superangrypenguin

Thanks. Would you get a X1 or a SP4?

nkedel

Below is relative to the current-3rd-gen X1 Carbon. For the new one, we'll have to see what the specs are but I suspect I'd get that.

If getting it right now, is the Surface Book not an option?

From what you've said, if I were you, and I could get the 16gb configuration of the Surface Pro 4 with a big enough storage, I'd go with that. 8GB + virtual machines blows.

OTOH, for me personally, while the SP4 would be a sweet second machine for travel, the 12.3" screen would be way, way too small for my daily driver, and the keyboard and pointing stick and the real buttons on the touchpad are all huge advantages to the X1.

While it's a bit of a bet on them coming out with a 16gb (or better yet larger) configuration, as I said, I'd wait for the next-gen systems in Jan/Feb if you can. Or look at the Surface Book if you can't (and it's your employer's money.)

If your employer offers it and you can't wait, you might also consider the T440p or T450s.

superangrypenguin

Thanks for your advice! My work demands are changing, so the compute demand for VMs is going out the door. The Surface Book is on backorder for employees, so i'd have to wait for Jan +, so that doesn't quite work.

The SP4 they'd give us would have 16gb of RAM, i5 though. The X1 would be configured with 8gb of RAM, but an i7.

I've never used a Surface pro on my lap, but I suspect that the X1 carbon is still better for that right?

Good catch on the screen size. I think i'll pick up a X1 carbon touch, barring any other feedback that you have to offer!

Cheers and thanks!

(the 3 options i have are the SP4, the X1 carbon touch or the W541 *yikes)

nkedel

Within the same generation, the difference between a dual-core i5 and a dual-core i7 is quite subtle. I haven't seen detailed benchmarks comparing the two, but I'd expect the 6th-generation i5 in the SP4 to outperform the 5th-generation i7 in the X1 (especially on video-intensive tasks), although not by a big margin. Passmark puts the 5th generation i7 barely faster:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?...0U+%40+2.60GHz
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?...0U+%40+2.40GHz

I haven't used the Surface Pro in my lap either, but the "type" keyboard on the SP3 I've spent a bit of time using was a barely-adequate substitute for a regular laptop keyboard and touchpad, and the X1 is better than average for small/ultrabook systems. (The thinner "touch" keyboard was awful.)

Welcome!

Between those three, I'd be waiting for Feb, myself

If forced, I'd take the W541. My last work machine WAS a W530.

ScottC

FWIW; those claiming that Bootcamp drivers are no problem on the Macbook are wrong - a fresh Bootcamp installation of Windows 10 on the new 12" Macbook is a pain in the rear - it lacks audio, Wi-Fi and display drivers, so you need to screw around with a USB Ethernet adapter to manually load drivers.

Also, the new Macbook, despite being USB-C doesn't like any standard USB-C chargers. It ONLY wants to charge off its own, despite using USB-C chargers with >13W capacity.

Additionally, when it is plugged into its own charger and going through the multi-port adapter, it creates so much interference that my wireless keyboard and mouse in the other room stop working.

Definitely not a good choice as an off-the-shelf Windows Ultrabook.

nkedel

boltjames

You forgot to blame the new MacBook for the Kennedy Assassination and Apollo 13.

Drivers: What? It takes 5 minutes to install the appropriate drivers via a download on the OSX side, a reboot, and an install on the Windows 10 side.

Charger: All notebooks come with a proprietary charger, so does the MacBook. My Sony VAIO chargers never were compatible with each other let alone Dell's or HP's. Straw grasp much?

Wireless Interference: That was funny. Props for the creativity. Apple, of all manufacturers, would have a quality issue like that? LOL. I use wireless keyboards, wireless mice, even a wi-fi ASUS pocket router that sits right on top of the MacBook's charger, zero issues after 100s of use examples.

Off The Shelf: No one said converting a MacBook to Windows 10 was an out-of-the-box experience. You need to invest an hour for the clean install and the drivers. Some buy a Ford and drive off the lot, some special order a BMW and wait 8 weeks for their Ultimate Driving Machine.

Special Note: I love how this is a TRAVEL forum and all the anti-MacBook rhetoric is on the grounds of everything except how it excels as a travel partner. Like an extra 30 minutes out of the box is some tremendous inconvenience, like we're not the types who will spend hours debating how many pairs of socks to pack while looking for a carry-on with a unique feature or a toiletry kit that fits in a certain open space between the shoes and the belt.

BJ

nkedel

...and Windows users complain about bloatware, and don't like it when I suggest "just do a clean install."

...and some people buy a SmartCar or Scion iQ and brag about how they can park it sideways.

Travel Technology has its own crew, and not everyone participating in this sub-forum is trying to optimize primarily for tiny-ness. For those that do, it's an interesting choice although not necessarily appropriate for everyone because of a processor that some people will find undersized even for "general use."

Even FT in general takes all kinds; I've kept status flying ULH coach, a couple-three times a year, for a decade and a half now. My packing needs are very different from someone who's on the road 250 days a year rather than 20-30.

superangrypenguin

Amen.

ScottC

WRONG. The Macbook 12 bootcamp driver package is a 924MB download, and takes over 40 minutes to install on the Windows side. Getting the Windows 10 ISO package installed also requires a $20 USB adapter or an $80 adapter if you want to keep it charged while doing the install (which BTW takes over 3 hours to do right).

The other paragraph is just silly. I merely came here to post my experience with the Macbook. Why you chose to get all upset about a factual post is beyond me.

WRONG again. The Macbook 12 is sold with a USB-C port. And even with a compliant charger, it doesn't work right. It apparently demands its own USB-C charger (for some reason). USB-C is not proprietary, it is an industry standard, Apple is a founding member, and apparently can't even get that right.

Are you calling me a liar? Both my Logitech and Microsoft keyboards stop working correctly when the Macbook is plugged in.

A pathetic example. A laptop is not a car.

The only "anti" rhetoric is coming from you, trying to defend a product, calling posters liars and posting downright incorrect information over and over again.

boltjames

My experience was different, it didn't take nearly as long. I have the most powerful MacBook 12 with the biggest SSD so perhaps that made the difference.

I bought the HDMI adapter from the git-go as I knew I'd need some backwards compatibility, I factored it into the purchase price. And because I always need an occasional ethernet connection (I travel to China quite frequently) and my Sony Pro 13 didn't have an ethernet port either, I already owned a USB ethernet adapter.

The MacBook 12 comes with a properly functional, fast-charging power supply. Your point seems to be that Apple should be punished for not being able to trickle-charge its notebook with an ordinary USB-C adapter just because it's USB-C compatible. Do you criticize the iPad for needing a more powerful charger than an iPhone does?

No, not calling you a liar and apologize if you took it that way. What I was saying, perhaps too vaguely, is that I frequent MacBook and Windows 10 forums quite frequently and this interference claim isn't something that's ever come to my attention, if it does exist it must be with a very small subset of users.

Ah, but it is usually the most expensive CE purchase one makes on something intricately configured that needs to last several years. So while not a $60,000 BMW it is it's consumer electronics equivalent IMHO. The bigger point is that it's okay if it takes an extra 30 minutes (me) or 2.5 hours (you) to get the notebook up and running considering it's cost, longevity, and importance in ones life.

I'm not posting incorrect information; I am posting opinions you disagree with. I get good information from FT in several subforums and my contributions have been helpful to many over the years. In this instance, I am merely pointing out to a poster that an Apple product can also be a good Ultrabook alternative. As a frequent traveler I like my MacBook 12 running Windows 10 very much, merely wanted to let others know it's a viable alternative for Windows users.

BJ

boltjames

Fair points all, agreed on the perspective of this subforum and the nuances of its membership. I'm trying to fit in and contribute, pay back what I've learned here.

This was my first "clean" Windows install and it really makes a difference, very speedy, no annoying pop-up's to contend with. If I do go back to a dedicated Windows machine two years from now, I'll nuke all that it comes with and do another clean install again, it's worth the extra time.

BJ

nkedel

I actually think cars in general are a fair analogy; OTOH, the particular choice of cars in the analogy depends a lot on your perspective on both cars and on laptops (again, for me, the Macbook 12" would be very much more the analogy to the SmartCar or maybe if one wanted to be really charitable, a Mini Cooper.)

(As an off-topic point about cars: there's plenty of room to argue about particular choice of a $60k BMW, and while I am a bit vague on BMW models pricing, there are huge differences in their line -- a high-end 3 series with a big engine vs. a lower-end engine on a base 5-series, vs. a Z4, say although I don't think any of those would quite make $60k, they've all got moderately different value propositions.)

In general I agree with you about the value of spending the time (even on intended-as-a-PC models) to do a clean reinstall. That said, it's not necessarily a comfortable task for non-technical people, and if the Bootcamp driver issues are better, it's in the last 2-3 years.

More than fair; I'd temper your enthusiasm just a little bit, and in particular try to look at what people are asking. I'm surprised to hear it works as well with Windows 10 as it seems to for you, but that aside, I am really reluctant to suggest that anyone replace a faster machine with a slower one.

While my business cards say "Software Engineer," one part of my day job at my next-most-recent company* was specifying and benchmarking hardware for the engineering organization, and in particular trying to ameliorate the tendency of their IT org to try to get one-size-fits-all models. That's a good way to get machines that are underpowered for developers**, and miserably heavy, overpriced, or both for the non-technical staff.

[* and by at least fair odds, possibly to be my employer again when I'm done taking a couple of months off after the unpleasantness that was my more recent job. ]
[** or worse yet, the technical field consultants, who needed laptops back when development was still "there is no laptop on the market which would work for us" and because of the need to do integration work, needed enough memory to push them to 32gb workstation-class machines back when most folks in development were OK with 16gb machines and some folks were still doing OK with 8gb. ]

Absolutely; I've done that sooner or later with every machine I've owned since 2000, and the couple of machines I've had where I've not done it immediately, I've regretted it within about a month of owning the machine and then had to manually reinstall a bunch of applications.

superangrypenguin

Does the X1 carbon touch take a m2 sata? Just want to make sure i'm buying the right one?

And apparently there's a m2...what is it, mini?

So could I have 3 hard drives then? One standard + two optional? Thanks!!

(Looking for nkedel as always)

nkedel

First, make sure you're getting the current generation (X1 Carbon 3 with the 5th-Gen Core i/Broadwell CPU, not the X1 Carbon 2 with 4th-gen Core i/Haswell CPU) unless you're waiting for the new ones in Jan/Feb.

For the Gen 3 machine, you can only have one SATA or PCI-e drive on a single m.2 mini-Card slot (full-size 80mm sometimes called 2280), and that there's no space for a regular 2.5" drive on the current generation. I'm fairly sure that neither of the prior generations took a 2.5" drive either, but I'm not sure when they went from mSATA to m.2.

The one way that might be able to get a 2nd drive in there is if you don't need a WWAN card; I don't know if Lenovo whitelists PCI-e cards with the X1 Carbon 3 (they have been inconsistent on past models) but if they don't, you might be able to find a small enough PCI-e SSD to fit in the WWAN slot -- I'm not aware of any out there right now.

Lenovo isn't quite as good as Dell about posting service manuals online in a consistent location, but with a little googling can find them, and they're nicely detailed:
http://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mo...sp40g55065.pdf

BTW M.2 is the newer standard and smaller than mini-PCIe (or mSATA, which shares the form factor.)