Droid 4: Verizon 4G/LTE Abroad?
 

Like many FT folks, I'm a US Verizon customer, and have been for years. Also like many FT folks, I travel a bunch internationally. That's a fundamental problem with Verizon as they operate on US CDMA networks, but they've always offered several phone options with CDMA/GSM dual radios for international travel.

However they've never offered a 4G LTE phone that'll work abroad....until now perhaps. The soon-to-be-released Droid 4 looks like it has a GSM radio in it, and Verizon will be turning on Global roaming on the phones later this year after they fix a "network issue".

Additionally, Verizon LTE phones use SIM cards, but as far as I can tell, this is the only one that would have a GSM radio in it as well.

Any thoughts on if this phone will play nice on foreign GSM or LTE networks? Will International Pre-Paid SIMs will work in this thing?

I suppose we'll learn more about this phone as its released, but I just thought this might be a nifty option for those of us who have been looking for a Verizon 4G phone to use in the US that they can take with them on the road.

i have been following this news very closely and hope that VZW will follow through on this. but what scares me is the big IF they do.
this indeed went through the FCC with a GSM radio and SIM slot. so the common assumption is that it has an LTE SIM and will have a GSM SIM.

i have a Droid 2 Global now and was hoping for this to be my next upgrade. it works great internationally with SIMs that I have tried., after getting the unlock codes from VZW. you also have to enter the carrier APN information.

The Droid 3 is Global but obviously not LTE and is on sale from them for $99 atm.

i personally don't see why this wouldn't work out of the box if unlocked just like any other VZW phone, but they say it won't.
perhaps someone is their global support (the only support that ever knows anything) can shed more light on this.

Yep I am in the exact same boat! Current Droid 2 Global user looking for an upgrade.

I'm hoping the Droid 4 provides the exact same service, and I'd be OK with forgoing 4G LTE service while traveling internationally provided I could use a pre-paid EVDO (or 3g) GSM SIM.

I didn't even think about the phone having a GSM SIM and an LTE SIM, but I guess that's certainly possible!

I'm pretty sure that like the iPhone, the Droid 4 battery door can't be removed. If the phone had two SIMs; I would have thought that would have been noted by all the folks getting hands-on demos with it at CES.

I guess we ultimately won't know until the thing's released, but my D2G is on its last legs!

the xyboard tablets which are LTE got 'global roaming' in an update today:
http://www.droid-life.com/2012/02/09...ates-available
as the post says, the first LTE devices with such a thing, hopefully the droid 4 is soon to follow?

and a few droid 4 videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz6rc4gYjlY
http://www.youtube.com/user/wirefly?.../0/i5XoF6HuLfs
http://www.droid-life.com/2012/02/09...8droid+life%29

Supposedly LTE chipsets support falling back to HSPA.

But LTE may be an opportunity for carriers to lock in customers, as apparently a much wider number of bands are supported by the standard, perhaps too may for there to be true universal phones.

VZ and AT&T may purposely demand phone makers to support only the spectrum used by their networks, though they may not be able to force Apple to do so.

EU, one would expect, would be requiring interoperable LTE devices, just as it did with GSM/UMTS.

Well I just pulled the trigger on a Droid 4. Hoping that it ends up working abroad!

I guess I'll just be sure to keep this old Droid 2 in a drawer to take along with me as a Plan B. Definitely still going to be keeping an eye on how this develops.

Roaming and worldphones may create a push against this. You are so right about the carriers having too much power.

In the US, however, the problem is that you can't get people to understand the real cost of smartphones. Until you can do this, the whole notion of paying less (initially) for a smartphone and having the difference rolled into monthly payments will be the norm. It is the same mentality that made zero principle mortgages popular a few years back or why people continually vote for candidates who continually vote to slash taxes without looking at how they make up the deficits (e.g. pushing the debt out to the future with costly notes or raiding all Government reserves so that it is the next guy's problem). TMobile tried this option by offering lower monthly payments for people who bring their own phones. It flopped.

As a side note, think back to when the FCC auctioned the LTE spectrum off and the promises that the carriers would respect sort of a Carterphone approach to open access. What odds do people want to give me that Verizon would let me activate an FCC customer provided device that Verizon didn't sell on the network?

Verizon's 4G LTE network IS OPEN ACCESS, just some really deep technical things that I can't get into or .01% of the population would understand...

Here's the problem simplified:
VZW's strategy from the BEGINNING was to migrate their CDMA2000 network to a CDMA2000+LTE+GSM hybrid network. That process is now done in the top 100 US markets and everywhere else where there is VZW 4G LTE coverage.

That was stage one. Stage two is using VZW's native LTE network which is a full GSM 3GPP R8 core network with the latest/newest technology in the world with international roaming using DIRECT ROAMING onto the VZW 4G LTE GSM SIM & CDMA2k network with CSIM (LTE, UMTS, GSM, CDMA2000) without going through a faux Vodafone SIM card.

This will be happening with a software update in the next few months and yes Droid 4 + LG Spectrum will have it with the links or any other future LTE phone with the GSM radios on VZW. This is the back-end network upgrade VZW is talking about. Interfacing their domestic US GSM/4G LTE network with their international GSM roaming partners.

Now if you want to really get technical:

EVERY single VZW LTE phone in the US uses the GSM method of authentication of a UICC (USIM-UMTS/UICC-LTE SIM (IMS) with the ICCID onto VZW's native US LTE/GSM network) and a CSIM onto their legacy 1X/EVDO network. There is a CSIM profile for the CDMA2000 network and a USIM/IMS profile for the VZW GSM 4G LTE network. Thereby VZW implemented GSM aspects of CDMA and yes you can swap any SIM card in-between any 4G device on VZW's network.

A LTE SIM is the same as a GSM SIM in VERY SIMPLE terms just upgraded applications onto it. (CSIM=CDMA SIM card profile onto their 1X/EVDO network, USIM=VZW LTE network card profile and international LTE&UMTS roaming soon, legacy GSM EDGE roaming).

Again the VZW is delivering a GSM network, there were some deep technical things that had to be ironed out (VZW implementing/converting their entire US network to LTE/GSM, etc. GSM VoLTE MAP core voice testing late this year, next year, etc, etc. Google for IEEE and other engineering stuff if you want.)

Check www.hoardforums.com if you want more info and I have some technical stuff that I read/work with that I can't disclose.

This is the VZW 4G LTE SIM card (also available as microSIM's in VZW stores): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UICC

One VZW 4G SIM card, all the networks in the world!

The really short answer: VZW is implementing the NEWEST GSM technology, NEWER than most countries, only with other LTE deployments (mostly developed countries) in order to gain the latest spectral efficiency due to explosive US mobile broadband demand.

The carriers love it because it means they can keep the rates higher once the subsidy is paid off. They also love it because it locks you to their network & reduces churn.

It ain't gonna change.

But what about the issue with VZW having unique set of bands that no other carrier has?

Specifically, there is little or no overlap with AT&T's LTE spectrum? Or perhaps with those planned by other major carriers around the world?

If they support UMTS as fallback then sure, they support devices in 3G mode. But it doesn't sound like taking VZW devices to other LTE networks or LTE devices from AT&T or Europe for that matter would work transparently on VZW.

Aside from the technical issues, there seems to be little business interest in offering prepaid services for people visiting the US for instance. Of course competitive prepaid products would undermine their postpaid contract lock-in business model.

Well I got my hands on a Droid 4 through work, and so far I love this phone. It's way faster/snappier than my old Droid 2 Global. Plus this is probably the best QWERTY keyboard I've ever used on a phone.

Of note to this thread: One of the first things I did was take a look at the SIM settings, and it looks like the SIM comes unlocked out of the box. :eek:

Now we just need someone from FT to take this thing abroad and see if they can just pop in a third-party SIM.

So that'll take what....72, 96 hours?

that is very cool. i have an orange sim from spain from our last trip but don#t have a droid 4 yet to test it on.
here is to hoping!

I picked up my Droid 4 on launch day and I'll be heading to the UK in a few days. I'm bringing a cheap Android phone that I know will work, but I'm hesitant to buy another SIM just to test the Droid 4. I believe it is a micro SIM, just like the iPhone 4.


Is it a micro SIM?

Yep there's a Micro SIM in it. Regardless of if you get another SIM for it, I'd love to hear how it works roaming on a non-LTE network!

Droid 4 doesn't find any signal whatsoever in London. Used stock sim