My first imager refusal - I'm a big boy now!
Jul 20, 2010, 10:51 am
#47
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: FLL & PIT
Programs: Marriott Platinum for Life.
Posts: 1,235
One final thought before I go to bed and contemplate my job requirement for weekly travel, how come TSOs don't wear the radiation film badges or dosimeters? Does anyone remember the contract workers used to wear them? How come TSOs don't wear them?
I can't wait to start hearing in a year or 2 about the increase of cancer related illnesses. Even though I was not taking x-rays as part of my daily job duties when I was teaching with in radiology departments all over this country my employer demanded that I wear a radiation film badge.
Look at how close the TSA stand next to the WBI unit. There is going to be some "scatter" no matter what they say even at the supposed low kVp dose range they claim is coming from these units. HEY TSA........better start wearing your lead undergarments to work.
As a registered Radiologic Technologist I was taught all about radiation safety and dose. Seems to me that the TSA have been fed a line of crap just to keep Chertoff rolling in dough and to scare the uninformed sheeple in this country.
I can't wait to start hearing in a year or 2 about the increase of cancer related illnesses. Even though I was not taking x-rays as part of my daily job duties when I was teaching with in radiology departments all over this country my employer demanded that I wear a radiation film badge.
Look at how close the TSA stand next to the WBI unit. There is going to be some "scatter" no matter what they say even at the supposed low kVp dose range they claim is coming from these units. HEY TSA........better start wearing your lead undergarments to work.
As a registered Radiologic Technologist I was taught all about radiation safety and dose. Seems to me that the TSA have been fed a line of crap just to keep Chertoff rolling in dough and to scare the uninformed sheeple in this country.
Jul 20, 2010, 11:19 am
#48
Join Date: May 2006
Location: TUS/PDX
Programs: WN CP/A-List, AS MVPG75K
Posts: 5,798
I've already told my WN friends at SAN that once that NoS arrives, I'll only fly through SAN on connections. That checkpoint is a nightmare on a good day--I can't imagine what the NoS is going to do.
Jul 23, 2010, 2:24 am
#49
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 48
One final thought before I go to bed and contemplate my job requirement for weekly travel, how come TSOs don't wear the radiation film badges or dosimeters? Does anyone remember the contract workers used to wear them? How come TSOs don't wear them?
I can't wait to start hearing in a year or 2 about the increase of cancer related illnesses. Even though I was not taking x-rays as part of my daily job duties when I was teaching with in radiology departments all over this country my employer demanded that I wear a radiation film badge.
Look at how close the TSA stand next to the WBI unit. There is going to be some "scatter" no matter what they say even at the supposed low kVp dose range they claim is coming from these units. HEY TSA........better start wearing your lead undergarments to work.
As a registered Radiologic Technologist I was taught all about radiation safety and dose. Seems to me that the TSA have been fed a line of crap just to keep Chertoff rolling in dough and to scare the uninformed sheeple in this country.
I can't wait to start hearing in a year or 2 about the increase of cancer related illnesses. Even though I was not taking x-rays as part of my daily job duties when I was teaching with in radiology departments all over this country my employer demanded that I wear a radiation film badge.
Look at how close the TSA stand next to the WBI unit. There is going to be some "scatter" no matter what they say even at the supposed low kVp dose range they claim is coming from these units. HEY TSA........better start wearing your lead undergarments to work.
As a registered Radiologic Technologist I was taught all about radiation safety and dose. Seems to me that the TSA have been fed a line of crap just to keep Chertoff rolling in dough and to scare the uninformed sheeple in this country.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Jul 23, 2010 at 3:53 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
Jul 23, 2010, 3:42 am
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
Well the Xrays at my airport don't use Ionized radiation and emit no gamma rays. They use Xray generators that use electricity to make radiation. Thats my very simple answer. I've been there when they tested the machines for radiation leakage and all that. The Xray tech I talked to said that one ride threw the Xray would expose you to less radiation than an intercontinental flight.
Full body scanners at airports could increase your risk of skin cancer, experts warn.
The X-ray machines have been brought in at Manchester, Gatwick and Heathrow.
But scientists say radiation from the scanners has been underestimated and could be particularly risky for children.
They say that the low level beam does deliver a small dose of radiation to the body but because the beam concentrates on the skin - one of the most radiation-sensitive organs of the human body - that dose may be up to 20 times higher than first estimated.
The X-ray machines have been brought in at Manchester, Gatwick and Heathrow.
But scientists say radiation from the scanners has been underestimated and could be particularly risky for children.
They say that the low level beam does deliver a small dose of radiation to the body but because the beam concentrates on the skin - one of the most radiation-sensitive organs of the human body - that dose may be up to 20 times higher than first estimated.
The physics of these X-rays is very telling: the X-rays are Compton-Scattering off outer molecule bonding electrons and thus inelastic (likely breaking bonds). Unlike other scanners, these new devices operate at relatively low beam energies (28keV). The majority of their energy is delivered to the skin and the underlying tissue. Thus, while the dose would be safe if it were distributed throughout the volume of the entire body, the dose to the skin may be dangerously high. The X-ray dose from these devices has often been compared in the media to the cosmic ray exposure inherent to airplane travel or that of a chest X-ray. However, this comparison is very misleading: both the air travel cosmic ray exposure and chest Xrays have much higher X-ray energies and the health consequences are appropriately understood in terms of the whole body volume dose. In contrast, these new airport scanners are largely depositing their energy into the skin and immediately adjacent tissue, and since this is such a small fraction of body weight/vol, possibly by one to two orders of magnitude, the real dose to the skin is now high.
In other words, you haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about, and to disseminate your completely erroneous, thoroughly ignorant opinion as to the safety of these devices either here on FT or to the general public is a reckless, dangerous and contemptible act.
Jul 23, 2010, 5:06 am
#51
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 161
In other words, you haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about, and to disseminate your completely erroneous, thoroughly ignorant opinion as to the safety of these devices either here on FT or to the general public is a reckless, dangerous and contemptible act.
TSO_LAS has been entirely open with us since joining this forum, despite occasional hostility, and has been more than willing to acknowledge the failings of both his/her employer and fellow employees. With regard to radiation risk, TSO_LAS was, like the rest of us, lied to. So how about sticking with educating, rather than attacking?
TSO_LAS, in addition to the link posted by PTravel, you might also want to have a look at this thread:
Nude-O=Scopes deliver radiation dose 20 times higher than first thought, warn expert
Or just go straight to the horse's mouth:
David J. Brenner addressing the Congressional Biomedical Research Caucus
This would be David Brenner the physician/scientist and expert on the effects of ionizing and low-dose radiation and not David Brenner the comedian, btw!
The video takes some time to watch - it's almost an hour long - but tells you everything you ever (or never!) wanted to know about the risks posed by backscatter radiation imaging. Don't know how old you are, TSO_LAS, but the younger you are, the greater the risk. You may want to keep this in mind when "selecting" pax for WBI . . . .
Jul 23, 2010, 5:53 am
#52
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 555
Well the Xrays at my airport don't use Ionized radiation and emit no gamma rays. They use Xray generators that use electricity to make radiation. Thats my very simple answer. I've been there when they tested the machines for radiation leakage and all that. The Xray tech I talked to said that one ride threw the Xray would expose you to less radiation than an intercontinental flight.
~~ Irish
Jul 23, 2010, 5:55 am
#53
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,584
Wow - don't shoot the messenger!
TSO_LAS has been entirely open with us since joining this forum, despite occasional hostility, and has been more than willing to acknowledge the failings of both his/her employer and fellow employees. With regard to radiation risk, TSO_LAS was, like the rest of us, lied to. So how about sticking with educating, rather than attacking?
TSO_LAS has been entirely open with us since joining this forum, despite occasional hostility, and has been more than willing to acknowledge the failings of both his/her employer and fellow employees. With regard to radiation risk, TSO_LAS was, like the rest of us, lied to. So how about sticking with educating, rather than attacking?
Jul 23, 2010, 7:21 am
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,110
If your looking for a transfer to another agency why is a job fair needed anyhow? Everything you need is on the web.
Jul 23, 2010, 7:43 am
#55
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
Wow - don't shoot the messenger!
TSO_LAS has been entirely open with us since joining this forum, despite occasional hostility, and has been more than willing to acknowledge the failings of both his/her employer and fellow employees. With regard to radiation risk, TSO_LAS was, like the rest of us, lied to. So how about sticking with educating, rather than attacking?
TSO_LAS has been entirely open with us since joining this forum, despite occasional hostility, and has been more than willing to acknowledge the failings of both his/her employer and fellow employees. With regard to radiation risk, TSO_LAS was, like the rest of us, lied to. So how about sticking with educating, rather than attacking?
You might also want to look here for more information. TSO_LAS, if you work with a backscatter machine, the tech lied to you, pure and simple. If you work with a MMW, then the tech told the truth -- MMW's are not x-rays and are do not emit ionizing radiation.
He doesn't have to be a doctor. X-ray techs are very, very well-versed in the mechanisms and dangers of x-radiation.
The bigger question in my mind is -- if this is a backscatter unit, where did TSA find a tech willing to disseminate such blatant lies (or so incompetent as to not know his field)???? Don't castigate TSO_LAS -- he didn't know and relied on TSA's "expert". (I know, I know ... it's an oxymoron.)
Jul 23, 2010, 7:55 am
#56
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,110
What Is Factually Wrong with This Belief: "Harm from
Low-Dose Radiation Is Just Hypothetical --- Not Proven"
By John W. Gofman, M.D., Ph.D.
Fall 1995
http://www.ratical.com/radiation/CNR/NoSafeThresh.html
TSA as an agency has proven itself to be less than truthful. I suggest they are the last group to accept information from as factual.
Low-Dose Radiation Is Just Hypothetical --- Not Proven"
By John W. Gofman, M.D., Ph.D.
Fall 1995
http://www.ratical.com/radiation/CNR/NoSafeThresh.html
TSA as an agency has proven itself to be less than truthful. I suggest they are the last group to accept information from as factual.
Jul 23, 2010, 8:19 am
#57
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: PBI
Programs: DL 2.8 MM/PM, AA MM/GLD, Marriott LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,746
What about the employers of those frequent flyers telling the airlines that they can no longer afford the hours of down time while their employees wait to get through security. Make it clear that if the airlines do not address this issue with the TSA, said airlines will not be getting any more business from them.
I do firmly believe that this is going to implode on the TSA one way or another.
I do firmly believe that this is going to implode on the TSA one way or another.
For those who have to travel on business, suddenly being subjected to strip searchs in order to do your job definitely fits the bill. Of course, not many people will want to protest with their employer given the current unemeployment situation. But a unionized work force could, without fear of unintended consequences.
Jul 23, 2010, 10:16 am
#58
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: FLL & PIT
Programs: Marriott Platinum for Life.
Posts: 1,235
Well the Xrays at my airport don't use Ionized radiation and emit no gamma rays. They use Xray generators that use electricity to make radiation. Thats my very simple answer. I've been there when they tested the machines for radiation leakage and all that. The Xray tech I talked to said that one ride threw the Xray would expose you to less radiation than an intercontinental flight.
And I also know that I will NEVER step foot in to a WBI that is a backscatter x-ray unit. If you think you can force me you will be quite wrong.
Just because you've "been there" when they tested the machines for leakage doesn't mean squat. If there was a problem do you think they would indicate that to YOU? HA!
Keep thinking you're completely compentent to tell the flying public that the WBI is safe, that's what your bosses expect you to do.
But I know that you will NEVER be competent and completely educated about radiation safety like I am.
Jul 23, 2010, 11:07 am
#59
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,110
I've been in the radiology profession since 1982. Since 1997 I've been teaching computed and digital radiography. I think I know more than you'll ever know about radation safety and precautions.
And I also know that I will NEVER step foot in to a WBI that is a backscatter x-ray unit. If you think you can force me you will be quite wrong.
Just because you've "been there" when they tested the machines for leakage doesn't mean squat. If there was a problem do you think they would indicate that to YOU? HA!
Keep thinking you're completely compentent to tell the flying public that the WBI is safe, that's what your bosses expect you to do.
But I know that you will NEVER be competent and completely educated about radiation safety like I am.
And I also know that I will NEVER step foot in to a WBI that is a backscatter x-ray unit. If you think you can force me you will be quite wrong.
Just because you've "been there" when they tested the machines for leakage doesn't mean squat. If there was a problem do you think they would indicate that to YOU? HA!
Keep thinking you're completely compentent to tell the flying public that the WBI is safe, that's what your bosses expect you to do.
But I know that you will NEVER be competent and completely educated about radiation safety like I am.
Your thoughts?
Last edited by Boggie Dog; Jul 23, 2010 at 11:08 am Reason: fixed
Jul 23, 2010, 11:37 am
#60
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: CX MPC SL
Posts: 63
Thank you for the reply. Looking at news video of AIT screeners at work, I've seen what appears to be full screen images - obviously larger than the sample images distributed on the web or posted at entry points. The screener appears to have a "zoom" box that they drag across the image to look at the body in detail. Can't find the vid, but looks something like this.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=972_1262283908
Disturbing, huh?