WhatsApp changing terms and conditions
Jan 8, 2021, 11:33 am
#16
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DAL
Posts: 1,444
In the context of the screenshot I posted, this is what "Data linked to you" means: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT211970
Jan 8, 2021, 11:37 am
#17
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Signal has to collect data linked to the user in order identify the recipient for message relays. The messaging app isn’t a TOR messenger. Their privacy statement for Signal is incomplete after reading the Apple link. I have no doubt Signal collects less than Facebook who collects information on non users.
Can Signal's servers see my Signal Profile?
The Signal service does not have any knowledge of the name you have chosen or the image you have set. Your profile information is end-to-end encrypted with a unique profile key that is securely shared via the same Signal Protocol messaging channel that already protects your conversations and calls.
ETA: Or maybe this helps:
Does Signal send my number to my contacts?
Signal does not send your phone number to anyone unless you send them a message or make a call to them. The Signal service does not have any knowledge of your contacts. Data is all owned by your phone. Registration notifications are never transmitted by anyone in any direction at all; these notifications are created by your phone.
Jan 8, 2021, 2:12 pm
#18
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Encrypted messaging app Signal faced big delays in verifying the phone numbers of new accounts on Thursday because of a sudden surge in people trying to join the platform.
In messages posted from its official Twitter account, the non-profit Signal Foundation said verification codes were delayed across several cellular networks, and that it was working through the backlog as quickly as it could.
Verification codes are currently delayed across several providers because so many new people are trying to join Signal right now (we can barely register our excitement). We are working with carriers to resolve this as quickly as possible. Hang in there. — Signal (@signalapp) January 7, 2021
While the issue is now said to have been resolved, the surge in Signal signups followed recent privacy policy changes highlighted by rival messaging platform WhatsApp.
In messages posted from its official Twitter account, the non-profit Signal Foundation said verification codes were delayed across several cellular networks, and that it was working through the backlog as quickly as it could.
Verification codes are currently delayed across several providers because so many new people are trying to join Signal right now (we can barely register our excitement). We are working with carriers to resolve this as quickly as possible. Hang in there. — Signal (@signalapp) January 7, 2021
While the issue is now said to have been resolved, the surge in Signal signups followed recent privacy policy changes highlighted by rival messaging platform WhatsApp.
Apparently Elon Musk and Edward Snowden have both been freshly pushing Signal app use in public. I am thankful for Brian Acton, WhatsApp's co-founder, for Signal now too.
Jan 8, 2021, 2:35 pm
#19
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Signal had such a big surge in users due to this Facebook change to WhatsApp that it has caused a Signal slowndown in parts:
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/08...surge-signups/
Apparently Elon Musk and Edward Snowden have both been freshly pushing Signal app use in public. I am thankful for Brian Acton, WhatsApp's co-founder, for Signal now too.
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/08...surge-signups/
Apparently Elon Musk and Edward Snowden have both been freshly pushing Signal app use in public. I am thankful for Brian Acton, WhatsApp's co-founder, for Signal now too.
Only problem is now getting my Whatsapp people to move over... which I find akin to telling someone to adopt a different lifestyle (i.e. difficult, if not impossible, AF).
Jan 8, 2021, 2:56 pm
#20
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Right. Maybe I should give Signal another try then. Although as per upthread, my iPhone is a bit older.
Only problem is now getting my Whatsapp people to move over... which I find akin to telling someone to adopt a different lifestyle (i.e. difficult, if not impossible, AF).
Only problem is now getting my Whatsapp people to move over... which I find akin to telling someone to adopt a different lifestyle (i.e. difficult, if not impossible, AF).
Jan 8, 2021, 3:09 pm
#21
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Most of my most frequent WhatsApp communication counterparts for discussion are iMessage/Facetime users too. Many of them seem to use 3/4/5/6+ communication apps; some using 3+ such apps each and every day. With the ability of people to turn notifications on, it seems people are now more willing and able to have multiple apps in use running in the background than used to be the case, resistance to uptake of a new app may be down. Add in all the WFH and other remote communications going on with apps/applications that weren't being used by many users at this time last year, and it seems people really are more willing to "use it all" more than was the case even at this time last year. Hopefully this means Signal uptake increases a lot more now than would have otherwise been the case.
Jan 12, 2021, 7:58 pm
#22
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I've only used WA to communicate with hotels and B&Bs overseas, so that I didn't have to make an international call nor they had to in order to contact me.
IIRC, I registered only with my phone number. WA at the time didn't require that I log in with FB or anything.
Is that no longer the case with these new terms?
Or can WA still send data to FB and Messenger apps? Or these apps are able to identify each other on the same device and link phone numbers with FB IDs and such, even if you don't give permission to the apps to access address books and such?
IIRC, I registered only with my phone number. WA at the time didn't require that I log in with FB or anything.
Is that no longer the case with these new terms?
Or can WA still send data to FB and Messenger apps? Or these apps are able to identify each other on the same device and link phone numbers with FB IDs and such, even if you don't give permission to the apps to access address books and such?
Jan 12, 2021, 10:31 pm
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
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I've only used WA to communicate with hotels and B&Bs overseas, so that I didn't have to make an international call nor they had to in order to contact me.
IIRC, I registered only with my phone number. WA at the time didn't require that I log in with FB or anything.
Is that no longer the case with these new terms?
Or can WA still send data to FB and Messenger apps? Or these apps are able to identify each other on the same device and link phone numbers with FB IDs and such, even if you don't give permission to the apps to access address books and such?
IIRC, I registered only with my phone number. WA at the time didn't require that I log in with FB or anything.
Is that no longer the case with these new terms?
Or can WA still send data to FB and Messenger apps? Or these apps are able to identify each other on the same device and link phone numbers with FB IDs and such, even if you don't give permission to the apps to access address books and such?
Jan 13, 2021, 1:13 am
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: where lions are led by donkeys...
Programs: Lifetime Gold, Global Entry, Hertz PC, and my wallet
Posts: 20,340
I've only used WA to communicate with hotels and B&Bs overseas, so that I didn't have to make an international call nor they had to in order to contact me.
IIRC, I registered only with my phone number. WA at the time didn't require that I log in with FB or anything.
Is that no longer the case with these new terms?
Or can WA still send data to FB and Messenger apps? Or these apps are able to identify each other on the same device and link phone numbers with FB IDs and such, even if you don't give permission to the apps to access address books and such?
IIRC, I registered only with my phone number. WA at the time didn't require that I log in with FB or anything.
Is that no longer the case with these new terms?
Or can WA still send data to FB and Messenger apps? Or these apps are able to identify each other on the same device and link phone numbers with FB IDs and such, even if you don't give permission to the apps to access address books and such?
Businesses On WhatsApp. Businesses you interact with using our Services may provide us with information about their interactions with you. We require each of these businesses to act in accordance with applicable law when providing any information to us.
- When you message with a business on WhatsApp, keep in mind that the content you share may be visible to several people in that business. In addition, some businesses might be working with third-party service providers (which may include Facebook) to help manage their communications with their customers. For example, a business may give such third-party service provider access to its communications to send, store, read, manage, or otherwise process them for the business. To understand how a business processes your information, including how it might share your information with third parties or Facebook, you should review that business’ privacy policy or contact the business directly.
- Third-Party Service Providers. We work with third-party service providers and other Facebook Companies to help us operate, provide, improve, understand, customize, support, and market our Services. For example, we work with them to distribute our apps; provide our technical and physical infrastructure, delivery, and other systems; provide engineering support, cybersecurity support, and operational support; supply location, map, and places information; process payments; help us understand how people use our Services; market our Services; help you connect with businesses using our Services; conduct surveys and research for us; ensure safety, security and integrity; and help with customer service. These companies may provide us with information about you in certain circumstances; for example, app stores may provide us with reports to help us diagnose and fix service issues.
Jan 13, 2021, 7:17 am
#25
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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I deleted WA ahead of the TOS changes (deleted FB coming up on 3 years ago) though Instagram is the one I can't delete so they've still got me there.
I started using WA extensively when I moved to an Android and coupled with international travel, WA was the best choice for communication. I've since moved back to an iPhone and everyone I know (and regularly chat with) has an iPhone as well so for now iMessage is sufficient, and will look at Signal down the line if we need something else.
Sad to see the demise of WA under the FB banner. I'm also reminded of the thread that brought WA to the FT community (well before I joined FT) and before Jan became a (many times over) billionaire:
Thoughts about my free iphone app - WhatsApp
I started using WA extensively when I moved to an Android and coupled with international travel, WA was the best choice for communication. I've since moved back to an iPhone and everyone I know (and regularly chat with) has an iPhone as well so for now iMessage is sufficient, and will look at Signal down the line if we need something else.
Sad to see the demise of WA under the FB banner. I'm also reminded of the thread that brought WA to the FT community (well before I joined FT) and before Jan became a (many times over) billionaire:
Thoughts about my free iphone app - WhatsApp
Jan 13, 2021, 8:16 am
#26
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DAL
Posts: 1,444
I only had a quick look, but this may provide the answer:
Can Signal's servers see my Signal Profile?
The Signal service does not have any knowledge of the name you have chosen or the image you have set. Your profile information is end-to-end encrypted with a unique profile key that is securely shared via the same Signal Protocol messaging channel that already protects your conversations and calls.
ETA: Or maybe this helps:
Does Signal send my number to my contacts?
Signal does not send your phone number to anyone unless you send them a message or make a call to them. The Signal service does not have any knowledge of your contacts. Data is all owned by your phone. Registration notifications are never transmitted by anyone in any direction at all; these notifications are created by your phone.
Can Signal's servers see my Signal Profile?
The Signal service does not have any knowledge of the name you have chosen or the image you have set. Your profile information is end-to-end encrypted with a unique profile key that is securely shared via the same Signal Protocol messaging channel that already protects your conversations and calls.
ETA: Or maybe this helps:
Does Signal send my number to my contacts?
Signal does not send your phone number to anyone unless you send them a message or make a call to them. The Signal service does not have any knowledge of your contacts. Data is all owned by your phone. Registration notifications are never transmitted by anyone in any direction at all; these notifications are created by your phone.
My son will be in Heidelberg for a year of college. I will ask him about using this app to keep in contact since Google Voice hasn’t updated their privacy statements.
Jan 14, 2021, 4:00 am
#27
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Signal, Telegram and Zoom seem to be the huge gainers from Facebook's WhatsApp privacy(-eroding) changes.
Signal (although not so much as with the following two), Telegram and Zoom have also seen gains from users upset about a mix of things that have gone on with Twitter, Facebook and other social media services.
What I find interesting is that Telegram is headquartered in Dubai in the UAE. The UAE is rather notorious for being paranoid about social media app use, even having a history of trying to block a variety of messaging apps and VOIP use. [I'm anything but very confident about "Dubai's 'free zone'" being really all that protective.]
Signal (although not so much as with the following two), Telegram and Zoom have also seen gains from users upset about a mix of things that have gone on with Twitter, Facebook and other social media services.
What I find interesting is that Telegram is headquartered in Dubai in the UAE. The UAE is rather notorious for being paranoid about social media app use, even having a history of trying to block a variety of messaging apps and VOIP use. [I'm anything but very confident about "Dubai's 'free zone'" being really all that protective.]
Jan 14, 2021, 4:23 am
#28
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DEL
Posts: 1,055
The gains for Telegram are baffling to me. I get why people wouldn't want Zuck to have any more of their data than he already has, but switching to an app whose messages aren't always end-to-end encrypted and that is based in a country without a lot of respect for privacy makes no sense. It's like deciding you drink too much beer and switching to whiskey.
I suspect some of Telegram's gains may be former Parler users in the U.S., not just people bailing on WhatsApp.
I suspect some of Telegram's gains may be former Parler users in the U.S., not just people bailing on WhatsApp.
Jan 14, 2021, 4:50 am
#29
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The gains for Telegram are baffling to me. I get why people wouldn't want Zuck to have any more of their data than he already has, but switching to an app whose messages aren't always end-to-end encrypted and that is based in a country without a lot of respect for privacy makes no sense. It's like deciding you drink too much beer and switching to whiskey.
I suspect some of Telegram's gains may be former Parler users in the U.S., not just people bailing on WhatsApp.
I suspect some of Telegram's gains may be former Parler users in the U.S., not just people bailing on WhatsApp.
Signal's gains are most impressive. Brian Acton must be quite amazed at how much more traction the app has suddenly gained this year. I hope he's ready for all the rest of the growth later this year, as network effects follow from the January (and perhaps also February) user base boost.
It would be interesting to see the regional breakdown in Signal's user base growth this year.
