Rottweiler as Lap Child
#17
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#18
Join Date: Oct 2011
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They will spin it like this. I love how those who don't have kids or who conveniently forget what it is like to have kids either disparage kids and parents or try to draw a parallel between their dog/cat/hedgehog and a child! The assertion that an animal should have the rights of a human (no matter the age) is ridiculous. I'd take a screaming child before a DYKWIA any day. And as for dogs, they have a seat in the hold.
^ exactly
^ exactly
I draw the line at kids who kick my seat back repeatedly, stand and throw 'things at me or are allowed to run up and down the aisle. I blame the parents for kids behaving poorly.
Those kids grow up to be DYKWIA's.
#19
Join Date: Jan 2012
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A "lap child" is under 2 years old. On the stocky side maybe 33 pounds weight. I suppose if they are on the lap of a plus-sized American and you recline into them, they'd have reach enough to kick your seat. The ability of a toddler to do much of anything physical, is far far less than a 90-pound Rottweiler. I can't recall any stories of a toddler maiming an adult with their teeth, although I suppose anything is possible. Children of "lap child" age are good at screaming and vomit so at least they are on equal footing with the canine there. So yeah, comparing this dog to a toddler... TOTALLY valid!
Last edited by ElPresidente; Oct 13, 2012 at 7:08 pm
#20
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 813
"""Why didn't he claim the dog was his emotional support animal? I thought that usually works these days (at least from what I read on FT."""
To make it work you have to convince a professional in the mental health field to write a letter on their letterhead saying that you are under their care and that you "need" the support animal. I am of the opinion that most psychiatrists and psychologists would not take to writing such a letter lightly.
You can NOT just verbally say it is an emotional support animal and they take your word for it as you can a service animal, you have to provide documentation and I know that at least AA contacts the doctor to verify that it is legit.
To make it work you have to convince a professional in the mental health field to write a letter on their letterhead saying that you are under their care and that you "need" the support animal. I am of the opinion that most psychiatrists and psychologists would not take to writing such a letter lightly.
You can NOT just verbally say it is an emotional support animal and they take your word for it as you can a service animal, you have to provide documentation and I know that at least AA contacts the doctor to verify that it is legit.
US Airways acted reasonably when it allowed a pig to fly first class from Philadelphia to Seattle, the Federal Aviation Administration found.
Maria Tirotta Andrews brought Charlotte, her 300-pound Vietnamese potbellied pig, on the flight Oct. 17, telling the airline it was a "therapeutic companion pet." Andrews said her heart condition was so severe she needed the pig to relieve stress.
#21
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,877
Thank you.
People who claim service animal or therapeutic companion pet should be required to display the proper documentation to the check-in agent and to the GA.
In the above story, there is no evidence to suggest that the PAX in question produced or had in her possession an actual letter or other supporting documentation.
Interesting take on the matter:
http://servicedogpost.blogspot.com/2...rvice-dog.html
People who claim service animal or therapeutic companion pet should be required to display the proper documentation to the check-in agent and to the GA.
In the above story, there is no evidence to suggest that the PAX in question produced or had in her possession an actual letter or other supporting documentation.
Interesting take on the matter:
http://servicedogpost.blogspot.com/2...rvice-dog.html
Last edited by DelrayChris; Oct 14, 2012 at 9:37 am
#22
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: New York, NY USA
Posts: 631
They will spin it like this. I love how those who don't have kids or who conveniently forget what it is like to have kids either disparage kids and parents or try to draw a parallel between their dog/cat/hedgehog and a child! The assertion that an animal should have the rights of a human (no matter the age) is ridiculous. I'd take a screaming child before a DYKWIA any day. And as for dogs, they have a seat in the hold.
^ exactly
^ exactly
#23
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Posts: 561
While I agree that a Rottweiler does not belong in the cabin your blanket assertion that a dog has a seat in the hold just shows a total animus towards dogs. Why can not a small dog be in the cabin? I am willing to bet my dog (a 20 pound CKCS) would be better behaved then a screaming child
If people want a child free environment there are many 55+ communities where they can wallow in blue hair and bad style. Otherwise, suck it up and be part of society - without someone having kids, you would have had a tough go getting to this point...
#24
Join Date: Jun 2004
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As far as I know, commercial establishments like stores cannot ask for proof that a service animal is, in fact, a service animal. Other than airlines, people are on the "honor" system.
However, a store or an office can ask a customer to remove a service animal that displays aggression or raises its leg. Since that's hard to do mid-flight, I can see why an airline could demand documentation to establish a need for the service animal's presence in the cabin.
#26
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Let me clarify. ESA do NOT have the rights of Service Animals. They are allowed on Planes and in Rental Housing with some restrictions. They are not allowed in stores, restaurants, trains or other businesses that normal do not allow pets. Service animals are allowed anywhere not private with very few exceptions when with their handler. ESA need "proof" while Service Animals generally do not other than the handlers word and a description of their tasks.
ESA's do not require "tasks" or even training, while Service Animals have to perform tasks to mitigate the persons disability.
In case anyone was wondering: Therapy dogs have no rights to airlines, business or anywhere else they are not "invited" to perform therapy dog related tasks, normally nursing, retirement homes or hospitals.
It generally takes a year or more to train a service dog, it is a very serious undertaking and requires thousands of hours of hard work. Many more service dogs in training wash out than actually go on to become a working service dog. Legitimate trainers will NOT pass a dog that is not completely stable or makes a bother of himself to the general public.
As a previous trainer of Police, S&R and Service Dogs, I am all for licensing and certification of Service Dogs due to the many fakers out there with badly behaving dogs which hurts the image of a legitimate service dog team. It is a shame that people would do this, it really hurts those who genuinely need the help of a service dog.
ESA are already well-regulated, however it is up to the airlines to follow through. If they are not willing to require proof that this is a legitimate ESA then they are part of the problem..... and, I think ESA's should require a basic level of obedience and good manners also.
ESA's do not require "tasks" or even training, while Service Animals have to perform tasks to mitigate the persons disability.
In case anyone was wondering: Therapy dogs have no rights to airlines, business or anywhere else they are not "invited" to perform therapy dog related tasks, normally nursing, retirement homes or hospitals.
It generally takes a year or more to train a service dog, it is a very serious undertaking and requires thousands of hours of hard work. Many more service dogs in training wash out than actually go on to become a working service dog. Legitimate trainers will NOT pass a dog that is not completely stable or makes a bother of himself to the general public.
As a previous trainer of Police, S&R and Service Dogs, I am all for licensing and certification of Service Dogs due to the many fakers out there with badly behaving dogs which hurts the image of a legitimate service dog team. It is a shame that people would do this, it really hurts those who genuinely need the help of a service dog.
ESA are already well-regulated, however it is up to the airlines to follow through. If they are not willing to require proof that this is a legitimate ESA then they are part of the problem..... and, I think ESA's should require a basic level of obedience and good manners also.
#27
Join Date: Jan 2008
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My comment was a tad over the top. My point is that a dog is not a child, and thus does not warrant comparison - no matter how well behaved. Further, those without children are infamous for making these comparisons and I believe that this is ridiculous and it is usually quite arrogant in the approach.
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#28
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: LAS - where you can get married and divorced in the same 24 hour period. Perfect for the woman who's saving herself for marriage and the man who wants a one night stand.
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A "lap child" is under 2 years old. On the stocky side maybe 33 pounds weight. I suppose if they are on the lap of a plus-sized American and you recline into them, they'd have reach enough to kick your seat. The ability of a toddler to do much of anything physical, is far far less than a 90-pound Rottweiler. I can't recall any stories of a toddler maiming an adult with their teeth, although I suppose anything is possible. Children of "lap child" age are good at screaming and vomit so at least they are on equal footing with the canine there. So yeah, comparing this dog to a toddler... TOTALLY valid!
Parents of obnoxious children should be put on the do not fly list. Kids aren't born ill-behaved brats, it is a learned behavior.
#29
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego
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Let me clarify. ESA do NOT have the rights of Service Animals. They are allowed on Planes and in Rental Housing with some restrictions. They are not allowed in stores, restaurants, trains or other businesses that normal do not allow pets. Service animals are allowed anywhere not private with very few exceptions when with their handler. ESA need "proof" while Service Animals generally do not other than the handlers word and a description of their tasks.
Minor point: Doesn't a service animal have to be working to be transported as a service animal? For example, if a service animal is merely being transported by a non-disabled handler; wouldn't the animal have to either meet in-cabin size requirements, or fly in the cargo hold?
#30
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
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Posts: 5,678
Glad they didn't let him on board, both the "lap child dog" and being barefoot were ridiculous.