FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Travel Technology (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-technology-169/)
-   -   Bye Bye Macbook (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-technology/1239116-bye-bye-macbook.html)

BonzoESC Aug 2, 2011 4:51 pm


Originally Posted by anrkitec (Post 16838149)
Maybe for Apple but others have figured out how to do more ports without adding weight. ;)

Why make that choice when you don't have to - because my laptop could have been 2.6 lbs instead of the 2.8 that it is? I bet that difference is pretty close to the weight of the RJ-45 dongle I bet many Apple users carry with them yet without the space the dongle takes up.

Nobody has figured out how to add more ports without adding weight; if other manufacturers are seem to, they're either sandbagging the version without ports on the tech specs page, or the considerations for the extra ports are already built into the frame, and simply not punched out and had parts added.

If you need a wired network connection, it sounds like the MacBook Air is not the computer for you. Perhaps look at a different model of computer.

GadgetFreak Aug 2, 2011 5:21 pm


Originally Posted by anrkitec (Post 16841540)
"Have to", no.

Make it relatively hard to do so that the soft option is to rely more and more on their cloud/online/storefront pay services, yes, I am saying that. Well, me and Time, cnet, PCWorld, etc.



Apple are doing exactly what DHS and TSA have done. DHS gives us all the "option" of opting out of using the nude-o-scopes but they make the opt-out process so onerous that the vast majority of people just go along and submit to the scanners.



[1] Netbooks were always niche products and are being quickly supplanted by pads and [2] I never suggested that every single CE device should have an optical drive.

Finally, do I hate Apple? Yes and no. I really like their design and R&D half but hate the corporate and marketing half which is why I only currently own two of their products as opposed to the typical Apple fanatic who I suspect likely owns four or five products at a time.

For example, I think that iTunes is one of the crappiest, most piss-poorly and cloddishly designed pieces of software I have ever encountered, not because I am an Apple hater but precisely because I am forced to use it with the two Apple products that I do own.

You are really missing the point. Apple isnt selling computers, iphones, ipads and cloud service. They are selling a solution to web access, music access and other entertainment access that uses those things. That is who they design their products for and they charge premium prices because of that integration. I have bought maybe 2 physical CDs in the last 6 or 8 years. All my music is from the itunes store. Movies I stream from Netflix or Apple to my iPad. And iTunes is great on an Apple computer. And I know people who bought Macs just for that reason. That is what Apple sells. You seem to be the one that wants them to do what they arent doing. And given the profits that companies like Nokia now make on smartphones or Dell makes on computers compared to Apple it is hard to see why they should switch. Lots of people want their solutions to these things.

Quite a few years ago I read an article in which they asked a number of leading technology people what the future was like. A guy from IBM pointed out that what people wanted, and would get in the future was all of their content on any device, anywhere. I dont think he realized he was describing Apple.

anrkitec Aug 2, 2011 5:56 pm


Originally Posted by GadgetFreak (Post 16847377)
You are really missing the point. Apple isnt selling computers, iphones, ipads and cloud service. They are selling a solution to web access, music access and other entertainment access that uses those things....You seem to be the one that wants them to do what they arent doing.

No, I am not missing the point nor do I "want" Apple to do anything, they are free to do whatever they like.

The problem as I see it - to the extent there is one - and my point, is that Apple's disproportionate influence over the CE market has the net effect of limiting the choices available to myself and others who choose not to buy into whatever precisely Apple is selling.

And it isn't just me. I provided several links to well respected tech journals who also see happening exactly what I said said was happening. One agreed with the direction Apple is going, one seemed to disagree, urging caution, and one seemed to be neutral. The point is it isn't just me and correct me if I am wrong but this is discussion forum and not a prayer meeting, yes?

Pat Heininger, the former CEO of Rolex once said, "I am not in the watch business I am in the luxury and prestige business." so I do in fact understand your point.

That doesn't mean however that I or anyone else here has to either swallow the Kool-aid or suffer a personalization of this issue for having the temerity to criticize the Holy See Cupertino. ;)

LIH Prem Aug 2, 2011 6:15 pm


Originally Posted by anrkitec (Post 16847657)
And it isn't just me. I provided several links to well respected tech journals who also see happening exactly what I said said was happening.

Time Magazine, PC World and CNET?

-David

Tummy Aug 2, 2011 8:36 pm

I just got my 11.6" i5 128gb Macbook Air delivered from Amazon today.

It's my 11th Apple portable (19th if you include Newtons, iPads, and iPhones).

It gets a Geekbench score around 5,000 which is twice that of my 2009 Macbook Pro, but about 1/2 that of my 2010 i7 iMac. Overall it feels pretty snappy. The gestures in Lion, which I thought would take me a long time to get use to, feel nature and well integrated.

Battery life is shorter than I expected, but it appears I will get the rated 5 hours. I have yet to run it down, charge it up, and time it.

So far I think I'm going to love it, at least until the next one catches my eye.

skofarrell Aug 3, 2011 6:59 am


Originally Posted by anrkitec (Post 16847657)
The problem as I see it - to the extent there is one - and my point, is that Apple's disproportionate influence over the CE market has the net effect of limiting the choices available to myself and others who choose not to buy into whatever precisely Apple is selling.

How?

Physical media for entertainment (bluray/DVD) isn't going anywhere. iTunes has legal competition from Amazon, Netflix, Hulu, etc; illegal competition from torrents and Russian sites.

There are dozens of phone makers; Android and Windows Mobile are powerful competition to iOS.

The mac has only 11% of the personal computer market; mac hardware can even run the Windows OS if you want to.

"disproportionate influence" because Apple makes hardware and software that people want? :confused:

GadgetFreak Aug 3, 2011 9:05 am

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)


Originally Posted by anrkitec

Originally Posted by GadgetFreak (Post 16847377)
You are really missing the point. Apple isnt selling computers, iphones, ipads and cloud service. They are selling a solution to web access, music access and other entertainment access that uses those things....You seem to be the one that wants them to do what they arent doing.

No, I am not missing the point nor do I "want" Apple to do anything, they are free to do whatever they like.

The problem as I see it - to the extent there is one - and my point, is that Apple's disproportionate influence over the CE market has the net effect of limiting the choices available to myself and others who choose not to buy into whatever precisely Apple is selling.

And it isn't just me. I provided several links to well respected tech journals who also see happening exactly what I said said was happening. One agreed with the direction Apple is going, one seemed to disagree, urging caution, and one seemed to be neutral. The point is it isn't just me and correct me if I am wrong but this is discussion forum and not a prayer meeting, yes?

Pat Heininger, the former CEO of Rolex once said, "I am not in the watch business I am in the luxury and prestige business." so I do in fact understand your point.

That doesn't mean however that I or anyone else here has to either swallow the Kool-aid or suffer a personalization of this issue for having the temerity to criticize the Holy See Cupertino. ;)

The Rolex example proves you are still missing te point. All watches are the same except for quality. Apple isn't selling a computer, they are selling an integrated system that a computer is part of. It isn't a religion. It isn't marketing. It is fundamentally a different product.

GadgetFreak Aug 3, 2011 9:07 am

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)


Originally Posted by skofarrell

Originally Posted by anrkitec (Post 16847657)
The problem as I see it - to the extent there is one - and my point, is that Apple's disproportionate influence over the CE market has the net effect of limiting the choices available to myself and others who choose not to buy into whatever precisely Apple is selling.

How?

Physical media for entertainment (bluray/DVD) isn't going anywhere. iTunes has legal competition from Amazon, Netflix, Hulu, etc; illegal competition from torrents and Russian sites.

There are dozens of phone makers; Android and Windows Mobile are powerful competition to iOS.

The mac has only 11% of the personal computer market; mac hardware can even run the Windows OS if you want to.

"disproportionate influence" because Apple makes hardware and software that people want? :confused:

In fairness Apple did have about 52% of global cell phone profits last year. I suspect that will drop this year because of Android, however.

anrkitec Aug 3, 2011 11:33 am


Originally Posted by GadgetFreak (Post 16851404)
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

The Rolex example proves you are still missing te point. All watches are the same except for quality. Apple isn't selling a computer, they are selling an integrated system that a computer is part of. It isn't a religion. It isn't marketing. It is fundamentally a different product.

No, the analogy is pretty close.

Both Rolex and Apple have great R&D, have various innovations in their respective industries and both also have corporate and marketing departments that are really big on hype and are essentially selling something other than the product itself. In the case of Rolex it is luxury, in the case of Apple it is selling hardware so that they can sell downloads, storage, and other online services.

anrkitec Aug 3, 2011 11:45 am


Originally Posted by skofarrell (Post 16850569)
How?

By influencing what other CE manufacturers do.

The example you provided is a good case in point. For years the Sony S, Z, SZ line was a premium small, light, laptop with a built-in optical drive. The latest iteration of the Z now lacks an optical drive as Sony has aimed it directly at the MBA. I have no doubt that Sony looked at Apple and said, if they can sell a $1800-$2000 ulta-portable without a built-in optical drive then so can we.

Of course others will follow Apple's lead here if they can. Why would manufacturers continue to pay the costs for the drive itself and the licensing fees if they can get away with charging the same price for a laptop without an optical drive and the public has been conditioned to accept its removal? Thus everyone's options have now been limited.

Look, it's the way things work - I get it. That doesn't mean that I can't voice my personal displeasure over the development.

It really is like the TSA scanner/pat-down analogy I made earlier: some love it, some hate it, most don't really care and will just accept what is handed to them.

skofarrell Aug 3, 2011 1:31 pm


Originally Posted by anrkitec (Post 16852636)
By influencing what other CE manufacturers do.

The example you provided is a good case in point. For years the Sony S, Z, SZ line was a premium small, light, laptop with a built-in optical drive. The latest iteration of the Z now lacks an optical drive as Sony has aimed it directly at the MBA. I have no doubt that Sony looked at Apple and said, if they can sell a $1800-$2000 ulta-portable without a built-in optical drive then so can we.

Of course others will follow Apple's lead here if they can. Why would manufacturers continue to pay the costs for the drive itself and the licensing fees if they can get away with charging the same price for a laptop without an optical drive and the public has been conditioned to accept its removal? Thus everyone's options have now been limited.

Look, it's the way things work - I get it. That doesn't mean that I can't voice my personal displeasure over the development.

It really is like the TSA scanner/pat-down analogy I made earlier: some love it, some hate it, most don't really care and will just accept what is handed to them.

So you're making a case against innovation? Apple made the choice to eliminate something that few people use when they travel and the public embraced it. Apple isn't killing the DVD drive, the internet is...Are you pissed that serial and parallel ports are gone too?

BTW, Your TSA analogue isn't a good one. There's no alternative to the TSA and their scanners/patdowns if I want fly commercially. The public accepts it because the federal government shoves it down their throats. Apple isn't the federal government. There's lots of alternatives to the Mac, the iPhone, the iPad...

I can't dislike a company simply because they are successful.

anrkitec Aug 3, 2011 2:37 pm


Originally Posted by skofarrell (Post 16853339)
So you're making a case against innovation?

Nope, not at all. As I said, Apple has without a doubt been an innovator in the CE industry in terms of design and aesthetics.

But leaving a still-current technology out of one's product really isn't "innovation" [in terms of hardware] but rather value-engineering and marketing based on a larger strategic business direction.


Originally Posted by skofarrell (Post 16853339)
There's no alternative to the TSA and their scanners/patdowns if I want fly commercially.

No analogy is perfect but I was referring to tactics and results, not impetus.


Originally Posted by skofarrell (Post 16853339)
I can't dislike a company simply because they are successful.

Nor do I. As I said, I currently own three Apple products and have purchased five or six others over the years.

Sony is also a very successful company but their customer service sucks and all but three or four of their products are mediocre at best IMO. That doesn't mean that I either love them or hate them.

GadgetFreak Aug 3, 2011 3:03 pm

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)


Originally Posted by anrkitec

Originally Posted by GadgetFreak (Post 16851404)
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

The Rolex example proves you are still missing te point. All watches are the same except for quality. Apple isn't selling a computer, they are selling an integrated system that a computer is part of. It isn't a religion. It isn't marketing. It is fundamentally a different product.

No, the analogy is pretty close.

Both Rolex and Apple have great R&D, have various innovations in their respective industries and both also have corporate and marketing departments that are really big on hype and are essentially selling something other than the product itself. In the case of Rolex it is luxury, in the case of Apple it is selling hardware so that they can sell downloads, storage, and other online services.

No, it is a terrible analogy as you explained it yourself. Rolex sells watches. Period. Apple sells multiple products that work in an integrated way. It's like if Rolex sold yachts that I interacted with their watches for navigation.

anrkitec Aug 3, 2011 3:11 pm


Originally Posted by GadgetFreak (Post 16853970)
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

No, it is a terrible analogy as you explained it yourself. Rolex sells watches. Period. Apple sells multiple products that work in an integrated way. It's like if Rolex sold yachts that I interacted with their watches for navigation.

No, that analogy is actually nearly perfect - disagree with it though you may.

As highlighted by the quote I provided, for the majority of their customers Rolex does not sell a practical timepiece for people who otherwise couldn't tell time. They sell "luxury and prestige" and access to their brand, their club.

Likewise Apple doesn't sell hardware to people who otherwise would not have access to a computer or whatever else. They sell devices to access their various online commercial services and access to their brand, their club.

In both cases - many or most their customers are buying the physical product in order to have access to something else - which is in fact the real "thing" being sold.

Let me ask you a completely, utterly rhetorical question: Given that one can economically purchase music, movies, software, etc. from many, many, non-Apple sources - has your purchase of Apple hardware significantly increased the number of purchases you have made from iTunes, MobileMe, [soon-to-be] iCloud, etc.? Of course it has. ;)

Let me say that among the various watches I have I also own, well - let's just say that I am a Rolex customer as well as an Apple customer, all steel casual/sports models, because I find them extremely functional but just as importantly because I love the robustness of the caliber and the "classic" nature of their design and aesthetics - and for which I am willing to pay the price of admission. Still, even though I own both Rolex and Apple products I am neither company's ideal/target customer because for Rolex I want nothing to do with their 18K and Platinum, and diamond/precious stones models and I don't really like their new bigger/chunkier-is-better design trend and for Apple I feel no overriding compulsion to be part of the hive.

What is interesting is that if you go to the various high-end horological forums you see the same type of reactions from the Rolex fans that you see from Apple fans here and elsewhere.

If you dare to criticize any aspect of Rolex or their watches the holy defenders of the faith come out like sharks to blood in the water and personalize the issue, the problem isn't Rolex they say, the problem is you - because you just don't get it; you just don't get it man!. :D

Now, you personally may buy Apple only because of the [mostly] very good hardware [which is the only reason I have the Apple products that I have] but the quasi-religious undertones surrounding a significant base of supporters of both marques is, in both cases, unmistakable.

Which of course, in both cases, is also great for business.

9Benua Aug 3, 2011 4:03 pm

anrkitec, instead of being a hater, get a mbp/mba, try it and come back here again. ;) Once you go mac, you never go back :p


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 4:34 pm.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.