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high power laptop & in flight power

high power laptop & in flight power

Old Apr 2, 15, 8:58 pm
  #16  
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Originally Posted by HereOrThere View Post
On my next international flight, I had a 45W adapter for a different Dell. I was able to use that adapter on my M3800 on the new AA 777 (though it gave the usual warnings). It wasn't great (then again the inflight wifi was satellite based so that wasn't that great either).
I don't have a 45W to try, but when I tried a 65W it acted like there wasn't even an adapter plugged in, and appeared to be actually running the battery down rather than just throttling.

I'm complaining to Dell to see if they can do anything about it (like decrease the initial spike and provide power management software to ramp things down) but what will probably work better is using buying a 90W adapter and carrying that around too.
That's what I've ended up doing. It throttles a bit (especially the GPU) and will only charge the battery with the power off, but it's usable.
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Old May 12, 16, 10:18 pm
  #17  
 
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Hi team! I just ran into the same issue- 120W power supply on a Delta flight, the power outlet light just goes from green to dark (assuming it shut itself off).

I read through the thread and have purchased a 90W power supply to try next week- theoretically this should put enough power through to my laptop to extent its life right? It wont be able to keep up when it's running full bore- but maybe eek out another half hour to hour of life?
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Old May 12, 16, 11:55 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by christopherhammond87 View Post
Hi team! I just ran into the same issue- 120W power supply on a Delta flight, the power outlet light just goes from green to dark (assuming it shut itself off).

I read through the thread and have purchased a 90W power supply to try next week- theoretically this should put enough power through to my laptop to extent its life right? It wont be able to keep up when it's running full bore- but maybe eek out another half hour to hour of life?
The short answer is "it depends on the laptop" but absent knowing what specific laptop it is, the best generalization I can give is "it's worth trying."

I actually have very recent replaced my M3800 with a Latitude E5470 which is just a touch faster (although a good bit slower than the present generation equivalent, the M5510) and has 32gb... and which works with an auto/air friendly 65W adapter (and has somewhat better battery life and keyboard.)
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Old Jul 30, 16, 12:14 am
  #19  
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Originally Posted by nkedel View Post
...the two different 130W models I've tried will trip the in-seat breaker no matter what you're doing (even with just the brick plugged in without the computer attached.)
Originally Posted by nkedel View Post
The Dell 130W supplies I tried have tripped the breaker on CX (77W) and AA (77W and 738) as soon as they were plugged in, whether or not the laptop itself was attached, and if attached, on or off.
I'm trying to figure out how on earth this happens (it happens to me, too, with my stock 180W adapter).

Surely the brick itself can't be drawing 100+ watts without anything plugged into it. (If it does, that's a horrible design!) And while I'm not an electrical engineer, I am not aware of any way for a device to signal to a power outlet that it is capable of drawing X number of amps; it either draws them or it doesn't.

Yet clearly, something does cause the outlet to trip. I'd be curious to pick up a wattmeter and plug the brick into it at home someday to see what comes up...

Originally Posted by BigLar View Post
I have a Dell Precision with the nice 17" screen. It takes a 130w supply and it won't even boot if it detects the old 90 watters. I believe it will charge with the older supplies, but won't operate.
Workaround I've discovered: boot the machine with the power adapter unplugged and then plug it in after it's booted up. The computer may complain and/or throttle itself, but it seems to work after that point. FWIW, my new Precision 7510 seems to do a decent job of managing power usage and not throttling the CPU too much and still charging the battery even on a crappy 65W adapter (it just charges much slower). Dell did a good job on this machine.
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Old Jul 30, 16, 12:56 am
  #20  
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Originally Posted by jackal View Post
Surely the brick itself can't be drawing 100+ watts without anything plugged into it. (If it does, that's a horrible design!)
For many things, startup current for many thing can be (briefly) much higher than the continuous draw. Not sure if that applies to laptop power bricks (or some but not others.)

Yet clearly, something does cause the outlet to trip. I'd be curious to pick up a wattmeter and plug the brick into it at home someday to see what comes up...
I'd be just as curious about peak as continuous.

FWIW, my new Precision 7510 seems to do a decent job of managing power usage and not throttling the CPU too much and still charging the battery even on a crappy 65W adapter (it just charges much slower). Dell did a good job on this machine.
Good to know! I've been keeping an eye for a 7510 or 7710 refurb on outlet; they move very, very fast.

Last edited by nkedel; Jul 30, 16 at 2:35 am
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Old Jul 30, 16, 2:21 am
  #21  
 
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Those PSU bricks take a hefty current on plug-in. You will have noticed the spark when it's being plugged in.

I've always assumed it's due to a large capacitor being charged up inside.
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Old Jun 10, 17, 2:45 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by jackal View Post
FWIW, my new Precision 7510 seems to do a decent job of managing power usage and not throttling the CPU too much and still charging the battery even on a crappy 65W adapter (it just charges much slower). Dell did a good job on this machine.
I also have a 7510 - wondering which 65w AC adapter works on it? (Model No. please - TIA!)

Or even a 90w one - anyone?
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Old Jun 10, 17, 3:11 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by SuperFlyBoy View Post
I also have a 7510 - wondering which 65w AC adapter works on it? (Model No. please - TIA!)

Or even a 90w one - anyone?
Dell 90W adapters have always worked fine on airplanes for me, and with a beast like the 7510, I'd recommend going with the 90W.

As for models, they've been using the same power supply voltage and the 7.4mm connector for most of their models since about 2004, so there are a TON of options out there, all functionally identical

The only thing to watch for is that newer Dell power supplies come in a both the regular connector (7.4mm) and a mini one (4.5mm). They're electrically compatible, and the adapter to go from big to small is passive. Here's an example of an adapter: http://amzn.to/2sOVoQM (the 4.5mm connector is a little long, and protrudes, but it works fine.)

I'm pretty sure the 7510 takes the bigger one. There's no adapter that I'm aware of to go from a 4.5mm brick back to a 7.4mm machine.

The standard Dell 7.4mm connector supplies:
* 65W are called "PA-12" series
Current model: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...6&sku=332-1674
(plenty of different models: ex newer one: http://amzn.to/2sOC8mt slightly older model http://amzn.to/2ri2dsd older still http://amzn.to/2sODSfN , these go back to 2004)

* 90W are called "PA-10" series (plenty of different models - current from Dell
http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-...pc-accessories
(have to love the amazingly long list of compatible models!)
http://amzn.to/2s9mkwO http://amzn.to/2rNlPYR http://amzn.to/2s9r85y )

* 130W are called "PA-4E" series
http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/accessories/apd/331-5817
(There's an old rounded one that's quite rare, but basically just the one model:
http://amzn.to/2s9g8oD ) Not to be confused with the new fairly common 130W slim one with the 4.5mm connector

They also make 180W and 240W. I think the 7510 runs standard with the 180W?

Some examples of the 4.5mm adapters to avoid:
http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-...pc-accessories
http://amzn.to/2s8Uyk3
http://amzn.to/2s9kwnp
http://amzn.to/2sP2oNx
Note that these don't use the PA-10 / PA-12 model numbering, so if you stick to that, you should be fine. The 90W 4.5mm adapter is quite rare compared to the 65W and 130W so it's least likely to be a problem at that wattage.

As discussed above, don't expect the same performance on 65W or 90W that you'd have on a regular adapter, but it's better than nothing. Jackal's experience has been better than mine with the M4700/M3800/M5510 and now an XPS 15 9560 (basically the same as the M5520) so ymmv.

There's also a 90W auto/air DC adapter:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...p&sku=330-8105
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Old Jun 12, 17, 11:24 am
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by BigLar View Post
Some of the 'compatible' replacements apparently don't identify themselves correctly to the laptop, and the machine doesn't want to do anything.
Annoying, sometimes they stop recognizing genuine Dell too. Work around is to boot from battery, log in then connect the power supply, but YMMV.

Dell claims they downclock the CPU when they can't recognize the P/S to avoid causing damage to the power brick. It seems they mean downclock to 4.77Mhz. There is at least one report of software out there that turns this 'feature' off, but you have to be able to boot before the software can run.

Actual draw on an older Dell Precision with a 180W brick observed as 25W-40W via a Kill-A-Watt meter; system has a Samsung SSD w/write caching. It was not under an insane load. The laptop was unplugged and connected to the meter while already booted. Test for boot, resume or wake-up not done -- no data on peaks.
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Old Jun 12, 17, 7:08 pm
  #25  
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Originally Posted by SuperFlyBoy View Post
I also have a 7510 - wondering which 65w AC adapter works on it? (Model No. please - TIA!)

Or even a 90w one - anyone?
7510 owner here. Yes, it takes the larger (standard) barrel plug size. FWIW, a coworker has a current-gen (2017) XPS 15 and it takes the smaller barrel size.

I don't have all my adaptors with me (and won't be back home for awhile), but here's what I have with me:

"PA-4E Family" DA130PE1-00 (JU012)
"180w" DA180PM1111

Both are working fine to power my machine on AC. The 180W adapter did trip the protection circuit (immediately upon plugging in) on my last flight, but I did not get a chance to try the PA-4E on the flight as it was too hard to dig around my bag in-flight. I guess I don't have a 90W or 65W AC adapter with me.

I do have the aforementioned 90W car adapter with me that also works fine. I haven't used it in awhile, but my recollection is the throttling, if any, is minimal.

As I recall, the 65W adapter does throttle the machine to a painful degree. I don't recall the specific clock speed, but it makes even opening windows noticeably sluggish and dealing with demanding activities (even loading complex web pages) an exercise in frustration.

Even on a 180W adapter, I've never seen a draw of more than about 100W (at peak load, much lower at idle) through a Kill-A-Watt. As nkedel mentioned upthread, it isn't the actual continuous draw/load that trips the circuit but rather the initial jolt of startup current (maybe to charge the capacitors or something) that kills the circuit.

My experiences. Can do further, specific testing with what I have with me upon request, or maybe I'll remember to play around with things a bit more when I get back home and have all my adapters and meters and things at my disposal.

Last edited by jackal; Jun 12, 17 at 7:15 pm
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Old Jun 13, 17, 7:12 am
  #26  
 
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Thanks guys for the information - I need to place an order for one of these in the next couple of days as I am heading stateside...

Targeting the 90w adapter - so additional feedback would be appreciated!

I also wonder why Dell doesn't come up with any innovative power plug solutions like other manufacturers! (These input plugs/connectors stick out quite a bit from the back of the unit)

Last edited by SuperFlyBoy; Jun 13, 17 at 7:45 am
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Old Jun 13, 17, 11:00 am
  #27  
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Originally Posted by SuperFlyBoy View Post
I also wonder why Dell doesn't come up with any innovative power plug solutions like other manufacturers! (These input plugs/connectors stick out quite a bit from the back of the unit)
(longer reply lost by &#$^#$ browser taking a backspace as a "bacK")

Besides Apple, who's come up with an "innovative" power plug solution? Magsafe is great, due to the lack of a mechanical connection, but patented.

The new Lenovo rectangular plug has been less reliable than the older barrel connector, in the name of thinness. The Dell attempt to move to a thinner barrel connector has been much less reliable.

From what I can see, the way laptops get moved and placed also leads to side connectors being more likely to be damaged than back connectors.

If you're concerned about the distance in back, there are a ton of right angle connectors available that convert the straight plug to a right angle one. Quick example with no endorsement intended:
http://amzn.to/2soVXE8

As an aside, all of the new Dell models that I've seen with USB-C or USB-C+Thunderbolt can be powered over the USB-C port via a Dell USB-C (WD15) or Thunderbolt (TB15, TB16) dock. I don't know if a non-Dell high-wattage USB-C power cable (e.g. Apple's) will power them, but it might be worth looking into.

It's certainly a less bulky connector, although I worry about it's durability given how bad the design of the prior two smaller USB standards are. Seems to be the way the industry is going, though.
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Old Jun 13, 17, 11:08 am
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Originally Posted by nkedel View Post
Besides Apple, who's come up with an "innovative" power plug solution? Magsafe is great, due to the lack of a mechanical connection, but patented.
Agreed - was just working on my daughter's MacBook Pro (who *somehow* managed to get hers infected! )

Originally Posted by nkedel View Post
If you're concerned about the distance in back, there are a ton of right angle connectors available that convert the straight plug to a right angle one. Quick example with no endorsement intended:
http://amzn.to/2soVXE8
Great info - thanks!

Will be ordering a few of these to keep in my bag - not that I travel that much any longer...

Originally Posted by nkedel View Post
As an aside, all of the new Dell models that I've seen with USB-C or USB-C+Thunderbolt can be powered over the USB-C port via a Dell USB-C (WD15) or Thunderbolt (TB15, TB16) dock. I don't know if a non-Dell high-wattage USB-C power cable (e.g. Apple's) will power them, but it might be worth looking into.

It's certainly a less bulky connector, although I worry about it's durability given how bad the design of the prior two smaller USB standards are. Seems to be the way the industry is going, though.
Exactly - that connector is too small and fragile - plus for the 7210s and high-power workstations - they are not supposed to properly power the laptop - although that's what the TB16 is proported to do...

Really wanted a 14" version with a proper docking station (with 2 hard drives or more), but HP was one of the last ones to make one with a quad core chip...
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Old Jun 14, 17, 12:04 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by SuperFlyBoy View Post
Really wanted a 14" version with a proper docking station (with 2 hard drives or more), but HP was one of the last ones to make one with a quad core chip...
Dell still makes the E5480 which are is a a nice 14" business notebook, with a choice of a quad-core i5+dGPU or quad-core i7 (iGPU only.) Cheap, too, on outlet. Takes two drives, allthough one requires a shorter M.2 card (2242) and replaces the WWAN card.

Lenovo makes a nice 14" quad core system, the T470p, with i7 + dGPU. Not sure if will take two M.2 cards.

The prior generation versions (E5470 / T460p) are still available through retail channels and outlet, and there isn't really much to recommend Kaby Lake (although the generation bump on the dGPU may be.)

None of these are really workstation-quality graphics, although 14" machines have very rarely been regularly available with decent workstation graphics chips.

There are also some 14" gaming notebooks (starting with the New Razer Blade) which pack a quad-core i5 or i7 with a rather more powerful GPU (just not one with professional OpenGL or ISV certification.)

The Dell 5520 and HP ZBook Studio are basically Macbook Pro 15 form factor clones, and are not much bigger than older 14" machines. Not sure about the HP but the Dell doesn't have a way to get a second drive, but with 2TB SSDs available (and at 2.5", not that expensive; m.2 PCI 2TB is absurd) it might be an option worth looking at.

I just got the new XPS 15 9560, which is the consumer version of the 5520; the only real difference is the GPU (GTX 1050 vs. M1200M... way faster gaming chip.)

--

The WD15 dock has no trouble powering the 130W Dell models (5510, 5520, XPS 15) but haven't tried it on any of the 180W or 240W models.

Last edited by nkedel; Jun 14, 17 at 12:13 am
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Old Jun 15, 17, 3:30 pm
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Originally Posted by nkedel View Post
Dell still makes the E5480 which are is a a nice 14" business notebook, with a choice of a quad-core i5+dGPU or quad-core i7 (iGPU only.) Cheap, too, on outlet. Takes two drives, allthough one requires a shorter M.2 card (2242) and replaces the WWAN card.
Thanks for all that great info - I think that the Dells still are limited to 8-16GB RAM though...need at least 32GB.
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