Woman Dies on AA flight; oxygen tanks empty
Feb 24, 2008, 9:08 pm
#1
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Woman Dies on AA flight; oxygen tanks empty
http://www.9news.com/news/world/arti...?storyid=87010
excerpt:
Desir had complained of not feeling well and being very thirsty on the Friday flight from Port-au-Prince after she ate a meal, according to Antonio Oliver, a cousin who was traveling with her and her brother Joel Desir. A flight attendant gave her water, he said.
A few minutes later, Desir said she was having trouble breathing and asked for oxygen, but a flight attendant twice refused her request, Oliver said Sunday in a telephone interview.
After the flight attendant refused to administer oxygen to Desir, she became distressed, pleading, "Don't let me die," Oliver recalled.
Other passengers aboard Flight 896 became agitated over the situation, he said, and the flight attendant, apparently after phone consultation with the cockpit, tried to administer oxygen from a portable tank and mask, but the tank was empty.
Two doctors and two nurses were aboard and tried to administer oxygen from a second tank, which also was empty, Oliver said.
excerpt:
Desir had complained of not feeling well and being very thirsty on the Friday flight from Port-au-Prince after she ate a meal, according to Antonio Oliver, a cousin who was traveling with her and her brother Joel Desir. A flight attendant gave her water, he said.
A few minutes later, Desir said she was having trouble breathing and asked for oxygen, but a flight attendant twice refused her request, Oliver said Sunday in a telephone interview.
After the flight attendant refused to administer oxygen to Desir, she became distressed, pleading, "Don't let me die," Oliver recalled.
Other passengers aboard Flight 896 became agitated over the situation, he said, and the flight attendant, apparently after phone consultation with the cockpit, tried to administer oxygen from a portable tank and mask, but the tank was empty.
Two doctors and two nurses were aboard and tried to administer oxygen from a second tank, which also was empty, Oliver said.
Feb 25, 2008, 12:23 am
#2
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Another lawsuit I guess... 
Feb 25, 2008, 12:49 am
#3
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Not sure if was an appropriate emoticon; but maybe I am reading it wrong? I think this is a bit more serious than just another "lawsuit" case.
Two oxygen tanks were empty. That's ridiculous. They exist for a reason; as much as I don't wanna say the airlines need to be prepared for all medical situations but, come on-two, not one, empty OXYGEN TANKS?
I just read on my last flight on US about a story telling how US Air staff was able to save a passenger from death after supplying a properly functioning AED for a medical personnel onboard.. I guess cutting cost has really gotten to more important things. What's next, are none of the oxygen masks gonna actually give us O2 when we need it in case of cabin pressure loss or something?
was an appropriate emoticon; but maybe I am reading it wrong? I think this is a bit more serious than just another "lawsuit" case.Two oxygen tanks were empty. That's ridiculous. They exist for a reason; as much as I don't wanna say the airlines need to be prepared for all medical situations but, come on-two, not one, empty OXYGEN TANKS?
I just read on my last flight on US about a story telling how US Air staff was able to save a passenger from death after supplying a properly functioning AED for a medical personnel onboard.. I guess cutting cost has really gotten to more important things. What's next, are none of the oxygen masks gonna actually give us O2 when we need it in case of cabin pressure loss or something?
Feb 25, 2008, 1:12 am
#4
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This is scandalous. Very sad and terrible for the person and her family, who probably expected to get some medical assistance when it was urgently neded, rather than refusale.
I might be a widower if the oxygen was not provided to my better half on our flight to HNL last year.
I was tempted to fly AA this year JFK-HNL and this is not encouraging.
Is there a blacklist (AA experts/forum contributors) of AA flights to avoid because of a lack of safety or medical gear?
I might be a widower if the oxygen was not provided to my better half on our flight to HNL last year.
I was tempted to fly AA this year JFK-HNL and this is not encouraging.
Is there a blacklist (AA experts/forum contributors) of AA flights to avoid because of a lack of safety or medical gear?
Feb 25, 2008, 5:51 am
#5
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If you are seriously considering avoiding the entire airline because of this one as of yet unsubstantiated report, I doubt there's anyhting any of us who fly AA regularly can tell you to ease your mind.
Feb 25, 2008, 6:22 am
#6
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This is a sad situation, and I saw it on my local news last night in NYC.
As a physician, I have responded to onboard emergencies (primarily on NW or CO, the airlines I usually fly). Compared to 9 years ago, the current equipment onboard and the medical kit is lightyears ahead of what was available on my first such call, when the stethoscope fell apart in my hand, and they had nothing much more than a bandaid and aspirin. The current kits contain the mentioned defibrillators, IV's, equipment for intubation and nearly any emergency drug you might need. (I know cause I have had the FA open the emergency medical kit more than once.)
The usual process while flying at least close or over the US (compared to trans-pac) is that the cockpit sends a message to a contracted medical service on the ground about the emergency with the particulars of the emergency. The ground MD then OKs the kit to be opened and treatment to begin. This process takes around 5-10 minutes, IME.
Why they didn't divert and emergency land is anyone's question. There is no way to know even if they were in the process of diverting, or the speed or length of time from onset of symptoms to her death.
Having not just one, but two, empty O2 cylinders is inexcusable however.
As a physician, I have responded to onboard emergencies (primarily on NW or CO, the airlines I usually fly). Compared to 9 years ago, the current equipment onboard and the medical kit is lightyears ahead of what was available on my first such call, when the stethoscope fell apart in my hand, and they had nothing much more than a bandaid and aspirin. The current kits contain the mentioned defibrillators, IV's, equipment for intubation and nearly any emergency drug you might need. (I know cause I have had the FA open the emergency medical kit more than once.)
The usual process while flying at least close or over the US (compared to trans-pac) is that the cockpit sends a message to a contracted medical service on the ground about the emergency with the particulars of the emergency. The ground MD then OKs the kit to be opened and treatment to begin. This process takes around 5-10 minutes, IME.
Why they didn't divert and emergency land is anyone's question. There is no way to know even if they were in the process of diverting, or the speed or length of time from onset of symptoms to her death.
Having not just one, but two, empty O2 cylinders is inexcusable however.
Feb 25, 2008, 6:48 am
#7
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Are those O2 tanks the same ones that the cabin crew use in case of an emergency or are they different? I would imagine that if they were the ones for the crew the FA union would be speaking out pretty loudly about their members being at risk.
Feb 25, 2008, 7:59 am
#8
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This is tragic and hits very close to home for me. I have mild asthma when on the ground. However, on several occasions have felt like I could not breathe on a flight and could not wait to get some "fresh" airport air. (I am not afraid of flying so it was not panic). Sometimes the airlines cut the air circulation to minimal to save on energy. One time I asked the FA to turn up the air circulation, which she did do.
Because of the overkill on security, I have stopped bringing my inhaler onboard so I can get thru the security without calling attention to myself. The inhaler must be displayed and then there is the chance of secondary which I will do anything to avoid. I also would not want the TSA people going anywhere near something I will put in my mouth. If they so much as breathe on the container, I would just toss it in the garbage - no way is that then going in my mouth. So, I check the inhaler instead. I wonder if this woman had the same concerns.
Because of the overkill on security, I have stopped bringing my inhaler onboard so I can get thru the security without calling attention to myself. The inhaler must be displayed and then there is the chance of secondary which I will do anything to avoid. I also would not want the TSA people going anywhere near something I will put in my mouth. If they so much as breathe on the container, I would just toss it in the garbage - no way is that then going in my mouth. So, I check the inhaler instead. I wonder if this woman had the same concerns.
Feb 25, 2008, 8:27 am
#9
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Why they didn't divert and emergency land is anyone's question. There is no way to know even if they were in the process of diverting, or the speed or length of time from onset of symptoms to her death.
Having not just one, but two, empty O2 cylinders is inexcusable however.
Having not just one, but two, empty O2 cylinders is inexcusable however.
Empty cylinders to you might seem inexcusable, but is a common procedure. Airlines usually carry more oxygen than is required. Each aircraft has a MEL - minimum equipment list. Before every flight ALL equipment must be checked and operational. Some things the plane can leave without - like oxygen. I'm not 100% sure what the MEL is for the aircraft involved but believe it is 10. With 2 cylinders out, there could still be 11 left meaning the aircraft can still depart. If there was only 9 tanks though - that aircraft would not of been able to depart. The question is why did the FA get empty cylinders - they all have pressure gauges indicating how full they are.
Passenger and crew oxygen cylinders are the same and can be used for who ever needs them first. The crew would not of been in danger cause the aircraft would not have been able to leave without at least 1 full cylinder for each crew member. As mentioned above, even though there were empty cylinders, there still would of been at the very least the minimum amount required and is very very very unlikely that all 10 would be faulty and empty.
Feb 25, 2008, 9:19 am
#10
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Thank goodness this wasn't on Ted. Even if there were oxygen in the bottle, the ill passenger would have only been allowed to use half of it.
Feb 25, 2008, 9:42 am
#11
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Fishster, you should have no problem carrying an inhaler through security. You do not have to show it to them (I keep one in a pocket in my purse and have never been asked to show it and I go through security 2-8 times a week). I always travel with at least two, and for a long overseas trip, three. Please don't stop carrying an inhaler because of security fears - it may save your life.
I am going to wait until all the facts are out before I pass judgement on AA.
I've had to use oxygen three times during flight, and have always been given it immediately and without issue (these incidents were not on AA, FWIW) by the FAs.
Very sad for the woman who died and for her cousin.
I am going to wait until all the facts are out before I pass judgement on AA.
I've had to use oxygen three times during flight, and have always been given it immediately and without issue (these incidents were not on AA, FWIW) by the FAs.
Very sad for the woman who died and for her cousin.
Feb 25, 2008, 11:28 am
#12
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American Airlines Statement Regarding Death of Passenger
FORT WORTH, Texas, Feb. 25 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- American Airlines is very saddened over the death of passenger Carine Desir on Flight 896 from Haiti to New York's JFK Airport last Friday and extends its deepest sympathy to the grieving family.
We are investigating this incident, as we do with all serious medical situations on board our aircraft, but American Airlines can say oxygen was administered and the Automatic External Defibrillator was applied.
Among the preflight duties of our highly trained Flight Attendants is a check of all emergency equipment on the aircraft. This includes checking the oxygen bottles -- there were 12 in this particular aircraft. We stand behind the actions and training of our crew and the functionality of the onboard medical equipment. We are also grateful to medical volunteers on this flight who came to the aid of a fellow traveler during flight.
FORT WORTH, Texas, Feb. 25 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- American Airlines is very saddened over the death of passenger Carine Desir on Flight 896 from Haiti to New York's JFK Airport last Friday and extends its deepest sympathy to the grieving family.
We are investigating this incident, as we do with all serious medical situations on board our aircraft, but American Airlines can say oxygen was administered and the Automatic External Defibrillator was applied.
Among the preflight duties of our highly trained Flight Attendants is a check of all emergency equipment on the aircraft. This includes checking the oxygen bottles -- there were 12 in this particular aircraft. We stand behind the actions and training of our crew and the functionality of the onboard medical equipment. We are also grateful to medical volunteers on this flight who came to the aid of a fellow traveler during flight.
Last edited by Bobster; Feb 25, 2008 at 3:53 pm Reason: fixed formatting of quote
Feb 25, 2008, 12:05 pm
#13
Join Date: Feb 2008
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This is not about a "law suit" people, a human being died because:
1- AA flight attendants did do anything to help.
2- The oxygen tanks were BOTH empty.
I am not surprised that the flight attendants did do anything to help that poor woman (I wonder if, the fact that the passenger was a black Haitian woman had anything to do with the inhuman reaction from the AA crew...). AA flight attendants are the rudest in the industry. But they are especially nastier in flights from and to Latin-America. Luckily JetBlue, Continental, Lan and Delta provide a much better service and better prices to those destinations!
And another thing, American Airline should stop using the "9-11" excuse as escape goat to justify their incredibly poor service, the rude and inconsiderate employees, and the filthiness and bad condition of their airplanes.
Shame on you American Airlines!
1- AA flight attendants did do anything to help.
2- The oxygen tanks were BOTH empty.
I am not surprised that the flight attendants did do anything to help that poor woman (I wonder if, the fact that the passenger was a black Haitian woman had anything to do with the inhuman reaction from the AA crew...). AA flight attendants are the rudest in the industry. But they are especially nastier in flights from and to Latin-America. Luckily JetBlue, Continental, Lan and Delta provide a much better service and better prices to those destinations!
And another thing, American Airline should stop using the "9-11" excuse as escape goat to justify their incredibly poor service, the rude and inconsiderate employees, and the filthiness and bad condition of their airplanes.
Shame on you American Airlines!
Last edited by Denisse23; Feb 25, 2008 at 12:18 pm Reason: spellings
Feb 25, 2008, 12:33 pm
#14
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This is tragic and hits very close to home for me. I have mild asthma when on the ground.
Because of the overkill on security, I have stopped bringing my inhaler onboard so I can get thru the security without calling attention to myself. The inhaler must be displayed and then there is the chance of secondary which I will do anything to avoid. I also would not want the TSA people going anywhere near something I will put in my mouth. If they so much as breathe on the container, I would just toss it in the garbage - no way is that then going in my mouth. So, I check the inhaler instead. I wonder if this woman had the same concerns.
Because of the overkill on security, I have stopped bringing my inhaler onboard so I can get thru the security without calling attention to myself. The inhaler must be displayed and then there is the chance of secondary which I will do anything to avoid. I also would not want the TSA people going anywhere near something I will put in my mouth. If they so much as breathe on the container, I would just toss it in the garbage - no way is that then going in my mouth. So, I check the inhaler instead. I wonder if this woman had the same concerns.
Checking anyone for asthma and wheezing during a flight is completely impossible over the jet's engines. Regardless of anything that happens with TSA, don't put your life at risk like this. Thank you.
Feb 25, 2008, 12:34 pm
#15
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SecertSea18 - I will agree with you some of the medical kits are very well stocked then there are others that make me wonder especially when over half the supplies are expired, thank goodness i didnt need to use them. As for the o2 Tanks this is the first thing i check on the truck on a daily basis (this goes for the big o2 tanks and the smaller ones as well for the one in use and the spares that are sealed by the gas supplier) before doing anything else in the truck check list. Now when i fly this is going to be one thing I ask about now as you never know when its going to hit the fan.
eoinnz- so do o go through life doing the basic minimum to get by? first ignoring requests for help opens you to alot of liability then by presenting not one but two is gross negligence in that AA is going to have to defend themselves against in court or in the court of public opinion. It is simply inexcusible for what the cabin crew did in this case, and i hope that they are prepared for whats coming next as theres most likely going to be a lawyer tearing them apart on the stand, and having witnessed it, it is not a pretty sight. Im a paramedic and i can tell you that my truck doesnt leave the station without checking it out fully not only for what our checklist requires, but for additional items i put on that go above and beyond the required list. On the o2 bottles you should be able to tell if its used or not by looking at it as full unused tanks have seals on them. if i dont see a seal on a tank and it doesnt have a regulator on it i pull it from the truck and get a new one. Even if the bottles where empty then the captain should have popped the masks and that would have given the responders on the plane more o2.
Fishter - just stuff the inhaler in your carryon and put it through. if TSA is giving you grief you need to ask them for there medical license as they cant question medications of travelers, especially one as necessary as a inhaler for a asthmatic. I cant tell you how many asthmatics i have seen end up in pretty bad situations when they didnt have there rescue inhalers.
Bobster - thanks for that article quote, but AA shot it self in the foot by issuing that release by saying the FAs are highly trained and that they are to check the o2 bottles on each preflight. That obviously didnt happen because the 2 empties wounldnt have been pulled out.
This will be very interesting to watch as it progresses as this is going to bring to light a few issues that will need to be addressed by AA ASAPOS.
eoinnz- so do o go through life doing the basic minimum to get by? first ignoring requests for help opens you to alot of liability then by presenting not one but two is gross negligence in that AA is going to have to defend themselves against in court or in the court of public opinion. It is simply inexcusible for what the cabin crew did in this case, and i hope that they are prepared for whats coming next as theres most likely going to be a lawyer tearing them apart on the stand, and having witnessed it, it is not a pretty sight. Im a paramedic and i can tell you that my truck doesnt leave the station without checking it out fully not only for what our checklist requires, but for additional items i put on that go above and beyond the required list. On the o2 bottles you should be able to tell if its used or not by looking at it as full unused tanks have seals on them. if i dont see a seal on a tank and it doesnt have a regulator on it i pull it from the truck and get a new one. Even if the bottles where empty then the captain should have popped the masks and that would have given the responders on the plane more o2.
Fishter - just stuff the inhaler in your carryon and put it through. if TSA is giving you grief you need to ask them for there medical license as they cant question medications of travelers, especially one as necessary as a inhaler for a asthmatic. I cant tell you how many asthmatics i have seen end up in pretty bad situations when they didnt have there rescue inhalers.
Bobster - thanks for that article quote, but AA shot it self in the foot by issuing that release by saying the FAs are highly trained and that they are to check the o2 bottles on each preflight. That obviously didnt happen because the 2 empties wounldnt have been pulled out.
This will be very interesting to watch as it progresses as this is going to bring to light a few issues that will need to be addressed by AA ASAPOS.