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superangrypenguin Nov 22, 2015 12:22 pm


Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel (Post 25755539)
I disagree--expect to have to reactivate Windows.

I've done many many many clones, and have never been asked.

Anyways, top tip to people who have to re-activate Windows, if you use the first option (connect to the internet), and it barfs, use the phone activation method, it's a pain, but eventually it'll ask you how many machines you have Windows installed on, put 0, or whatever the truthful number is, and it'll then give you the code to activate it.

Little loophole I've learned over the years.

Same goes with Office

MAN Pax Nov 22, 2015 2:29 pm


Originally Posted by superangrypenguin (Post 25755608)
I've done many many many clones, and have never been asked.

Anyways, top tip to people who have to re-activate Windows, if you use the first option (connect to the internet), and it barfs, use the phone activation method, it's a pain, but eventually it'll ask you how many machines you have Windows installed on, put 0, or whatever the truthful number is, and it'll then give you the code to activate it.

Little loophole I've learned over the years.

Same goes with Office

Same here - recently upgraded my SSD in size with no need to revalidate.

DenverBrian Nov 22, 2015 2:36 pm

When I cloned my friend's platter HD to a new 1 TB SSD, after doing the clone procedure in Acronis, I simply swapped out the drives and restarted the laptop. It burst into action (honestly, that's how fast SSDs are) and there was not, and never has been, any request from Microsoft to activate.

javabytes Nov 22, 2015 3:11 pm


Originally Posted by superangrypenguin (Post 25755377)
No, Windows doesn't usually barf at you in this case, it doesn't know that the HDD has changed.

If you go swap out the mobo, and other things, then perhaps.

Windows does know that the hard drive has changed. But the policies that require reactivation are not so strict that swapping a drive alone will trigger it. Microsoft uses this information along with many more bits of data on the other hardware in the machine to determine whether the computer is substantially similar. If not, reactivation is required.

superangrypenguin Nov 22, 2015 5:57 pm


Originally Posted by javabytes (Post 25756293)
Windows does know that the hard drive has changed. But the policies that require reactivation are not so strict that swapping a drive alone will trigger it. Microsoft uses this information along with many more bits of data on the other hardware in the machine to determine whether the computer is substantially similar. If not, reactivation is required.

Yes, while this is updated in WMI, the point was that it doesn't require reactivation.

Loren Pechtel Nov 23, 2015 6:46 pm


Originally Posted by superangrypenguin (Post 25755608)
I've done many many many clones, and have never been asked.

Anyways, top tip to people who have to re-activate Windows, if you use the first option (connect to the internet), and it barfs, use the phone activation method, it's a pain, but eventually it'll ask you how many machines you have Windows installed on, put 0, or whatever the truthful number is, and it'll then give you the code to activate it.

Little loophole I've learned over the years.

Same goes with Office

The last couple of times I've swapped out a drive I got the "This is not genuine" warning--reactivate and it was happy.

It's been a long time since I've had to do a phone activation. XP used to puke on me so often that I kept having to reinstall and kept having to go through the phone activation. Since XP SP2 I've only had Windows puke badly enough to need a reinstall once. (Most of these, including the latest, was something that freaks out in the device manager and it won't accept any new mass storage devices. This is nasty because it applies to USB devices--sooner or later it would strike even on known devices such as my Kindle.)

nkedel Nov 30, 2015 11:46 am


Originally Posted by linsj (Post 25752145)
I figured out I need to download a program like EaseUS (is there something better that's also free?) and buy a drive enclosure and cable to connect the drives. Any recommendations for a cheap enclosure? Do they typically come with a cable?

Best free alternative: http://clonezilla.org/downloads.php
(Not exactly user-friendly, though!)

Second-best free alternative: Windows disk image backup. (requires a third drive since it's "make backup from original to backup drive, restore backup to new drive from backup drive") MUCH, MUCH more user-friendly.


Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel (Post 25753306)
I've never seen an enclosure that didn't come with a cable.

I've seen a very few very cheap ones that didn't, but it's extremely unusual (and if you're getting the typical $15-$20 ones rather than the $5-$8 "direct from Asia" ones, I've never seen them not come with a cable, either.)


Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel (Post 25753313)
Straight over duplication only works if the drives are identical. You need software if you need to change the volume size and you might need it even with matching drives if you have an old format that isn't SSD-aligned. Having it out of alignment will not stop keep it from working but it will cost you performance.

SSD alignment is only an issue on older OSes; new installs of 8/8.1/10 will use 1MB alignment even on disks. I think that's true for Windows 7 as well.

Also, Windows (since Vista) can expand a volume in-place in many cases*, in which case the volume just has to be equal size* or bigger

(* the main limit is that if you're still running the manufacturer image, you usually can't move the recovery volume out of the way.
** note that there is some variation in drives with the same published capacity, so I would not bet on two "500gb" or "512gb" actually being exact to within a few megabytes/thousands of sectors, but any 512gb drive should be bigger than any 500gb drive.)


Originally Posted by linsj (Post 25754364)
Loren, I'm getting an SSD that is larger than the current HDD. So it sounds like I need to skip cloning since the drive sizes aren't the same.

Third party cloning software will typically handle this for you; Windows image backup will handle the alignment issues but not the resizing (which may be trivial to fix after cloning, depending on the partition layout on your machine)... Unless you know what "dd" is, this is probably not a big deal.


Does installing Windows on a different drive present a problem with Microsoft?
It may require re-activation, which in the worst case requires an annoying phone call of punching in touch tone numbers. Not a big deal.


Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel (Post 25755535)
Cloning software can handle the different drive sizes. I was saying a dock capable of drive duplication couldn't handle this case.

Depends on the cloning device; we had ones a couple of jobs ago that would do re-sizing and even change SIDs on Windows 2000/XP. Old enough that the annoying embedded OS they ran had to have a serial cable to change settings...

WIRunner Nov 30, 2015 11:24 pm

Few years ago I swapped out a platter hard drive for a ssd from crucial. I won't say that it didn't last long, but the life expectancy was much shorter than anticipated. It was easy enough, and they sell a cloning kit for like $15 that copies everything, and there was no windows activation needed. (Oddly, I could never get web root to work on it again.)

A cheap alternative would be just getting a low profile usb flash drive Amazon has them on sale for a reasonable amount for the size.

Dodge DeBoulet Dec 1, 2015 5:07 am


Originally Posted by WIRunner (Post 25794225)
Few years ago I swapped out a platter hard drive for a ssd from crucial. I won't say that it didn't last long, but the life expectancy was much shorter than anticipated. It was easy enough, and they sell a cloning kit for like $15 that copies everything, and there was no windows activation needed. (Oddly, I could never get web root to work on it again.)

A cheap alternative would be just getting a low profile usb flash drive Amazon has them on sale for a reasonable amount for the size. http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Ultra-...C1S0CWBW98EEQ7

The longevity of SSDs has improved dramatically over the last few years, and now approaches (and in the "rough use" arena, definitely exceeds) that of regular "spinny" hard drives. I've been using SSDs exclusively in my laptops for the last 2 years and don't have any intention of going back.

USB flash drives won't offer the same performance as SSDs. Even USB3 isn't as fast as SATA3, and you'll find that the controllers built into flash drives aren't generally as intelligent at I/O operations as SSDs. For example, the flash drive you referenced supports a read speed of 120MB/s while a SATA3 SSD supports up to 550MB/s. That's a very noticeable difference on today's hardware.

nkedel Dec 1, 2015 12:14 pm


Originally Posted by Dodge DeBoulet (Post 25794956)
The longevity of SSDs has improved dramatically over the last few years, and now approaches (and in the "rough use" arena, definitely exceeds) that of regular "spinny" hard drives. I've been using SSDs exclusively in my laptops for the last 2 years and don't have any intention of going back.

I've been using SSDs exclusively [eta: in laptops] for something like 7 years. Longevity has NEVER been an issue for normal use; I've never seen an SSD run out of write lifetime except in truly abusive server workloads -- even in servers, it takes a lot of work to run out of write lifetime. I've never tried running one in a DVR -- that's probably the worst possible consumer use of one, and one where someone using it very heavily (e.g. a security system constantly writing) might have to worry about write lifetime.

The oldest SSD I have (an 80GB Intel X25-M, G1 without trim) is still working. Not really good for much at that size, but still working.

Every single failed SSD I've ever seen has involved a controller failure in some form. Usually of the catastrophic "bricked" variety.

As for write lifetimes, they've actually gotten worse over time rather than better -- newer grades of consumer flash can do many, many fewer writes per cell given the same write patterns. Better DSP algorithms can extend that a bit, and the FTLs have gotten better at avoiding write amplification, so it's not entirely down-hill, but it's all entirely irrelevant: to completely wear out even a "short lived" drive, you'd need to rewrite the whole drive 3x a day, every day, for a year.


USB flash drives won't offer the same performance as SSDs. Even USB3 isn't as fast as SATA3, and you'll find that the controllers built into flash drives aren't generally as intelligent at I/O operations as SSDs. For example, the flash drive you referenced supports a read speed of 120MB/s while a SATA3 SSD supports up to 550MB/s. That's a very noticeable difference on today's hardware.
Unless you're moving multi-gigabyte files around, that's really not a noticeable difference; nor will most people notice the difference in speed between running an SSD on 3Gbps SATA vs 6Gbps SATA. the random-access performance makes a much bigger difference; that said, even the fastest dedicated USB disks I've seen (and the Lexar P20 is pretty nice!) are pretty miserable for that.

I've got an old 160GB Intel X25-M in a USB3 enclosure as my knockaround drive, and it would be almost tolerable as a bootable drive in a pinch, but the USB overhead is still kind of a killer. For moving bulk files, the ~150-200MB/sec read and write speed is more than fast enough for anything -- it's faster than the gigabit ethernet I'd otherwise be using.


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