Along the lines that "YVR Cockroach" mentioned - Buy a mid-range system on a good sale before you go for a "value priced" system. Entry level system build quality is usually disappointing, such as casing not having the specific slots you might need to expand or nifty doors that break easily. Mid-Range systems usually use better components than the entry level priced little sisters. Things like quality fans don't seem like a pertinent selling point until you hear how loud a cheap fan is or have to find a non-standard fan size after your oem one breaks... or try to replace a permanently mounted awkwardly sized power supply after it dies. Other than observing this first hand for the last 15+ years, my friend worked in a large computer repair department also believes this to be true if you're buying pre-assembled. This will greatly help extend the life of the computer.

I'd also advise keeping an eye on techbargains.com to get better bang for your buck.

I have not bought a desktop for a few years, and probably never will again. I prefer to use laptops with a big external monitor, keyboard, and mouse added. That way you have a big screen for routine use, but also a computer you can grab and go with.

You can get decent laptops for $600-700, and big flatscreen monitors for $130-200, and a keyboard and mouse for $80.

It may be more than your price range, though.

Personal opinion: The era of the desktop is over. Not only are they energy-hogs, they don't have any real advantage over notebooks. I'll never buy one again.

ecost has this hp refurbished system today for ~$330.

http://www.ecost.com/[email protected]

RE : Advice on a new desktop PC.
 

Hi Everyone,

According to me Desktop is very good for professional use for that you need speed. for that my advise please download anti virus and make double virtual speed.

Thanks
Ernie wright

Sorry to not have followed up on your advice. I had to give up thinking about this as more urgent issues came up. The more I read and discussed it with my son, I realised that $500 budget was unrealistic for what he wanted. I did think about Core i7 processors, but that would mean going beyond $1000. Ideally a Core i7 that supports triple channel architecture would be the best.
My son is fascinated by the speed and passmark scores. I settled on Phenom II x4 945, 955 or 965. I would get 4GB DDR3 memory, 1TB 7200 r.p.m hard drive. Since I want HDMI output and, I needed a motherboard with on board graphics that supported HDMI, or get a separate graphics card.. This limited me to certain chipsets. I was looking for motherboards with ATI chipsets, mainly due to my superstition that a motherboard with AMD chipsets would work better with an AMD processor. Even though I had excluded motherboards with Nvidia based motherboards, I found myself hopelessly tangles trying to juggle so many variable.
I found systems with 4GB DDR3 memory, but at 1066 MHz. I wanted 1333 MHz, no more, no less. I would find the right CPU, and memory, but the harddrive sixe would be smaller than what I wanted.

I have narrowed my choice to these systems made by ztsystems.


ZT Affinity 7366Ma Phenom II X4 965(3.4GHz) 4GB DDR3 500GB ATI Radeon HD 5450 Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit for $689=$20 shipping at Newegg.

* Phenom II X4 965(3.4GHz)...
* 4GB DDR3 --2x2GB (speed not specifed)/ 16GB MAx 500GB 7200 RPM HD
* DVD±RW

ZT Affinity 7362Ma Desktop AMD® Phenom™ IIX4 965 3.40GHz
Microsoft® Windows 7 Home Premium
8 GB DDR2 (not sure of he speed) at COSTCO for $699.

I figure that for the same speed, 4GB of DDR3 is equivalent to 8GB DDR2 (?) I am getting a bigger HD for the same price at COSTCO. Since COSTCO has a 90 day return policy, I could get that one,. If we like it, we keep it. If not, we return it.

This has been a compromise. I wanted DDR3, but I could not find 1333 MHz and 1TB hard drive under the prices quoted above.

I would like to hear some comments about this.


I had tried to configure my own around a GIGABYTE GA-MA785GT-UD3H----(AMD 785G, AM3, 8GB DDR3 Max, CrossFireX, RAID,1394, HDMI, S/PDIF, Audio, GbLAN, Video. ) It was pricing substantially higher even with the default fan(s) and a 400W power supply. I might have considered going for that but the vendor was unknown to me and I did not find good reviews on the vendor. It was PCUSA.COM

Thanks/ This is the strategy I have adopted. Researching video cards is another thing I haven't got the time for. As graphics cards go, ATI Radeon HD 5450, according Techspot is pretty week. The review said, that you are better of saving your $50 or so and stay with the on board graphics. I haven;t got the information or the knowledge to decide on a graphics card right now. So I won't get one for now.

For some people it is. just as the era of books is over for some. I aoffered to buy a laptop to my son. But he figured, he could get a better desktop for the money than a laptop.

Agreed. Desktop is more useful for many things than a laptop, unless, you are always moving around.

Thanks. It's a good price and a decent system. But it's a bit weaker than what my son wants. I had decided to go for AMD instead of intel.

If you have a Microcenter near you (and if you can find it)...

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0303045

Nevermind. This is only an open-box return at one store. Mine. :p

This thread is full of so much misinformation!

Improvements in platter density have improved HDD transfer rates without the need for an increase in RPM. I am a power user and I use a 5400rpm boot drive. If you really want a noticeable increase in performance, get an SSD.

Anyways, here are my recommendations:
Good: Aspire Revo AR3610 http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16883103235
Better: Gateway SX2840 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883113124
Best: Build your own (to avoid ridiculous price premiums)

The Gateway would be absolutely perfect for you.

I agree. Higher r.p.m. presents the potential for faster data transfer from the disk to cpu. It does not mean that a 33% increase in rpm will necessarily translate into 33% sustained data transfer. One thing increasing rpm does for sure is reduce the rotational latency. But total sustained transfer rate depends on lots of things, such as the buffer size, and the density of platters. Can you move more people per hour in a car travelling at 70 miles per hour or a big bus travelling at 54 miles per hour?

Your second recommendation is not bad. I would go for it myself personally, but my boy wants a faster processor. Yesterday, I priced a build your self configuration with Phenom II x4 965, 4 GB of 1333 MHz DDR3 memory and iTB hard drive for about $600, including a license for a 64 bit Windows 7 (Home Premium)OS. Some items were on sale on neweggg during a 24 hour sale that is probably expired by now. But, I think, if you get major comonents on 10-15% off sale, building it yourself can be cheaper.

I am not a big fan of AMD, especially from a reliability standpoint. My current build has a Phenom at heart and I have had a few issues with it. Never had a problem with any Intel build I have ever done. Will definitely be going back to Intel on my next build. This is anecdotal of course...

Also, why does he want and/or need a faster processor?

Just bought a Dell from Costco.ca.. An I7, 1.5 tb harddrive.. and the rest of the specs I don't know.

You can use Visa or MC, and add up points.^

I'd avoid the first-generation Phenoms entirely; they were poor performers. The Phenom II core is much better.

From what you've said about his uses, there's no chance Quad-cores are probably not necessary now, but they aren't bad futureproofing. The Phenom II X2 and X3 processors are also worth looking at in that price range - the Phenom II X2 3.2ghz Black edition ($99 at Newegg) is a phenominal value for a low-end gaming rig, although so is the bottom of the line Intel i3-530 processor ($115 at Newegg)

This is one of the easiest things to upgrade later.

4GB is fine for now, but as you note, buying 2x2gb is worth a premium over 4x1gb.

Also, make sure you get something using DDR3 - it's slightly pricier now, but DDR2 is on its way out and in 2 years it will be a lot cheaper to upgrade memory if you get DDR3 now.

Have you looked at assembling a system with your son? It would involve some investment of time, but it would be no pricier than a new system (unless you get a very good deal on the new system) if you shop around, and it is an excellent learning experience for a kid that age - rebuilding an XT-class system back in the late 1980s certainly was for me.

It also has the advantage of being substantially easier to maintain and upgrade than an "out of the box" commercial system. Sadly, at the low end it is pricier (when you get to $1000+ "enthusiast" systems it is still cheaper.)

$350 is going to be kinda hard on the build your own; with decent parts, I got $390 sans Windows license, $500 even with on Newegg, not counting shipping (or shipping and tax in California) with an AMD Athlon II X2 245 processor (ie add $85 more for Phenom II X4, or $45 more for Phenom II X2 or Athlon II X4) but $500 is doable, and if you can get an academic discount on the Windows license or transfer a non-OEM one from another machine, it's very doable even with a better processor.

The motherboard is readily handled by looking at reviews; if you stick to a good brand like Asus or Asrock or Giga-byte, it is relatively hard to go wrong. I very strongly prefer AMD/Intel chipsets to NVidia, and the only reason (IMO) to go with the latter is to do SLI (dual/quad-video-board graphics) for very serious gamers. Otherwise, they tend to have less reliable drivers and poorer support than either of the CPU manufacturer's own chipsets.

Unless you overclock, FSB speed and memory speed are not really issues like they were years ago. Memory just needs to be compatible.

For the uses mentioned, integrated video is probably the way to go - the decent modern ones are fine for ; if you get a system with a 16x PCI-E slot you can always add a full video board later. Figure on a decent board starting around $100.

I've had very bad luck with HP. I'd stick to Dell at the low end, or Dell or Lenovo at the higher end. The trick with Dell is that their pricing is very opaque and airline like - you need to be flexible about planning your purchase timing to take advantage of promotions, etc.

Sounds like a pretty good deal.

I would not call it that. Anything modern will be able to handle that given some patience, although it will be pleasantly quicker on a faster system.

HDs are readily upgradeable later if you end up with a 5400rpm one.

If he's in 8th grade now, I think NO system bought today, whether $350, $500, or $2000 has a very good chance of making it through 4 years and a bit. Avoiding the very cheapest (ie single core Celeron, Atom) will improve the odds significantly only because those are near-obsolete now; a quad-core will improve the odds a bit over a decent dual core.

Games are increasingly taking advantage of more than 2 cores; GTA 4 is hardly the newest out there, and showed much better behavior on quad core systems.

Definitely enough for light gaming, on new systems; on older systems (even just mid-2009 vintage!) you have to be careful with which integrated chipset.

I can't think of a single use RIGHT NOW (besides some very hardcore gaming) that a regular home user where > 4gb would be useful, let alone necessary; going over 4gb is entirely a matter of futureproofing, very hardcore gaming (where you're looking at spending $200+ every 6 months to keep your video card(s) up to date) or atypically-heavy multitasking (and that's already the biggest reason why going from 2 to 4 is desirable) or specialized uses (ie at my work doing Java development, a 4 year old dual-core CPU is still fine, 8gb of memory has gotten a little tight.)

The market value of 4gb of DDR3 ram is about $100.

You should go with a 64-bit OS on a system with 4gb as well.

32-bit consumer versions of Windows can't; there is a way to natively access the memory that Server versions of Windows uses, and which 32-bit versions of Linux can use. In any event, for most people that's a distinction without a practical difference.

The real hard and fast limit of 32-bit OSes, which is to only access a single 4gb virtual address space at a time regardless of the amount of physical memory; in (consumer) Windows, that means any one program is limited to 2gb in use by that program - this is true for 32-bit software running on 64-bit Wwindows as well. It has not been an issue yet for regular users except a few hardcore gamers, but is a matter of considerable aggravation for the small subset of my company's customers who ignored our advice several years ago to start migrating to 64-bit systems.

$1,000+ is very hardcore, not just "serious," but yeah - the sky is pretty much the limit when it comes to video. That said, while dedicated graphics are "better" that is an advantage that most people are not going to use at all unless gaming.


---
re: the HD speed question, generation and data density makes a bigger difference these days than rotational speed for data transfer rates. Rotational speed DOES effect access time though, because the time for one rotation is the minimum latency to find a given sector on a track (or to do a full-track read and then extract the sector from cache.)

Corporate desktops and non-enthusiast systems have been limited to 7200 rpm, but MANY serious workstations have been using 15k (first SCSI and now SAS) for as long as it's been available, and 10k SCSI before that. SSDs are just starting to eat into that, although big business has been slow to adopt them in desktops compared to laptops.

SAS is too expensive for the enthusiast market and for the most part SCSI was, but the WD Raptor 10k SATA has been a big seller at the high end of the enthusiast consumer market since it came out. These days, using SSD in a desktop is a better option.

As for the server market, 10k/15k SAS isn't limited to the high-end any more - the LACK of 10k/15k as a model option is pretty much defining the bottom end of the server market (ie stuff aimed for small business.)

If it's USB, Windows XP mode is very, very handy for that, although it does limit you a bit in terms of what apps you access it from.

Building your own is a MUCH better option if you're going to upgrade later.

The i7-8xx are MUCH better processors for most people than the i7-9xx; the i7 architecture (like the Core 2 before it) is not nearly as memory-bandwidth constrained as earlier architectures and 4 cores are not enough to really need the extra bandwidth. Meanwhile, the lower cost of the motherboard, and the slightly better architecture (and much higher turbo frequencies) on the 8xx series are compelling advantages.

The only exception is if you need more than 8gb today; if so, avoiding 4gb DIMMs will save more than the motherboard price difference.

It's a decent synthetic benchmark, but looking at detailed application benchmarks on something like Anandtech or Tom's Hardware tends to be a much better way of determining the suitability of a processor for a given use.

The difference between the two these days is not very significant, unless you are overclocking.

DDR3 vs. DDR2 is a purely future-proofing distinction; at a given speed the DDR3 will actually usually have a slightly higher latency (often 7-8 cycles rather than 5-6) although the clock speed difference may make up for that. In practice, most systems are dual channel, and PC2-5300 (667mhz DDR2) is fast enough; anything better is only an advantage to overclockers.

I would say you are MUCH better off with 1066mhz DDR3 than any kind of DDR2, because in 2-3 years it will be much easier to get the DDR3 inexpensively.

---

Here is the cheapest decent system to your specs I could put together off Newegg. If you're willing to go non-brand on the case, you could go a little cheaper. Going to a full-size ATX motherboard would add about $40. Other than the memory ($2 more for 1333) and processor, it's the same as the one I mentioned higher up:

SAMSUNG CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223C - OEM
Item #: N82E16827151192 $21.99

Rosewill TU-155 II 500 Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case with 500W Power Supply
Item #: N82E16811147117 $69.99

HITACHI HDS721050CLA362 (0F10381) 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Item #: N82E16822145299
$53.99

GIGABYTE GA-880GM-UD2H AM3 AMD 880G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813128439
$89.99

OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model OCZ3P1333LV4GK
Item #: N82E16820227478
$104.99

AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor Model HDX945WFGIBOX
Item #: N82E16819103696
$142.99

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade
Item #: N82E16832116713
$109.99

Total: $593.93

eta: once you're looking at the 965, you might see if you can find someplace with the bottom of the line 6-core in stock (1035t); they're priced about the same, and the turbo feature they've added is really nice. Newegg only starts at the 1055t, although that might still be worth the $25 bump.