowdsourced surveillance networks.

Seems to me like there is some privacy and anti-stalking hypocrisy coming from Apple when it comes to AirTags given the practical implementation of Apple's Find My type stuff. Apple crowdsourced tracking network, good? Non-Apple crowdsourced tracking network, bad?
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Old May 6, 21, 3:22 pm
  #131  
 
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Well, that may be true. But to be fair, Tile was touting crowdsourcing with their Tile network weren't they? However, hasn't Apple opened up their iCloud tracking to devices that include the U1 Wide Band chip, like Chipolo's new One Spot device? I haven't read too much about that, and what AirTag functions it may mirror. It just seems to me if Tile wants to stay relevant, they grudgingly might need to get on board the Apple train and get back to business. They seem to have a viable product line, that could still do well. Seems like pride still comes before a fall to me.
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Old May 6, 21, 6:31 pm
  #132  
 
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Thank you for walking in the direction I desired.

It's settings indeed, but not all iOS setting arrangements -- as set by or incentivized by Apple -- are equal.

It seems like Apple is sort of pushing its customers to be part of a crowdsourced surveillance network almost by default when it comes to the Find My kind of things. And unlike with what Apple does with Apple's Find My things, when it comes to non-Apple apps on the iOS devices -- such as the Tile App -- Apple does more to make it easier and more likely for device users to opt-out of being part of non-Apple crowdsourced surveillance networks.

Seems to me like there is some privacy and anti-stalking hypocrisy coming from Apple when it comes to AirTags given the practical implementation of Apple's Find My type stuff. Apple crowdsourced tracking network, good? Non-Apple crowdsourced tracking network, bad?
haha, I knew where you were going with that, but I look at it differently.

They have an infrastructure and allow you to opt in or out of it. So there's a choice, if you opt in you get benefits of the infrastructure, opt out and you can believe that you are preserving your privacy, but cell phones don't need to be part of that infrastructure to be tracked. They give you the choice for the non-cellular signal part of it at least.

-David
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Old May 7, 21, 10:19 am
  #133  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Thank you for walking in the direction I desired.

It's settings indeed, but not all iOS setting arrangements -- as set by or incentivized by Apple -- are equal.

It seems like Apple is sort of pushing its customers to be part of a crowdsourced surveillance network almost by default when it comes to the Find My kind of things. And unlike with what Apple does with Apple's Find My things, when it comes to non-Apple apps on the iOS devices -- such as the Tile App -- Apple does more to make it easier and more likely for device users to opt-out of being part of non-Apple crowdsourced surveillance networks.

Seems to me like there is some privacy and anti-stalking hypocrisy coming from Apple when it comes to AirTags given the practical implementation of Apple's Find My type stuff. Apple crowdsourced tracking network, good? Non-Apple crowdsourced tracking network, bad?
I don't know how Tile works, but it seems Apple is doing a decent job at trying to ensure that only the owner of a device can find that device. Calling it a "surveillance" network seems to be an overstatement.

https://support.apple.com/guide/secu...c6cbc80fd0/web
In addition to making sure that location information and other data are fully encrypted, participants’ identities remain private from each other and from Apple. The traffic sent to Apple by finder devices contains no authentication information in the contents or headers. As a result, Apple doesn’t know who the finder is or whose device has been found. Further, Apple doesn’t log information that would reveal the identity of the finder and retains no information that would allow anyone to correlate the finder and owner. The device owner receives only the encrypted location information that’s decrypted and displayed in the Find My app with no indication as to who found the device.
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Old May 7, 21, 11:29 am
  #134  
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Without the Apple crowdsourced surveillance network — as set up by Apple’s “Find My” arrangement on Apple devices — what’s AirTags compelling selling point?

Calling it a crowdsourced surveillance network isn’t an overstatement, as AirTags is relying upon Apple's crowdsourced surveillance network to give AirTags much of whatever compelling value there is in it for its users. Without the Apple "Find My"-enabled crowdsourced surveillance network, the Apple trackers wouldn't really be effective trackers at any substantial distance. Trackers are only as effective as they can be surveilled or surveil.

Tile says much the same kind of thing as Apple about its crowdsourced surveillance network operation, but they both sell their trackers on the basis that they have a crowdsourced surveillance network that works even as they won't call a crowdsourced surveillance network what it is: a crowdsourced surveillance network.

That a crowdsourced surveillance network operation has some built-in protections for some privacy doesn't eliminate the nature of the crowded surveillance network being a crowdsourced surveillance network.

Last edited by GUWonder; May 7, 21 at 11:35 am
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Old May 7, 21, 12:37 pm
  #135  
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It's literally the definition of "network effects" to encourage users to stay in an ecosystem.

They priced it so they're an impulse buy, for people to play around with.

I'm sure a fair number of people who don't lose their keys will attach them to their keychains.

Then they will forget about it.

But it's smart, after having a niche of the desktop market, now they're trying to leverage a huge installed base.

They may not even be profitable at $25 or $29. But probably will help keep people in the ecosystem. It's not AirTags but AirTags, plus iMessage, plus FaceTime, plus ApplePay, etc.
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