Rottweiler as Lap Child

Old Oct 13, 2012, 1:48 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by NC_Girl
I am of the opinion that most psychiatrists and psychologists would not take to writing such a letter lightly.
Go to South Florida. You could get yourself a letter in under a week.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 1:51 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by DelrayChris
Go to South Florida. You could get yourself a letter in under an hour.
fixed your post
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 6:33 pm
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Originally Posted by canadatosiberia
They will spin it like this. I love how those who don't have kids or who conveniently forget what it is like to have kids either disparage kids and parents or try to draw a parallel between their dog/cat/hedgehog and a child! The assertion that an animal should have the rights of a human (no matter the age) is ridiculous. I'd take a screaming child before a DYKWIA any day. And as for dogs, they have a seat in the hold.

^ exactly
Hopefully your kids are well behaved.

I draw the line at kids who kick my seat back repeatedly, stand and throw 'things at me or are allowed to run up and down the aisle. I blame the parents for kids behaving poorly.

Those kids grow up to be DYKWIA's.
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 6:38 pm
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Originally Posted by puddinhead
..... kids who kick my seat back repeatedly, stand and throw 'things at me or are allowed to run up and down the aisle.
A "lap child" is under 2 years old. On the stocky side maybe 33 pounds weight. I suppose if they are on the lap of a plus-sized American and you recline into them, they'd have reach enough to kick your seat. The ability of a toddler to do much of anything physical, is far far less than a 90-pound Rottweiler. I can't recall any stories of a toddler maiming an adult with their teeth, although I suppose anything is possible. Children of "lap child" age are good at screaming and vomit so at least they are on equal footing with the canine there. So yeah, comparing this dog to a toddler... TOTALLY valid!

Last edited by ElPresidente; Oct 13, 2012 at 7:08 pm
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 7:03 pm
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by NC_Girl
"""Why didn't he claim the dog was his emotional support animal? I thought that usually works these days (at least from what I read on FT."""


To make it work you have to convince a professional in the mental health field to write a letter on their letterhead saying that you are under their care and that you "need" the support animal. I am of the opinion that most psychiatrists and psychologists would not take to writing such a letter lightly.

You can NOT just verbally say it is an emotional support animal and they take your word for it as you can a service animal, you have to provide documentation and I know that at least AA contacts the doctor to verify that it is legit.
I guess you forgot about the 300 lb pig! Pig on a Plane

US Airways acted reasonably when it allowed a pig to fly first class from Philadelphia to Seattle, the Federal Aviation Administration found.

Maria Tirotta Andrews brought Charlotte, her 300-pound Vietnamese potbellied pig, on the flight Oct. 17, telling the airline it was a "therapeutic companion pet." Andrews said her heart condition was so severe she needed the pig to relieve stress.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 9:30 am
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by HongKonger
fixed your post
Thank you.

People who claim service animal or therapeutic companion pet should be required to display the proper documentation to the check-in agent and to the GA.

In the above story, there is no evidence to suggest that the PAX in question produced or had in her possession an actual letter or other supporting documentation.

Interesting take on the matter:

http://servicedogpost.blogspot.com/2...rvice-dog.html

Last edited by DelrayChris; Oct 14, 2012 at 9:37 am
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 11:35 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by canadatosiberia
They will spin it like this. I love how those who don't have kids or who conveniently forget what it is like to have kids either disparage kids and parents or try to draw a parallel between their dog/cat/hedgehog and a child! The assertion that an animal should have the rights of a human (no matter the age) is ridiculous. I'd take a screaming child before a DYKWIA any day. And as for dogs, they have a seat in the hold.

^ exactly
While I agree that a Rottweiler does not belong in the cabin your blanket assertion that a dog has a seat in the hold just shows a total animus towards dogs. Why can not a small dog be in the cabin? I am willing to bet my dog (a 20 pound CKCS) would be better behaved then a screaming child
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 1:37 pm
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Originally Posted by laf747
While I agree that a Rottweiler does not belong in the cabin your blanket assertion that a dog has a seat in the hold just shows a total animus towards dogs. Why can not a small dog be in the cabin? I am willing to bet my dog (a 20 pound CKCS) would be better behaved then a screaming child
My comment was a tad over the top. My point is that a dog is not a child, and thus does not warrant comparison - no matter how well behaved. Further, those without children are infamous for making these comparisons and I believe that this is ridiculous and it is usually quite arrogant in the approach.

If people want a child free environment there are many 55+ communities where they can wallow in blue hair and bad style. Otherwise, suck it up and be part of society - without someone having kids, you would have had a tough go getting to this point...
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 5:42 pm
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Originally Posted by LuvAv8n
^NC_Girl. Thanks for the update on this. Honestly, I thought all you had to do was buy a vest on the internet, and hope that your dog was well behaved. Glad to see there are some checks and balances.
The info from NC_Girl was news to me, too. However, it is specific to airlines.
As far as I know, commercial establishments like stores cannot ask for proof that a service animal is, in fact, a service animal. Other than airlines, people are on the "honor" system.

However, a store or an office can ask a customer to remove a service animal that displays aggression or raises its leg. Since that's hard to do mid-flight, I can see why an airline could demand documentation to establish a need for the service animal's presence in the cabin.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 5:45 pm
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Originally Posted by canadatosiberia

If people want a child free environment there are many 55+ communities where they can wallow in blue hair and bad style. Otherwise, suck it up and be part of society - without someone having kids, you would have had a tough go getting to this point...
Right on!
^
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 7:43 pm
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Let me clarify. ESA do NOT have the rights of Service Animals. They are allowed on Planes and in Rental Housing with some restrictions. They are not allowed in stores, restaurants, trains or other businesses that normal do not allow pets. Service animals are allowed anywhere not private with very few exceptions when with their handler. ESA need "proof" while Service Animals generally do not other than the handlers word and a description of their tasks.

ESA's do not require "tasks" or even training, while Service Animals have to perform tasks to mitigate the persons disability.

In case anyone was wondering: Therapy dogs have no rights to airlines, business or anywhere else they are not "invited" to perform therapy dog related tasks, normally nursing, retirement homes or hospitals.

It generally takes a year or more to train a service dog, it is a very serious undertaking and requires thousands of hours of hard work. Many more service dogs in training wash out than actually go on to become a working service dog. Legitimate trainers will NOT pass a dog that is not completely stable or makes a bother of himself to the general public.

As a previous trainer of Police, S&R and Service Dogs, I am all for licensing and certification of Service Dogs due to the many fakers out there with badly behaving dogs which hurts the image of a legitimate service dog team. It is a shame that people would do this, it really hurts those who genuinely need the help of a service dog.

ESA are already well-regulated, however it is up to the airlines to follow through. If they are not willing to require proof that this is a legitimate ESA then they are part of the problem..... and, I think ESA's should require a basic level of obedience and good manners also.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 8:49 pm
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by canadatosiberia
My comment was a tad over the top. My point is that a dog is not a child, and thus does not warrant comparison - no matter how well behaved. Further, those without children are infamous for making these comparisons and I believe that this is ridiculous and it is usually quite arrogant in the approach.

...
To each his own...I'd rather travel with my dogs.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 9:23 pm
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Originally Posted by ElPresidente
A "lap child" is under 2 years old. On the stocky side maybe 33 pounds weight. I suppose if they are on the lap of a plus-sized American and you recline into them, they'd have reach enough to kick your seat. The ability of a toddler to do much of anything physical, is far far less than a 90-pound Rottweiler. I can't recall any stories of a toddler maiming an adult with their teeth, although I suppose anything is possible. Children of "lap child" age are good at screaming and vomit so at least they are on equal footing with the canine there. So yeah, comparing this dog to a toddler... TOTALLY valid!
I love dogs but dogs absolutely don't belong in the cabin unless they are service (not therapy) dogs. Any size - not in the cabin.

Parents of obnoxious children should be put on the do not fly list. Kids aren't born ill-behaved brats, it is a learned behavior.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 11:16 pm
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by NC_Girl
Let me clarify. ESA do NOT have the rights of Service Animals. They are allowed on Planes and in Rental Housing with some restrictions. They are not allowed in stores, restaurants, trains or other businesses that normal do not allow pets. Service animals are allowed anywhere not private with very few exceptions when with their handler. ESA need "proof" while Service Animals generally do not other than the handlers word and a description of their tasks.
Thank you for the clarification. For simplicity sake, I tell my people (govt office environment) to treat customers with ESA and Service Animals the same, and to err on the permissive side because I don't expect my people to know technical differences in helper animal rules.

Minor point: Doesn't a service animal have to be working to be transported as a service animal? For example, if a service animal is merely being transported by a non-disabled handler; wouldn't the animal have to either meet in-cabin size requirements, or fly in the cargo hold?
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 4:35 am
  #30  
 
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Glad they didn't let him on board, both the "lap child dog" and being barefoot were ridiculous.
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