Does skin color/accent matter: Flying without ID -
Nov 21, 2010, 10:44 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6
Does skin color/accent matter: Flying without ID -
Hi,
I'm new to FT and have extensively searched this forum and the web for comments on this issue more recent than 2008 before posting. I have not been able to answer my question, and so I come to you, fellow FT friends.
I want to know if someone who does not have a US-government issued ID AT ALL (illegally here) can fly as a "selectee" by saying when they check in that they lost their ID? A secondary question is, if someone has a Spanish (or any) accent or is not white, are they treated differently during the Selectee search than a "presumed American citizen" who is light-skinned?
I know people can fly without ID by being a ssss "Selectee," where from what I have read people get an extensive pat-down and physical search of their bag and that is it. Multiple people in FT have tested this theory and gotten through the airport. But are they all white? Are they all American citizens? If not, is anything different?
I have also read that trying to show a non-US govt issued ID can be problematic if you DO try (an expired ID, for example, or a Matricula Consular).
Some people have said that in their SSSS Selectee search their identity was verified in a database because they had owned a driver's license; they were told to report their card as lost/stolen while still in the airport. Others have said they were surprised by how easy it was, and just got a more thorough pat-down and puffer test but make no mention of having to even give their name, or what was done after that. Some said that they could show their ATM card or library card during the process and that was enough.
Most related posts or internet commentaries about this are from 2008 or earlier; are the new scanning procedures changing the "selectee" process?
I'm new to FT and have extensively searched this forum and the web for comments on this issue more recent than 2008 before posting. I have not been able to answer my question, and so I come to you, fellow FT friends.
I want to know if someone who does not have a US-government issued ID AT ALL (illegally here) can fly as a "selectee" by saying when they check in that they lost their ID? A secondary question is, if someone has a Spanish (or any) accent or is not white, are they treated differently during the Selectee search than a "presumed American citizen" who is light-skinned?
I know people can fly without ID by being a ssss "Selectee," where from what I have read people get an extensive pat-down and physical search of their bag and that is it. Multiple people in FT have tested this theory and gotten through the airport. But are they all white? Are they all American citizens? If not, is anything different?
I have also read that trying to show a non-US govt issued ID can be problematic if you DO try (an expired ID, for example, or a Matricula Consular).
Some people have said that in their SSSS Selectee search their identity was verified in a database because they had owned a driver's license; they were told to report their card as lost/stolen while still in the airport. Others have said they were surprised by how easy it was, and just got a more thorough pat-down and puffer test but make no mention of having to even give their name, or what was done after that. Some said that they could show their ATM card or library card during the process and that was enough.
Most related posts or internet commentaries about this are from 2008 or earlier; are the new scanning procedures changing the "selectee" process?
Last edited by jsponger; Nov 21, 2010 at 10:52 pm Reason: my dates were wrong and I added a question.
Nov 22, 2010, 2:04 am
#2
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
cross-reference TSA's airline passenger identification policies thread
I want to know if someone who does not have a US-government issued ID AT ALL (illegally here) can fly as a "selectee" by saying when they check in that they lost their ID? A secondary question is, if someone has a Spanish (or any) accent or is not white, are they treated differently during the Selectee search than a "presumed American citizen" who is light-skinned?
It's my understanding that a passenger must present a boarding pass that appears valid, then either be thoroughly searched and participate in an interrogation intended to determine and verify the the passenger is the person listed on the boarding pass, or present a suitable identity document and submit to a somewhat lighter search without the questioning.
Please see the Flyertalk "TSA's airline passenger identification policies" thread for more detail.
It seems that they're not directly related, but we can only guess. TSA refuses to publish the rules they require passengers to follow.
Nov 22, 2010, 6:36 am
#3
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,972
I had a friend (who happened to be black) and was flying without "legal" ID a week ago yesterday. She had a birth certificate, work ID (with photo) and credit card. She spent maybe 20 extra seconds at TDC at two airports (LGA/DL and PWM) and was not marked as a selectee.
Not having any ID at all is different, of course, but I think it's like most things here (and somebody said this well on another thread this morning): there will be always be the rare horror story, but in most cases, things go well. We hear lots of reports of being asked "do you have anything with your name on it?" implying that nearly any form of "ID" will be enough to avoid the verification process. For the vast majority of people, "no ID flying" is going to cost a little extra time, and perhaps being treated as a selectee, but that's it. (Even though they may pretend not to, I think the TSA understands that a real terrorist will acquire a fake ID rather than call attention to themselves in this way.)
Not having any ID at all is different, of course, but I think it's like most things here (and somebody said this well on another thread this morning): there will be always be the rare horror story, but in most cases, things go well. We hear lots of reports of being asked "do you have anything with your name on it?" implying that nearly any form of "ID" will be enough to avoid the verification process. For the vast majority of people, "no ID flying" is going to cost a little extra time, and perhaps being treated as a selectee, but that's it. (Even though they may pretend not to, I think the TSA understands that a real terrorist will acquire a fake ID rather than call attention to themselves in this way.)
Nov 22, 2010, 6:27 pm
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6
Even I have been more closely scanned when they say it is a "random check."
I am asking on behalf of my boyfriend, who would be moving across the country with me next month. Apart from a bank account here in the US and a library card or two, he has his Mexican ID which he uses for bars and age checks. No, he does not have a passport or visa.
This is not a post meant to bring up issues about "illegal aliens" but rather one to know whether TSA staff now ask identity-verifying questions to ALL SSSS selectees as a matter of course (and what are the questions?), or just to certain people, specifically those that, like my boyfriend, are not native to the US.
He would have a valid boarding pass, and speaks English well but with a noticeable accent, but i guess could be deported from DCA? Is ICE even at DCA?
Also, traveling at the holidays: heightened security or more lax?
I am asking on behalf of my boyfriend, who would be moving across the country with me next month. Apart from a bank account here in the US and a library card or two, he has his Mexican ID which he uses for bars and age checks. No, he does not have a passport or visa.
This is not a post meant to bring up issues about "illegal aliens" but rather one to know whether TSA staff now ask identity-verifying questions to ALL SSSS selectees as a matter of course (and what are the questions?), or just to certain people, specifically those that, like my boyfriend, are not native to the US.
He would have a valid boarding pass, and speaks English well but with a noticeable accent, but i guess could be deported from DCA? Is ICE even at DCA?
Also, traveling at the holidays: heightened security or more lax?
Nov 22, 2010, 8:16 pm
#6
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: MCO/FRA
Programs: None anymore
Posts: 799
Real ID act of 2005 mandates that people have at least the following:
* A photo ID, or a non-photo ID that includes full legal name and birthdate.
* Documentation of birth date.
* Documentation of legal status and Social Security number
* Documentation showing name and principal residence address.
Nov 22, 2010, 8:19 pm
#7
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
What rock have you been living under?
Real ID act of 2005 mandates that people have at least the following:
* A photo ID, or a non-photo ID that includes full legal name and birthdate.
* Documentation of birth date.
* Documentation of legal status and Social Security number
* Documentation showing name and principal residence address.
Real ID act of 2005 mandates that people have at least the following:
* A photo ID, or a non-photo ID that includes full legal name and birthdate.
* Documentation of birth date.
* Documentation of legal status and Social Security number
* Documentation showing name and principal residence address.
Nov 23, 2010, 9:01 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6
Now I just want to know what kinds of questions are asked when someone undergoes selectee check, and really, guys, that kind of discussion you are having about the Real ID Act is more appropriate in a different thread.
If he tries to fly and through questions as a selectee they find that he isn't *supposed to* be in the US, will they deport him on the spot?
Has anyone ever seen that happen?
If he tries to fly and through questions as a selectee they find that he isn't *supposed to* be in the US, will they deport him on the spot?
Has anyone ever seen that happen?