Travelers: Air marshal aimed gun in Delta cabin
Sep 5, 2002, 8:28 pm
#33
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mdtony:
I think I'll do something crazy here and wait until all the facts are in before I make a judgement. But I have no axe to grind with the TSA or the air marshalls, so I guess that makes me a little different here.</font>
I think I'll do something crazy here and wait until all the facts are in before I make a judgement. But I have no axe to grind with the TSA or the air marshalls, so I guess that makes me a little different here.</font>
Tony: Have enough facts been released you you to make a judgment?
It seems to me that the TSA is doing its best to cover up what went on, and considering the cops chose not to file charges against the guy, it seems the evidence against him was pretty flimsy...yet not flimsy enough for the marshall to wave his gun around...
Sep 6, 2002, 3:20 pm
#34
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From the AP:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TRAVEL/NEWS/....ap/index.html
"An incident aboard Delta Flight 442 over the weekend has prompted critics of the federal air marshal program to argue that post-September 11 changes in the way officers handle danger aboard jets could prove to actually decrease safety."
How many more possibly inappropriate, armed responses are going to happen before someone gets shot? Cough up full disclosure on this one NOW, TSA.
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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 09-06-2002).]
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TRAVEL/NEWS/....ap/index.html
"An incident aboard Delta Flight 442 over the weekend has prompted critics of the federal air marshal program to argue that post-September 11 changes in the way officers handle danger aboard jets could prove to actually decrease safety."
How many more possibly inappropriate, armed responses are going to happen before someone gets shot? Cough up full disclosure on this one NOW, TSA.
------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 09-06-2002).]
Sep 6, 2002, 3:44 pm
#35
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Any action taken under the guise of *security* is permitted. They can search your bags and your person, wand you, check for residue, cite the "GI Joe" rule about weapons, and deny boarding because of *concern* by anyone, whether warranted or not, about your appearance or behavior, and passengers have no recourse. Don't expect any proceedural changes or consequences for the AMs.
[This message has been edited by flowerchild (edited 09-06-2002).]
[This message has been edited by flowerchild (edited 09-06-2002).]
Sep 6, 2002, 6:47 pm
#36
Join Date: Jun 2002
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I'm suprised you guys all missed this part.
"Lineberger said he hadn't noticed any disturbance before the marshals took the man to first class "
Sounds like this fellow got an "operational upgrade" courtesy of the air marshalls! I'm sure that there were elite's on the flight who deserved the move to first class above this guy. This is worse then United's "employee class". Where is your moral outrage?
Yes I'm being sarcastic, just thought it was funny that they take suspects up toward the cockpit and put them in first class. I'd detain them in the aft lavatory.
"Lineberger said he hadn't noticed any disturbance before the marshals took the man to first class "
Sounds like this fellow got an "operational upgrade" courtesy of the air marshalls! I'm sure that there were elite's on the flight who deserved the move to first class above this guy. This is worse then United's "employee class". Where is your moral outrage?
Yes I'm being sarcastic, just thought it was funny that they take suspects up toward the cockpit and put them in first class. I'd detain them in the aft lavatory.
Sep 9, 2002, 7:32 am
#37
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DADISGARYK:
Tony: Have enough facts been released you you to make a judgment?</font>
Tony: Have enough facts been released you you to make a judgment?</font>
That's the crazy thing about these investigations. They take time. It took what, a year, before the NTSB released its findings about the TWA flight that blew up in midair.
Of course, there are those who are busy looking to make judgements based upon their personal beliefs, but what can you do?
Sep 9, 2002, 8:12 am
#38
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mdtony,
That's not a very good comparison. Figuring out the cause of a mysterious plane crash where most of the evidence is under water obviously takes some time. Figuring out whether a law-enforcement officer should have had his gun drawn is quite a bit simpler -- and follows well-understood rules, by the way, unlike plane crashes.
I don't have access to all of the facts, and the "facts" that I do have come from news reports. Still, based on what seems to be true here, I believe -- not "know" -- that the behavior of the air marshals was inappropriate. I suspect that they have already been disciplined, but the whole episode is being kept very quiet for some reason. The government's failure to defend the marshals' actions speaks pretty loudly, though, doesn't it?
Bruce
That's not a very good comparison. Figuring out the cause of a mysterious plane crash where most of the evidence is under water obviously takes some time. Figuring out whether a law-enforcement officer should have had his gun drawn is quite a bit simpler -- and follows well-understood rules, by the way, unlike plane crashes.
I don't have access to all of the facts, and the "facts" that I do have come from news reports. Still, based on what seems to be true here, I believe -- not "know" -- that the behavior of the air marshals was inappropriate. I suspect that they have already been disciplined, but the whole episode is being kept very quiet for some reason. The government's failure to defend the marshals' actions speaks pretty loudly, though, doesn't it?
Bruce
Sep 9, 2002, 10:37 am
#39
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:
Figuring out whether a law-enforcement officer should have had his gun drawn is quite a bit simpler -- and follows well-understood rules, by the way, unlike plane crashes.
I don't have access to all of the facts, and the "facts" that I do have come from news reports. Still, based on what seems to be true here, I believe -- not "know" -- that the behavior of the air marshals was inappropriate.</font>
Figuring out whether a law-enforcement officer should have had his gun drawn is quite a bit simpler -- and follows well-understood rules, by the way, unlike plane crashes.
I don't have access to all of the facts, and the "facts" that I do have come from news reports. Still, based on what seems to be true here, I believe -- not "know" -- that the behavior of the air marshals was inappropriate.</font>
Now, based upon what I have read -- one sided information, to be sure -- yes, I think that the air marshall was out of line. However, I have not seen an official report yet, and I have not heard his side of the story, so I will wait until that's done before I make a final decision.
And that sounds like what you are doing as well.
Sep 9, 2002, 11:13 am
#40
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Yes, that's right. I suspect that the air marshal overreacted, but I would be very interested in hearing what he has to say.
Bruce
Bruce