chx1975

http://www.securoseal.com/ Is this useful? Snake oil?

RevJim

From the FAQ:

So you're supposed to pay $15 for two single-use straps? That seems a bit pricey for what you get.

And what happens if DHS opens your suitcase for an inspection during transit? From that point in your trip forward, your seal has already been broken, so a thief has access to your luggage without worrying about the seal.

And really, how often is is helpful to know whether your bag was opened or not? Suppose a thief cuts the seal, opens your bag and steals something. When you get to your destination the seal is broken. What would you do with this information? How would it be helpful in getting your stuff back? I suspect you'd go to your airline's baggage desk and explain the situation and they would tell you to fill out the same form you would have if there was no Securoseal. File a claim, wait to hear back.

I'm leaning towards snake oil on this one.

NeverFirst

I agree it's pricey, and remember also it's not a security solution, it's a tamper-evident solution, so it tells you if someone's been in your bag but doesn't prevent them from doing so.

As RevJim rightly says, what is the point of it? Sure it will show if somebody has been trying to plant drugs in your bag, but it won't stop them having a good rummage round your belongings (stealing your camera, etc).

Also, I would point out that because the strap goes only round the case one way then the "pen-through-the-zip" method will still let you get a hand in without breaking the seal.

Why not get a bunch of these sort of things for less than 10 cents each?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...All-Categories

Stick four of them around different sides of your case and Bob's your uncle.

Flahusky

Snake Oil*
I'd say its a solution looking for a problem, thing is it found a problem that isn't going to be cured by it(at least in the USA).


* = Anything that adds a few seconds to the tamper time with an item is a deterrent.
* = Anything that indicates the possible presence of valuables is an incentive.

Shak51

I took the recommendation of Detective Kevin Coffee, an expert in travel security, and purchased the Triple Lockdown Luggage Lock. The way this lock works is that one end of the lock is secured to the handle and the other secures the zippers. That makes someone that uses a sharp object to open your zipper to cover their tracks since they cannot run the zipper back over the point of penetration. I also find this lock handy to secure my luggage in a hotel room. It also can be used to lock your luggage together when at the luggage carousel, while on a train, or together while checking in at a hotel. You can also secure you luggage or personal bag to a chair while eating.

I don't buy the argument that because something is locked it is an invitation that something of real value is in my luggage. I don't leave my house or car unlock so why would I leave my luggage unlocked either. If someone broke into my luggage they would not find anything of great value, unless you add up the cost of the clothes within, but what is in my luggage is mine and they want to peek inside they will have to take more risks then a piece of luggage that is unlocked.

When I grew up we never locked our doors to our house because no one ever broke into house back then but one day someone just walked in and help themselves to our things. My parents thought that was a fluke and refused to lock the house until about a month later the same thing happened. While the only thing stopping a would be thief was a pane of glass our house was never broke into again after locking the doors. Just last week a friend in a small town in New England and in her lifetime never locked their car in the driveway. They had their cars entered and things stolen, I would say broken into but since they didn't lock their car all the thieves did was open the door.

Is this lock going to guarantee that your possessions are not stolen the answer is no but I am not about to make it easy for someone either.

Shak

http://www.kevincoffey.com/
http://www.corporatetravelsafety.com/catalog/index.php
http://www.corporatetravelsafety.com...ck-p-1270.html

TheMadBrewer

I had one of these locks and the combination somehow got reset. Spent a couple of evenings going thru all 1000 combinations to no avail. I like the idea of this lock but it is flawed (read the reviews on Amazon)

HSmartt

Agreed - I think all it "could" do is deter a thief somewhere along the line. But items can still be stolen, might be more exciting to steal something, and airlines still have to determine who the thief was. I don't see it actually solving much for this application.

Uncle Dave

I like a colored zip tie snipped off at the end so no long cord is visible - but if someone is trying to get in they have to make it obvious.

Its enough security so -

1. you know when tampering occurs and

2. It deters an opportunistic thief.

3. Its "low profile" is not enough in and of itself incentive to break in in the first place.

Its also harder to replace than a standard black zip tie and the TSA is unlikely to have the exact color sitting there.

Uncle Dave

securoseal

Hi everyone,

Thank you for taking the time to check out Securoseal and your comments. As a number of questions have been raised, I thought I would contribute a response from our point of view and provide some further information about TSA accepted locks and airport environments generally. As the forum rightly prohibits product SPAM, I will limit my responses only to the issues directly raised in this thread (so on a question by question basis as raised by the forum members above) and will endeavour to give you answers to the questions asked. If there are further questions from readers, please feel free to ask.

1. Chx1975 commented: a) http://securoseal.com/ is this useful?

Securoseal was developed in response to an airport investigation by Sir Wheeler in Australia following a wave of public concern following the Schapelle Corby case. We do not comment on the merits of the Corby case, but the presence of organised crime within Australia’s airport environment was confirmed by the Wheeler investigation and a subsequent Australian Standards forum was held to try and solve the vulnerabilities with checked luggage. During this forum, many lock makers and suitcase manufacturers pitched their product, but none could solve the risks identified by the Australian Federal Police associated with luggage already in circulation (namely, undetected zip breaches and other tampering).

This is because classic locks suffer from a number of deficits. There include:
I. They do not isolate the zip sliders on the zip chain, allowing a criminal to separate the zip, gain access, and subsequently rejoin the zippers by moving the locked zip sliders over the area that has been breached.
II. As they open and close repetitively according to their functional design and are of variable quality, locks can usually be simply manipulated to release without any indication for the user, allowing hidden / unauthorised access to the luggage, even if the lock is in a fixed position on the bag (please see the ‘zip breach’ link above, for an example of a fixed position TSA accepted lock picked with a paperclip – there are also many other examples available on youtube. For an independent review of the security offered by these devices, please also look at this report by Security.org).
III. There is no way to verify that a lock has been opened and resealed, or if missing, no receipt system to act as evidence of its initial presence on the bag during check in.
IV. As every piece of luggage is sealed differently and tampering can be concealed, security agents and passengers at airports can only detect tampering activity if they catch the perpetrator ‘in the act’ or they subsequently open their case with knowledge of the contents.

Simply speaking, we took this list and made a device that checks all the boxes by design:
I. It isolates zip sliders to the band, so breaches cannot be hidden.
II. It seals ONCE – and if any component is opened, it leaves tamper evidence that you can see. Unlike the TSA accepted lock system, we control our production process ourselves and use components from major companies like 3M and DuPont, so our product is reliable.
III. Every component is bar coded and numerically identified with a receipt that can be attached to your ticket at check in. Our guidelines of use to help you record the event, to increase your security against smuggling allegations or to action a case of luggage theft.
IV. Securoseal can also be used as a ‘sealing standard’ by authorities. We have worked on a trial basis in international aviation facilities with both airline and airport authority to apply the seal with corresponding security protocols to ‘at risk’ flight routes with excellent results. We are continuing our work in this regard to ensure the product is a useful solution to luggage security issues.

2. RevJim commented:

a) Price point - The listed price on the website currently includes shipping / taxes which is international for US buyers (this actually is a significant proportion of the listed price). We are currently in the process of setting up a domestic distribution for the US market, which should result in postage savings for US consumers. Other regions are also in the pipeline.

b) What if DHS opens your suitcase for inspection during transit - The TSA has a legal right to search your luggage – no matter what you use. Regardless, every passenger has a right to know if their luggage has been breached, whether by legal or illegal means. In respect of the TSA’s searching activity, while every bag is electronically screened, the TSA has confirmed that only a very small percentage are opened by the TSA. This means you also only have a very small percentage chance that your seal will be disturbed by manual TSA searches (single digit percentages, actually). To put that into context, even if you travelled through an airport once every three days for an entire year, if you had a ‘normal’ search experience, out of over 100 trips, you could count the number of legitimate times your seal was breached on your fingers. Regardless of this fact, we are currently speaking to the TSA regarding our product to see if we can further address this concern. Conversely, statistics are that six to ten other handlers come into contact with your luggage out of view of passengers prior to it being delivered to you at your destination point (same source above). This number will increase if you pass through multiple airports, also increasing your risk. For this exposure, in our opinion the small chance of a TSA manual search disturbing a seal is just not worth the risk of leaving luggage unprotected. Particularly in an international context, where you are subject to customs law and you are deemed to be responsible for the contents of your luggage upon arrival.

c) How helpful is it to know if your bag was opened or not? – In my opinion, very helpful. There are two risks affecting travellers who check luggage – theft and smuggling. Regarding theft, our trial experiences tell us that thieves target luggage that is least likely to arouse immediate suspicion. Tamper evident luggage protection allows both security and the passenger to detect tampering in real time – increasing the likelihood of offenders being caught by reducing the window of time from offence to discovery – this is a deterrent to crime. Thieves do not want to be caught – after all, why risk exposure on a sealed bag when you can simply move to the next one that is unprotected? For smuggling, the risks are magnified for the passenger. Most passengers expect a presumption of innocence to apply, but many countries place a prima facie onus on passengers which reverses the onus of proof onto the passenger when taking their luggage through customs. In this scenario, you are held responsible for the contents of luggage unless you can prove those contents are not yours. Perhaps the best example of this risk is the recent case of NY Yankees guard Roger Levans, who was recently wrongfully arrested for having cocaine inserted into his luggage by a smuggling network involving baggage handlers at Guyana and JFK airports. When discovered, he was arrested, subject to two investigations and lost his job during this period – all while maintaining his innocence. He was fortunate that other passengers also were also caught out by this ring in similar circumstances. Three months later that he was released from a charge that could have seen him spending 40 years in prison. He is now suing his carrier airline for his ordeal. Sounds like Hollywood, but it is fact. This is also not an isolated problem. Within the US, the problem is also acknowledged by authorities as a risk. With JFK Airport as an example in itself, there have been ongoing incidents of such activity involving airport personnel since 2003 (see previous link). In this context, knowing whether the internal contents of your luggage may have changed is not only helpful to your travel experience, but also critical for your personal security.

d) If the seal is broken, what do you do with the information and how helpful is it getting your stuff back? – as mentioned above, we have put together some guidelines of use on the website for instances where tampering has occurred which may assist you in defence of a smuggling claim. In respect of theft, it will also assist you in a claim with the airlines, as it will decrease the time taken to discover theft (ie: you can claim at the airport immediately upon arrival – and before you have taken custody of your luggage) and it will also assist in proving to the airline that an act of tampering has definitively occurred. If you carry additional baggage insurance, it will also be another point of evidence to substantiate your claim.

Thanks & regards,

Dion @ Securoseal.com
^

Flahusky

Welcome , Dion @ Securoseal.com
I'd like to thank you for taking the time and effort to respond to almost everyone's posts.
Interesting reading on some stuff and Yes once you get a USA distro Point I think you will an uptick in sales.

securoseal

Thanks for the welcome

There is lots of information out there concerning these issues, but much of it is fragmented. We keep a database of news reports for this very reason. Any environment which deals with the mass transportation of valuable items over different jurisdictions presents an opportunity for crime to occur. Airports are no exception.

In airports, and we see quite a few in our line of work, there are obviously different standards of security depending on the resources different jurisdictions have at their disposal. They all do their best to provide safe transport of luggage, but the environment itself makes this difficult. Millions of pieces of luggage, transported over different jurisdictions, at the lowest cost possible means that the situation on the ground is fluid. A safe environment today can change tomorrow. All aviation environments are the target of crime - not only for the contents of your luggage, but because of the opportunity they present for illicit cross-border trade. The average passenger remains unaware of the potential impact this can have on them personally.

There is a common misconception with passengers that airlines that take luggage actually keep custody of it until it is delivered at the point of destination. Due to the realities of the modern aviation business, this is not the case. Checked luggage will, in all cases, pass through not only different facilities (and security authorities, if the flight is international) but also be handled by different staff contracted to handle baggage at each of those facilities. Aviation entities pay these service providers for this to occur and it will remain this way, as it is essential for maintaining the economy of flight costs. Security on the ground have a double edged challenge in this regard - first, to secure their own facilities from crime, and secondly, detect it when it occurs within these circumstances. As at present, each bag is sealed differently, or unsealed, and that means unless security staff can observe a crime in progress, they are unlikely to detect it within their facilities prior to the luggage leaving. Once it leaves for transport, they lose costody of the item completely and if tampering is discovered at the end of the journey, then there is little either security team can do (outbound or inbound) if they cannot verify when and where tampering occurred.

That is what we are about. Firstly, security for the passenger, and secondly, the tamper indicators needed to increase protection and reduce the timelag between an event occurring and its detection. In regards to the passenger, at minimum, it means knowledge that your bag has arrived with its contents intact and unchanged... Or not. Knowledge which I, as a frequent international flyer, consider critical before I would take custody of my luggage and go through immigration.

In the aviation sector, change is obviously reactionary - both airlines and airport authorities respond to the needs of passengers once they make their demands known. The more passengers that are aware of the risk, the better. So it is in our interest to provide as much information as we can, so the problem becomes transparent to all passengers.

I will keep this thread updated with our progress in the US. As you know, it is a unique market with the TSA's oversight. We are making sure we do things by the book because of this.

Kind regards,

Dion @ Securoseal.com

securoseal

Thanks for the welcome

There is lots of information out there concerning these issues, but much of it is fragmented. We keep a database of news reports for this very reason. Any environment which deals with the mass transportation of valuable items over different jurisdictions presents an opportunity for crime to occur. Airports are no exception.

In airports, and we see quite a few in our line of work, there are obviously different standards of security depending on the resources different jurisdictions have at their disposal. They all do their best to provide safe transport of luggage, but the environment itself makes this difficult. Millions of pieces of luggage, transported over different jurisdictions, at the lowest cost possible means that the situation on the ground is fluid. A safe environment today can change tomorrow. All aviation environments are the target of crime - not only for the contents of your luggage, but because of the opportunity they present for illicit cross-border trade. The average passenger remains unaware of the potential impact this can have on them personally.

There is a common misconception with passengers that airlines that take luggage actually keep custody of it until it is delivered at the point of destination. Due to the realities of the modern aviation business, this is not the case. Checked luggage will, in all cases, pass through not only different facilities (and security authorities, if the flight is international) but also be handled by different staff contracted to handle baggage at each of those facilities. Aviation entities pay these service providers for this to occur and it will remain this way, as it is essential for maintaining the economy of flight costs. Security on the ground have a double edged challenge in this regard - first, to secure their own facilities from crime, and secondly, detect it when it occurs within these circumstances. As at present, each bag is sealed differently, or unsealed, and that means unless security staff can observe a crime in progress, they are unlikely to detect it within their facilities prior to the luggage leaving. Once it leaves for transport, they lose costody of the item completely and if tampering is discovered at the end of the journey, then there is little either security team can do (outbound or inbound) if they cannot verify when and where tampering occurred.

That is what we are about. Firstly, security for the passenger, and secondly, the tamper indicators needed to increase protection and reduce the timelag between an event occurring and its detection. In regards to the passenger, at minimum, it means knowledge that your bag has arrived with its contents intact and unchanged... Or not. Knowledge which I, as a frequent international flyer, consider critical before I would take custody of my luggage and go through immigration.

In the aviation sector, change is obviously reactionary - both airlines and airport authorities respond to the needs of passengers once they make their demands known. The more passengers that are aware of the risk, the better. So it is in our interest to provide as much information as we can, so the problem becomes transparent to all passengers.

I will keep this thread updated with our progress in the US. As you know, it is a unique market with the TSA's oversight. We are making sure we do things by the book because of this.

Kind regards,

Dion @ Securoseal.com

oldpenny16

Thanks Dion, I certainly can see the use for this product when flying to Singapore.

aschuett

I'm going to be honest and say when I firs read this I just laughed. What kind of silly people would use this? But after thinking about drug smugglers slipping stuff into a checked bad, this product does have a market. I don't ever check bags, but if I did, were traveling to a more problematic area, and if the product cost less, I would be in.

chx1975

I found a cheaper version http://www.tamperseal.com/luggage-seals-c-25.html here. It's of course much simpler but if you tie the zipper around a handle I doubt anyone can enter into your luggage undetected. Or you can (from the same site) buy some serious lock slap it on a Pelican case and then... http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=910667