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Angry tourists break mugger's neck

Angry tourists break mugger's neck

Old Feb 28, 2007, 7:08 pm
  #151  
 
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Bruce Wayne's parents were just being robbed at gun point.

That one worked out REAL well for the family.....

I think the point most people who say they would do something are making is that every situation is different. And calls for different action. Blanket give them the money answers do NOT mean you're going home to the wife and kids or whoever you care about. Just like attempting to fight back does not mean that you're going to be safe.

Bottom line that a lot of lawyers and misguided people in a lot of places (including america) have created is that there is no consequences for your own actions anymore. If you are committing a crime you are giving up your rights while the crime is in progress.

My favorite stories are the one's where criminals break into a house and get shot. Then crime mommy goes and sues the home owner for violating her dead son's civil rights.......... What a (deleted) Joke.
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Old Feb 28, 2007, 8:20 pm
  #152  
 
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Originally Posted by Sjoerd
So you think the death penalty is the appropriate punishment for mugging.
In a court of law? Lacking aggravating circumstances, no.

If by some twisted logic you mean during the commission of a violent crime such as this, I have no sympathy for the criminal whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Sjoerd
You misunderstood me. The term civilization is used in those cases that respect for human life is shown.
I understood you; "effete" and "degenerate" are the terms I would use for the theoretical society you describe.

Originally Posted by Sjoerd
I said that the police should have investigated more thoroughly and the man should be tried in a court of law, and if found guilty of manslaughter, should get a prison sentence. What's wrong with that?
So who said "So to me, until more facts are published, the marine is guilty of manslaughter." then?

Originally Posted by Sjoerd
Read the thread. I was not the first one to use the word "idiot" on this thread.
Oh, so it's justifiable to respond in kind? In that case, you're just going to LOVE the following quote:

Originally Posted by Sjoerd
Yeah, let's go back to "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". Seems like a lot of people here have missed a couple of thousand years of civilization.
So that's a couple of thousand years of civilization you say you're missing there?

Human or trollish civilization?

Last edited by taucher; Feb 28, 2007 at 8:29 pm
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Old Feb 28, 2007, 9:18 pm
  #153  
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Originally Posted by tenmoc
...Bottom line that a lot of lawyers and misguided people in a lot of places (including america) have created is that there is no consequences for your own actions anymore. If you are committing a crime you are giving up your rights while the crime is in progress.
...
Rubbish. Kill a mugger during the act and you'll be celebrated anywhere in this country. No one will question whether you acted with excessive force. Even Bernard Goetz was acquitted of all but a weapons charge.
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Old Mar 1, 2007, 7:28 am
  #154  
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Originally Posted by dhuey
Rubbish. Kill a mugger during the act and you'll be celebrated anywhere in this country. No one will question whether you acted with excessive force. Even Bernard Goetz was acquitted of all but a weapons charge.
That's right. I remember that VERY WELL. Those men got what they deserved when they tried to rob Goetz on the subway. ^ Crime doesn't pay.
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Old Mar 1, 2007, 8:07 am
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Originally Posted by Sjoerd

Well, I am done with this thread. And very sorry to see that the vast majority of posters have very, very little respect for human life. Have a nice day.
The troll has been beaten down; I think congratulations are in order to all that participated in the beat down. Perhaps Sjoerd will think twice before trolling here in the future.
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Old Mar 1, 2007, 12:02 pm
  #156  
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Had it happened in this country, the two knife-wielding friends of the dead mugger could very well be charged with a capital crime in the death of their dead mugger friend.

Felony Murder statutes in many of our States are written broadly enough to hold accomplices liable even for the death of a fellow perp - not just the death of an innocent victim.

I find it very difficult to sympathise with felons who wind up dead during the commission of their crimes. Your mileage may vary.

Maybe things are different in The Netherlands, but in most places here, pulling a gun on someone in close quarters will be found by police, prosecutors and courts as sufficient justification for any self-defense response by the intended victim(s), even if it ends in death for the criminal.

Pretty easy for the dead mugger to avoid, as it's pretty unlikely the elderly ex-Marine went looking for someone to kill that day. The mugger and his partners in crime, however, were out to commit some felonies. And thankfully, even in Costa Rica, the authorities exhibit sensible and reasonable responses when unarmed foreign tourists are ambushed by three armed thugs and things go wrong for one of the thieves.
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Old Mar 1, 2007, 12:22 pm
  #157  
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There is a deli I go to. Seven or eight years ago, the two shopkeepers there were just the nicest people you've ever met. They were doing well and started staying open 24 hours (which I swear I just knew was going to be a big mistake, considering that it's out of the way). Sure enough, one night, there was an armed robbery. One of the guys is shot. He later died in the hospital. Never caught the perps. Other stories I know.

So it's nearly impossible for me to feel bad when I read these stories about such perps getting the same crap back that they are dishing out.
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Old Mar 1, 2007, 1:19 pm
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Yes, I was wondering about that. Don't know the law in Costa Rica. If the police find the other two scumbags, I wonder if they will be charged in the death or if that is a law specific to the U.S. Seems like such a law could be a good tool for keeping a couple of lowlifes off the street.

Originally Posted by FWAAA
Had it happened in this country, the two knife-wielding friends of the dead mugger could very well be charged with a capital crime in the death of their dead mugger friend.

Felony Murder statutes in many of our States are written broadly enough to hold accomplices liable even for the death of a fellow perp - not just the death of an innocent victim.

.
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Old Mar 1, 2007, 6:21 pm
  #159  
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Originally Posted by FWAAA
Had it happened in this country, the two knife-wielding friends of the dead mugger could very well be charged with a capital crime in the death of their dead mugger friend.

Felony Murder statutes in many of our States are written broadly enough to hold accomplices liable even for the death of a fellow perp - not just the death of an innocent victim.

I find it very difficult to sympathise with felons who wind up dead during the commission of their crimes. Your mileage may vary.

Maybe things are different in The Netherlands, but in most places here, pulling a gun on someone in close quarters will be found by police, prosecutors and courts as sufficient justification for any self-defense response by the intended victim(s), even if it ends in death for the criminal.

Pretty easy for the dead mugger to avoid, as it's pretty unlikely the elderly ex-Marine went looking for someone to kill that day. The mugger and his partners in crime, however, were out to commit some felonies. And thankfully, even in Costa Rica, the authorities exhibit sensible and reasonable responses when unarmed foreign tourists are ambushed by three armed thugs and things go wrong for one of the thieves.
My thought is that if a dude pulling out a gun, you better be prepared to use it.

If you're a robber, and the dude you're robbing also has one, he won't hesitate to shoot you either. That's his life, and more likely, his assumption is that you as a robber would also plan on using it.

I realize that's a lot of "kill or be killed" but the idea in the US at least is that one can defend themselves if they feel their life is threatened. If you got a gun to my neck, you better believe I'll feel like my life is in danger.
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Old Mar 3, 2007, 8:34 pm
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I gotta know...where does Sjoerd stand on the issue of Bernie Goetz? Sjoerd is probably one of those people who think ax-murderers should get HBO in prison.

I also think that dhuey is actually with most of us here - he does not believe anyone is guilty of murder or manslaughter or anything - he just doesn't believe the retired marine should have done what he did.

While I wouldn't have handled the situation the way the tourists did, and would probably be apt to just hand over my money, I don't consider the retired marine to be guilty of anything. It was self-defense. Also, it is unlikely any jury would convict him of murder or manslaughter - in Costa Rica OR the USA. The tourist industry may have been something of a factor in charges not being pressed against the guy (probably that's why he was cleared the same day), but the fact remains he acted in self-defense. While I don't believe people should be vigilantes against crime, I also don't shed any tears over violent career criminals being killed when they are attempting yet another violent crime. Something like this was bound to happen to Wagner Segura sooner or later.

It is not smart to fight with someone who has a gun pointed at you, but remember, none of us were actually there. Things probably happened very quickly and the retired marine reacted in the heat of the moment.
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Old Mar 3, 2007, 9:01 pm
  #161  
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Originally Posted by caj11
...I also think that dhuey is actually with most of us here - he does not believe anyone is guilty of murder or manslaughter or anything - he just doesn't believe the retired marine should have done what he did....
Yes, you understand my opinion. I'm very reluctant to question the violent reaction of anyone being mugged (although Bernard Goetz presented an extreme case that I do question). My point is simply about what your best move for survival is.

I concede that every situation is different, and you need to judge your best move carefully. Still, if survival is your goal, I think you should have a very heavy predisposition to hand over your wallet to someone who demands it, assuming they have a gun/knife pointed in your direction.

Last edited by dhuey; Mar 3, 2007 at 10:47 pm
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Old Mar 4, 2007, 5:30 am
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Originally Posted by caj11
I gotta know...where does Sjoerd stand on the issue of Bernie Goetz? Sjoerd is probably one of those people who think ax-murderers should get HBO in prison.
The Bernie Goetz case is way older than Sjoerd.
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Old Mar 4, 2007, 6:17 am
  #163  
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Originally Posted by Sjoerd
That may very well be. After all, it were the Rambos in the American government that believed that they could make the world safer by invading Iraq. And even 4 years into that disaster they still claim they were right.

Now have a look at http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita
compare the US to most of Europe, and decide for yourself which method works best: "shoot first talk later" or vice versa.
I don't see your point because Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, Georgia, and Bulgaria are all EUROPEAN countries that have higher crime rates than US. Besides the above 9 countries above with higher crime (murder) rates, I don't see how you injected Iraq into this discussion.
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Old Mar 4, 2007, 6:37 am
  #164  
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Last edited by Bart; Feb 9, 2008 at 8:54 pm
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Old Mar 4, 2007, 1:47 pm
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Originally Posted by flyfarfar
I don't see your point because Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, Georgia, and Bulgaria are all EUROPEAN countries that have higher crime rates than US. Besides the above 9 countries above with higher crime (murder) rates, I don't see how you injected Iraq into this discussion.
People from the Netherlands are really very strange. A large number of them subscribe to conspiracy's about 9/11 and that it was a CIA operation or the US Government knew it was going to happen and let it so they could go into Afghanistan and Iraq and that the US blew up the Pentagon themselves.

There are videos circulating out of the Netherlands supporting all this rubbish
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