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Share your experence in Traveling with a Pet from USA to UK.

Share your experence in Traveling with a Pet from USA to UK.

Old Oct 6, 2010, 11:14 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by the3rdman
Sorry but the regulationss are ridiculous especially when most of the EU doesnt require 6 months AND if you have recorded vaccines. Just another unnecessary bureaucratic step.
Most of the EU is not an island that is rabies free. And while the advice that policeman gave you is fine, I wouldn't risk the introduction of rabies based on it....

Last edited by Davidwnc; Oct 6, 2010 at 11:14 pm Reason: punctuation.
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Old Oct 7, 2010, 12:09 am
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by Davidwnc
Most of the EU is not an island that is rabies free. And while the advice that policeman gave you is fine, I wouldn't risk the introduction of rabies based on it....
Neither would I....all these records are public. So please, be my guest and do the research. Also, what is the difference between getting a rabies vaccine particularly for this trip and having had them for their entire lives because it is required by law here? We can all prove by law that our dogs are rabies free....the US is just as interested in not having rabies as the UK is. So how does this 6 month wait time help prevent rabies when we are required by law to have dog vaccinations every year? Other than bureaucratic interference it serves no purpose.

This discussion just proves that no matter how simple or innocent an opinion there are always people on the internet that will have an argument. We are required by law here to have our pets regularly vaccinated from rabies and can prove it. End of story. AND the rest of the EU doesnt require 6 months. AND neither does Canada. Why is the UK special?
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Old Oct 7, 2010, 1:58 am
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by the3rdman
So please, be my guest and do the research.
No thanks…that’s what I pay my taxes for – so DEFRA can do the research and make the decision.
Originally Posted by the3rdman
We can all prove by law that our dogs are rabies free..
And that is what you are being asked to do – prove it by having a specific test done. Why are you complaining about that?
Originally Posted by the3rdman
....the US is just as interested in not having rabies as the UK is.
The US isn’t rabies free, the UK is.
Originally Posted by the3rdman
This discussion just proves that no matter how simple or innocent an opinion there are always people on the internet that will have an argument.
I’m sure you find arguments no matter where you go.

Originally Posted by the3rdman
We are required by law here to have our pets regularly vaccinated from rabies and can prove it. End of story.
The regulations (about vaccinations and testing of animals being imported) is for all of the US (and the rest of the world), and laws do vary by state and locality. I have lived with pets in 3 different US states and in none of them was I required to vaccinate my pets against rabies. The PETS travel scheme doesn’t say that animals from NYC are allowed in, but ones from Omaha have to wait 6 months – it is a blanket policy for the country. ‘End of story.’
Originally Posted by the3rdman
AND the rest of the EU doesnt require 6 months. AND neither does Canada. Why is the UK special?
The UK is special because it is an island, and has no land boarders that an infected animal can cross. And the rest of the EU is not rabies free. And Canada isn’t either.

Now, I do understand your frustration. When we decided to move here, I had to stay behind with our cats until they fulfilled the requirements. It wasn’t an easy time for us, but I do understand why a rabies free island nation wishes to remain that way. Having a rabies vaccination does not 100% guarantee a rabies free animal, it just reduces the possibility immensely…but as a person living here, I would rather not take the chance of having rabies introduced. The restrictions are a lot looser than they used to be (until a few years ago it was a mandatory 6 month quarantine, no matter what) – and rail against the regulations as you might, I don’t see any great will in the British people to loosen them any further.

P.S. - In all that writing, I forgot to say welcome to Flyertalk - we are glad to have you!

Last edited by Davidwnc; Oct 7, 2010 at 2:47 am
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Old Oct 7, 2010, 2:49 am
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by the3rdman
So there is absolutely no way around this 6 month waiting period? This is compleltely RIDICULOUS. I come from the US where rabies is pretty much eradicated.....now I have to turn down a 6 month assignment because of this asinine waiting period. Wonderful
Originally Posted by the3rdman
Sorry but the regulationss are ridiculous especially when most of the EU doesnt require 6 months AND if you have recorded vaccines. Just another unnecessary bureaucratic step.
the3rdman, as an American who had to go through the process to bring his dogs to the UK, maybe I can shed some light on your questions. I'll also try to go into some additional detail for the benefit of any future readers who might come across this thread.

First off, let's just be clear: Though rabies may have been "pretty much eradicated" in the United States, it simply does not exist -- at all -- in the UK. Whereas the US is a rabies-endemic country, the UK is not. That may not seem like a big deal, but it is an absolutely massive difference.

But back to your question. You mentioned that you didn't understand why the UK should have different pet immigration policies than the rest of Europe. The simple answer is that because the UK and continental Europe are very different places, they have very different policies.

Great Britain, as you know, is a rabies-free island, isolated from the rest of Europe by expanses of ocean. It is very difficult for animals to cross the ocean by themselves. Therefore, there is a relatively low risk that animals carrying rabies will arrive in Great Britain. For this reason, pet owners in the UK do not have to vaccinate their pets against rabies at all. This brings down the cost of pet ownership for everyone in Great Britain -- a good thing, if you ask me!

Continental Europe, on the other hand, is not an island, but a series of countries with extensive common borders, where animals can roam freely. Rabies is endemic in continental Europe and pet owners must vaccinate their pets against rabies.

To put it simply, the situation in continental Europe is completely different than the situation in Great Britain. The threats are different, the endemic diseases are different and the geographic isolation is different. Therefore, the pet immigration policies are also very different. Great Britain is rabies-free, and the only way they can stay that way is to make sure that all newly-arriving animals are properly vaccinated. And it's not just pets from the US: Any pet which does not have an EU Pet Passport with the appropriate rabies endorsements may be subject to quarantine. Everyone is treated equally.*

In other words, comparing the UK's rabies immigration policy to the rabies immigration policy in continental Europe is like comparing apples to oranges. They are two entirely different systems, as they should be, given the significant differences in the threats they face. To make the systems identical would raise costs significantly, and unnecessarily, for everyone.

You also mentioned Canada. Canada and the continental United States, like continental Europe, are also rabies-endemic areas. Animals can roam freely between the two countries and between their various states and provinces. To bring an animal from Michigan to Ontario, for example, there is clearly no need to go through an extensive rabies vaccination process, because who knows how many rabies-carrying deer, raccoons, squirrels, etc. are crossing the border by themselves every day.

Hawaii, on the other hand, has pet immigration policy which is roughly equivalent to that in the UK. Despite the fact that Hawaii is part of the United States, all pets arriving in Hawaii from the mainland must go through a quarantine period if they have not been properly vaccinated against rabies. Hawaii, like Great Britain, is a rabies-free island, separated from the mainland by an ocean. Like the UK, Hawaii wants to stay rabies-free. Therefore, their pet immigration policies are similar.

Originally Posted by the3rdman
We are required by law here to have our pets regularly vaccinated from rabies and can prove it. End of story.
I think what you are suggesting is that if your pets are legally vaccinated against rabies in one particular country, then another country (i.e. the UK) should accept that vaccination process. Well, there's a big can of worms that you might be opening there, saying that one country should trust the laws of another country. Goodness knows that the United States doesn't do that. For the sake of keeping my post on-topic, however, I would just say that each country has their own definitions and rules for vaccinations, just like each country has their own laws. Just like Hawaii wants incoming animals to be vaccinated according to Hawaii's rules, the UK wants incoming animals to be vaccinated according to the UK's rules. I think that's fair.

The UK PETS scheme qualification process requires Americans to get their pets' rabies vaccinations tested at a certain UK-approved laboratory in the US (the famous "rabies titer"). Since it wouldn't make economic sense for the UK to negotiate its way through 50 different sets of state regulations to approve the vaccination and testing policies of 50 different states (let alone the hundreds of laboratories in each state), it seems perfectly reasonable that they have instead visited laboratories in different countries and regions around the world and established a testing program which adheres to UK law. At least Americans don't have to send their samples all the way to the UK!

I hope that helps to resolve some of the confusion. When I learned there might be a possibility of being assigned to the UK for work, I immediately put my two dogs through the paces to be qualified under the PETS scheme. By the time I actually received the assignment, they were good to go and it was a smooth ride. In fact, PETS is a huge improvement over the previous immigration regulations. The first time I wanted to bring a dog over, back in the 1980s, all pets had to go into quarantine for six months, no matter what. The current PETS scheme is a big step up from the way things used to be.

* Note from above: If I remember correctly, the only pets which are exempt from the UK rabies vaccination requirement are pets from places which don't have rabies, like Hawaii. Someone please correct me if that's no longer the case.
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Old Oct 7, 2010, 7:57 am
  #35  
 
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ExPatEXP pretty much summed it up noit to mention the other posters. But Rabies is still in the states. The CDC site says there are cases yearly, normally in wild animals, but animals none the less. And you can't expect the UK to believe every vet in the states that each pet has had their shot. So they have set up a system they feel comfortable with. And it is much better than the alternative of having the pet sit in quarantine for 6 months. I was happy to hear about the PETS scheme for the UK when I got my job opportunity. I wonder what the policies for New Zealand would be, I know they are pretty strict about other things like bringing wood into the country, I wonder if they even allow a pet.

But back to my earlier point. Surely you could find someone who your pet would feel comfortable with. The trip is pretty stressful on them. Loud noises down below by themselves in a strange place. My dog definitely didn't like the trip. And on the way back she went to the bathroom in the cage, which I am sure she did because she was frighten. Not an ideal situation, but she got to be over there for almost 2 years after all the waiting and such.

Anyway good luck with your decision, whatever it might be, and welcome to FT, do expect to get people to not agree with you, or the other way around as the case seems to be here. There is a huge pool of people here with different views.

Cheers
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Old Oct 7, 2010, 8:41 am
  #36  
 
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I would not have brought my cats over for such a short time period. They did cope fairly well with the stress, but it was stressfull on them - it has to be fairly scarey, being in a cage in an enviroment you are not used to for several hours...even though I had travelled with my cats in the car that was no preperation for a flight. I knew that I would never bring them back to the US.
By the way, if you do decide to bring them over, one thing I did to help mitigate some of the stress, was to line the bottom of their carriers with a couple of old t-shirts that I had worn for a couple hours. When I got them back from the airline/DEFRA they were all snuggled up in them.
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Old Oct 7, 2010, 10:35 am
  #37  
 
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Wow - you all have convinced me that this rule is SOO necessary and not arbitrary nor difficult. In fact I am going to lobby for the waiting period to be extended to a full year...NO two years! Because that will be that much more reasonable and the we can definitely be sure the UK is rabies free! Because you know we can't trust american vets or vaccination records....

All rules and laws have to weigh effectiveness vs. practicality. The point is to keep rabies out of the UK - no law is perfect (rabies can still be transferred this way - and through people too, you know that right?).....most of the western world has practically eradicated it so it isnt even a big issue here or the UK. It practically doesnt exist anymore, people, AND records exist of vaccinations, frome real live licensed vets! We live ina global society now and the UK is part of the EU (at least in terms of movement) - the problem as described is not large enough to warrant such a big hindrance in your life. It juts doesn't. Should we quarantine people to test for AIDS for 6 months before entering the US? AIDS is a far larger problem and there is a 6 month gestation period. No, because as a society we decide that this would be a very bad idea all around. We use logic and reason.

I think the whole thing is ridiculous and I really dont care that others dont. Not at all. Now if anybody can share any exceptions to the law, that i would be happy to listen to. Otherwise Im really not reading these posts because they are repetetive and don't help me in my situation at all. But im sure others will enjoy them because they are well intentioned (I guess).

Last edited by the3rdman; Oct 7, 2010 at 10:49 am
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Old Oct 7, 2010, 8:29 pm
  #38  
 
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Yep you have it figured out. Not to mention that it is not near eradicated in the US, despite what one the one source you have says. Your posts shows how open minded you might be, and how us yanks get such a good reputation overseas. But since no law is perfect, go preach to people how another country should let your dog in because you know rabies could get in another way. Maybe you should write to your congressman about the UK laws. And tell them they need to change. Fact-there are rabies in the states. Fact-there are no rabies in the UK. Why risk it for someone who wants to bring the pet there for 6 months. Do you think they are missing your special skill that much. Why bend over backwards for a foreign citizen. Anyway some countries take 6 months to get visa for (for humans). Have you ever known anybody who tried to get a tourist visa for the US. It is not easy, nor a short process.

I mean the big picture is that is 6 months time, think about the pets well being first before complaining about a foreign countries pet immigration policy. I dont think you are going to get much sympathy here, as most of us looking at the forum have gone through the process or about to go through it, and appreciate the fact there is a process that allows you to take your pets without a quarantine period of 6 months.
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Old Oct 7, 2010, 10:55 pm
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by the3rdman
now I have to turn down a 6 month assignment because of this asinine waiting period. Wonderful
Well, from the pleasant open minded attitude you have shown I can tell it's going to be a big loss for us not to have you here...
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Old Oct 8, 2010, 9:37 am
  #40  
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Originally Posted by the3rdman
Wow - you all have convinced me that this rule is SOO necessary and not arbitrary nor difficult. In fact I am going to lobby for the waiting period to be extended to a full year...NO two years! Because that will be that much more reasonable and the we can definitely be sure the UK is rabies free! Because you know we can't trust american vets or vaccination records....
Sadly, we can't. We already know that pet owners will try to smuggle little Fifi into our country, with no regard for the health and welfare of our own pets So we know that some pet owners are irresponsible owners, so we have to put in place a system which is very bureaucratic to try and circumvent all the people who will try and run around the rules.

All rules and laws have to weigh effectiveness vs. practicality. The point is to keep rabies out of the UK - no law is perfect (rabies can still be transferred this way - and through people too, you know that right?).....most of the western world has practically eradicated it so it isnt even a big issue here or the UK.
It's a huge issue if we lose our rabies free status, affecting our ability to export pets and livestock guaranteed as rabies free all over the world. Why should we be prepared to affect the livelhood of our farmers, or affect the ability of our citizens to travel with their pets for the sake of non-citizens? Why are your needs more important than the needs of those of us over here?

It practically doesnt exist anymore, people, AND records exist of vaccinations, frome real live licensed vets! We live ina global society now and the UK is part of the EU (at least in terms of movement) - the problem as described is not large enough to warrant such a big hindrance in your life.
Yes, it is. The fact you don't understand the implications of what it is to be rabies free versus rabies controlled, doesn't mean that it isn't a big deal. It's a very big deal, particularly for export of livestock and animal products. The UK spends large amounts of money on an annual basis on planning for control of rabies outbreaks - if a rabid animal is found in the UK, then the cost to the UK of ensuring that it has not got into the general population will be large, and if it does get into the general population, particularly if it makes it to the urban fox population (which has the highest density of any foxes in the world), it will make the FMD control exercises look like a walk in the park.

So set against all that cost, expense, potential loss of revenue etc if a rabid animal does make it to the UK, what is the benefit to allowing pets into the UK? You feel a bit better and aren't sad you've been forced to leave your pet behind.

Yes, clearly that's more important than the costs which the UK would incur if a rabid animal was found But you expect us to take it on trust that your animal is ok... yeah, right, we're going to do that when we see people trying to circumvent the restrictions Clearly, not all pet owners are trustworthy, and sadly, the ones who aren't don't have it stamped on their forehead so we can tell the honest ones from the dishonest ones (look at the folks who lie about their animals being assistance animals just so they can fly in the cabin with them )

Hmmmm. As a voter in the UK, I'm still strongly of the opinion it would be cheaper and easier to keep pets out entirely, unless they go through the full 6 months quarantine, because the costs of getting it wrong are sooo high. I'm just about willing to accept that we have to pay more for the bureaucracy of having a testing system in place, but I'm not willing to allow pets into the UK without doing everything we can to ensure they are rabies free.

Don't like it - don't move here.

I think the whole thing is ridiculous and I really dont care that others dont. Not at all. Now if anybody can share any exceptions to the law, that i would be happy to listen to. Otherwise Im really not reading these posts because they are repetetive and don't help me in my situation at all. But im sure others will enjoy them because they are well intentioned (I guess).
There are none. If you don't want to go through the process, don't bring your animal to the UK. The fact you think there might be exceptions (and would probably consider trying to circumvent them) is exactly which such tight regulations are in place in the first place.
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Old Oct 9, 2010, 7:56 am
  #41  
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Folks, the purpose of this thread is to share your experiences and help others in traveling with their pets to the UK. To debate whether their laws are correct is really off topic.

Rather than delete all of the posts on whether the regulations for entering the UK are fair I will allow then to stay. However I will delete as off topic any future posts like them.

Therefore PLEASE stick to sharing your experiences when traveling with your pet or ask any procedural questions you may have regarding entering the UK with your pet so so your fellow FT'ers may better assist you.

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Old Oct 10, 2010, 11:42 am
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by the3rdman
I think the whole thing is ridiculous and I really dont care that others dont. Not at all. Now if anybody can share any exceptions to the law, that i would be happy to listen to. Otherwise Im really not reading these posts because they are repetetive and don't help me in my situation at all.
As I mentioned, I think there used to be an exception for pets coming from places which are also rabies-free, like Hawaii. However, I'm not sure if that's still the case.

Originally Posted by RSSrsvp
PLEASE stick to sharing your experiences when traveling with your pet or ask any procedural questions you may have regarding entering the UK with your pet so so your fellow FT'ers may better assist you.
Overall, my experience with bringing my dogs to and from the UK to the US has been excellent. The regulations are clear, the PETS helpline is always answered promptly, the UK immigration personnel are well-trained and efficient, and the system just works. If only every country did such a good job!

Like any international transport of live animals, there are certain regulations and restrictions; these are rational and warranted, as many other posters have established in detail. DEFRA has even made the process easier in the last few decades by permitting pets to avoid quarantine altogether if the animals are vaccinated and tested in accordance with DEFRA regulations.

Because my local US vet was not accustomed to dealing with international transfers of animals, it did take a little time to get the paperwork done. However, that was due to the lack of experience of my local vet rather than to any failing on the part of the UK government.

In terms of the actual transport, BA does an excellent job taking care of the animals pre- and post-flight. Their reservations process could be a little clearer but they are happy to talk you through it (just make sure that you make a note of the numbers to press to get to an agent -- saves a lot of time on the next call). The Animal Reception Centre at LHR is very professionally-run and it only take a few minutes to collect your pets. It might seem bureaucratic to an outsider, but I appreciate that the system works so hard to keep the UK rabies-free.

Overall, for future readers of this thread, I highly recommend bringing your pets to the UK if you will be coming over for a significant length of time. The process works well and I have never encountered a single problem. As with all government processes in all countries, however, make sure you leave plenty of time to do the paperwork beforehand.

On the other hand, if you don't want to abide by local law, then you should probably just stay at home. I think that's true anywhere in the world
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Old Oct 21, 2010, 8:19 pm
  #43  
 
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ExpatExp - Is there any chance you could give me some idea as to the cost of transporting a dog from the UK to the US?

I need to get my dog from the UK to Boston in November and so far, it looks like it's going to be a very expensive process.
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Old Oct 22, 2010, 3:21 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by rchesterton
ExpatExp - Is there any chance you could give me some idea as to the cost of transporting a dog from the UK to the US?

I need to get my dog from the UK to Boston in November and so far, it looks like it's going to be a very expensive process.
The simple answer is: Not cheap! The latest figures I have (from a round trip on BA in 2008, dog weighing about 45 pounds plus carrier weighing about 30 pounds more*) are:

LHR-BOS: 1425
BOS-LHR: $2250

This will vary of course based on fuel costs, weight of the dog, weight of the carrier, etc. Also, I see the following new policy on BA's website:

Please note that British Airways World Cargo at London Heathrow and London Gatwick no longer has the facilities to deal with members of the public or non-account holders. All requests to ship live animals must come via a Pet Travel Agent who can make all the booking arrangements directly with British Airways World Cargo on your behalf.
I bet that means that it's even more expensive now I will post an update the next time my dogs make the trip -- probably in September 2011.

* The carrier I had to use to meet BA's requirements was absolutely enormous. One of my friends made a comment that I could have fit a pony inside it. Make sure you follow their carrier guidelines completely or they will not accept your pet.
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Old Oct 22, 2010, 5:53 am
  #45  
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I am moving this over to the main US-UK travel with pets thread.

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