Angry tourists break mugger's neck
#151
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Bruce Wayne's parents were just being robbed at gun point.
That one worked out REAL well for the family.....
I think the point most people who say they would do something are making is that every situation is different. And calls for different action. Blanket give them the money answers do NOT mean you're going home to the wife and kids or whoever you care about. Just like attempting to fight back does not mean that you're going to be safe.
Bottom line that a lot of lawyers and misguided people in a lot of places (including america) have created is that there is no consequences for your own actions anymore. If you are committing a crime you are giving up your rights while the crime is in progress.
My favorite stories are the one's where criminals break into a house and get shot. Then crime mommy goes and sues the home owner for violating her dead son's civil rights.......... What a (deleted) Joke.
That one worked out REAL well for the family.....
I think the point most people who say they would do something are making is that every situation is different. And calls for different action. Blanket give them the money answers do NOT mean you're going home to the wife and kids or whoever you care about. Just like attempting to fight back does not mean that you're going to be safe.
Bottom line that a lot of lawyers and misguided people in a lot of places (including america) have created is that there is no consequences for your own actions anymore. If you are committing a crime you are giving up your rights while the crime is in progress.
My favorite stories are the one's where criminals break into a house and get shot. Then crime mommy goes and sues the home owner for violating her dead son's civil rights.......... What a (deleted) Joke.
#152
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Posts: 2,419
If by some twisted logic you mean during the commission of a violent crime such as this, I have no sympathy for the criminal whatsoever.
Human or trollish civilization?
Last edited by taucher; Feb 28, 2007 at 8:29 pm
#153
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Rubbish. Kill a mugger during the act and you'll be celebrated anywhere in this country. No one will question whether you acted with excessive force. Even Bernard Goetz was acquitted of all but a weapons charge.
#154
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That's right. I remember that VERY WELL. Those men got what they deserved when they tried to rob Goetz on the subway. ^ Crime doesn't pay.
#155
Join Date: Apr 2006
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The troll has been beaten down; I think congratulations are in order to all that participated in the beat down. Perhaps Sjoerd will think twice before trolling here in the future.
#156
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Had it happened in this country, the two knife-wielding friends of the dead mugger could very well be charged with a capital crime in the death of their dead mugger friend.
Felony Murder statutes in many of our States are written broadly enough to hold accomplices liable even for the death of a fellow perp - not just the death of an innocent victim.
I find it very difficult to sympathise with felons who wind up dead during the commission of their crimes. Your mileage may vary.
Maybe things are different in The Netherlands, but in most places here, pulling a gun on someone in close quarters will be found by police, prosecutors and courts as sufficient justification for any self-defense response by the intended victim(s), even if it ends in death for the criminal.
Pretty easy for the dead mugger to avoid, as it's pretty unlikely the elderly ex-Marine went looking for someone to kill that day. The mugger and his partners in crime, however, were out to commit some felonies. And thankfully, even in Costa Rica, the authorities exhibit sensible and reasonable responses when unarmed foreign tourists are ambushed by three armed thugs and things go wrong for one of the thieves.
Felony Murder statutes in many of our States are written broadly enough to hold accomplices liable even for the death of a fellow perp - not just the death of an innocent victim.
I find it very difficult to sympathise with felons who wind up dead during the commission of their crimes. Your mileage may vary.
Maybe things are different in The Netherlands, but in most places here, pulling a gun on someone in close quarters will be found by police, prosecutors and courts as sufficient justification for any self-defense response by the intended victim(s), even if it ends in death for the criminal.
Pretty easy for the dead mugger to avoid, as it's pretty unlikely the elderly ex-Marine went looking for someone to kill that day. The mugger and his partners in crime, however, were out to commit some felonies. And thankfully, even in Costa Rica, the authorities exhibit sensible and reasonable responses when unarmed foreign tourists are ambushed by three armed thugs and things go wrong for one of the thieves.
#157
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There is a deli I go to. Seven or eight years ago, the two shopkeepers there were just the nicest people you've ever met. They were doing well and started staying open 24 hours (which I swear I just knew was going to be a big mistake, considering that it's out of the way). Sure enough, one night, there was an armed robbery. One of the guys is shot. He later died in the hospital. Never caught the perps. Other stories I know.
So it's nearly impossible for me to feel bad when I read these stories about such perps getting the same crap back that they are dishing out.
So it's nearly impossible for me to feel bad when I read these stories about such perps getting the same crap back that they are dishing out.
#158
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Yes, I was wondering about that. Don't know the law in Costa Rica. If the police find the other two scumbags, I wonder if they will be charged in the death or if that is a law specific to the U.S. Seems like such a law could be a good tool for keeping a couple of lowlifes off the street.
Had it happened in this country, the two knife-wielding friends of the dead mugger could very well be charged with a capital crime in the death of their dead mugger friend.
Felony Murder statutes in many of our States are written broadly enough to hold accomplices liable even for the death of a fellow perp - not just the death of an innocent victim.
.
Felony Murder statutes in many of our States are written broadly enough to hold accomplices liable even for the death of a fellow perp - not just the death of an innocent victim.
.
#159
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Had it happened in this country, the two knife-wielding friends of the dead mugger could very well be charged with a capital crime in the death of their dead mugger friend.
Felony Murder statutes in many of our States are written broadly enough to hold accomplices liable even for the death of a fellow perp - not just the death of an innocent victim.
I find it very difficult to sympathise with felons who wind up dead during the commission of their crimes. Your mileage may vary.
Maybe things are different in The Netherlands, but in most places here, pulling a gun on someone in close quarters will be found by police, prosecutors and courts as sufficient justification for any self-defense response by the intended victim(s), even if it ends in death for the criminal.
Pretty easy for the dead mugger to avoid, as it's pretty unlikely the elderly ex-Marine went looking for someone to kill that day. The mugger and his partners in crime, however, were out to commit some felonies. And thankfully, even in Costa Rica, the authorities exhibit sensible and reasonable responses when unarmed foreign tourists are ambushed by three armed thugs and things go wrong for one of the thieves.
Felony Murder statutes in many of our States are written broadly enough to hold accomplices liable even for the death of a fellow perp - not just the death of an innocent victim.
I find it very difficult to sympathise with felons who wind up dead during the commission of their crimes. Your mileage may vary.
Maybe things are different in The Netherlands, but in most places here, pulling a gun on someone in close quarters will be found by police, prosecutors and courts as sufficient justification for any self-defense response by the intended victim(s), even if it ends in death for the criminal.
Pretty easy for the dead mugger to avoid, as it's pretty unlikely the elderly ex-Marine went looking for someone to kill that day. The mugger and his partners in crime, however, were out to commit some felonies. And thankfully, even in Costa Rica, the authorities exhibit sensible and reasonable responses when unarmed foreign tourists are ambushed by three armed thugs and things go wrong for one of the thieves.
If you're a robber, and the dude you're robbing also has one, he won't hesitate to shoot you either. That's his life, and more likely, his assumption is that you as a robber would also plan on using it.
I realize that's a lot of "kill or be killed" but the idea in the US at least is that one can defend themselves if they feel their life is threatened. If you got a gun to my neck, you better believe I'll feel like my life is in danger.
#160
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 71
I gotta know...where does Sjoerd stand on the issue of Bernie Goetz? Sjoerd is probably one of those people who think ax-murderers should get HBO in prison.
I also think that dhuey is actually with most of us here - he does not believe anyone is guilty of murder or manslaughter or anything - he just doesn't believe the retired marine should have done what he did.
While I wouldn't have handled the situation the way the tourists did, and would probably be apt to just hand over my money, I don't consider the retired marine to be guilty of anything. It was self-defense. Also, it is unlikely any jury would convict him of murder or manslaughter - in Costa Rica OR the USA. The tourist industry may have been something of a factor in charges not being pressed against the guy (probably that's why he was cleared the same day), but the fact remains he acted in self-defense. While I don't believe people should be vigilantes against crime, I also don't shed any tears over violent career criminals being killed when they are attempting yet another violent crime. Something like this was bound to happen to Wagner Segura sooner or later.
It is not smart to fight with someone who has a gun pointed at you, but remember, none of us were actually there. Things probably happened very quickly and the retired marine reacted in the heat of the moment.
I also think that dhuey is actually with most of us here - he does not believe anyone is guilty of murder or manslaughter or anything - he just doesn't believe the retired marine should have done what he did.
While I wouldn't have handled the situation the way the tourists did, and would probably be apt to just hand over my money, I don't consider the retired marine to be guilty of anything. It was self-defense. Also, it is unlikely any jury would convict him of murder or manslaughter - in Costa Rica OR the USA. The tourist industry may have been something of a factor in charges not being pressed against the guy (probably that's why he was cleared the same day), but the fact remains he acted in self-defense. While I don't believe people should be vigilantes against crime, I also don't shed any tears over violent career criminals being killed when they are attempting yet another violent crime. Something like this was bound to happen to Wagner Segura sooner or later.
It is not smart to fight with someone who has a gun pointed at you, but remember, none of us were actually there. Things probably happened very quickly and the retired marine reacted in the heat of the moment.
#161
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I concede that every situation is different, and you need to judge your best move carefully. Still, if survival is your goal, I think you should have a very heavy predisposition to hand over your wallet to someone who demands it, assuming they have a gun/knife pointed in your direction.
Last edited by dhuey; Mar 3, 2007 at 10:47 pm
#162
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#163
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That may very well be. After all, it were the Rambos in the American government that believed that they could make the world safer by invading Iraq. And even 4 years into that disaster they still claim they were right.
Now have a look at http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita
compare the US to most of Europe, and decide for yourself which method works best: "shoot first talk later" or vice versa.
Now have a look at http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita
compare the US to most of Europe, and decide for yourself which method works best: "shoot first talk later" or vice versa.
#165
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I don't see your point because Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, Georgia, and Bulgaria are all EUROPEAN countries that have higher crime rates than US. Besides the above 9 countries above with higher crime (murder) rates, I don't see how you injected Iraq into this discussion.
There are videos circulating out of the Netherlands supporting all this rubbish