Consolidated "Airbus 380 - problems and discontinuation" thread
Dec 14, 2014, 12:19 am
#226
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I have not heard of ordinary Y flyers going out of their way to fly the A380. Only of status FTers doing that, who do the same for the 787.
Dec 14, 2014, 5:33 am
#227
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I've been flying with EK since before they had any A380s. There are definitely many people outside of FT who have chosen specific routes/flights simply to fly on one.
Dec 14, 2014, 12:20 pm
#228
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I'm sure there are...but not nearly enough to warrant the aircraft for the masses or to warrant any airlines to purchase more, obviously.
Dec 14, 2014, 9:13 pm
#229
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Yeah, I doubt the number of people who are choosing to go on an A380 because of the plane type are a pretty small blip at best in the grand scheme of things. My guess is the average coach flyer wouldn't have a clue what type of plane they were flying on if you asked them.
Dec 14, 2014, 10:05 pm
#230
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My guess is that that would be true for any plane other than the 747 and A380. The A380 is not only easy to pick from any other plane, but has been heavily promoted by carriers using it. (NZ has heavily promoted its new Dreamliners too, such as by having half the front page of a Perth newspaper covered in an ad for them when the PER-AKL service launched. I'm not sure how many people will care/notice given it's just one route though.)
Dec 14, 2014, 10:13 pm
#231
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Has no one mentioned 2 important considerations.
1. How many 747s are in operation the world over circa 1000-2000? all will need replacing in the next decade. Sure some will be downsided to 777 or A350. But if even a third are suitable for upscaling to A380s. There's your total break even for Airbus.
2. The last slot pair at Heathrow sold for 28million... If other operators can use bigger planes to reduced frequency to and from Heathrow as BA just did with LHR to LAX that's 28million to a business in cash... 10% off the outright cost of one of the panes... Or 20-30% considering most planes are leased.
1. How many 747s are in operation the world over circa 1000-2000? all will need replacing in the next decade. Sure some will be downsided to 777 or A350. But if even a third are suitable for upscaling to A380s. There's your total break even for Airbus.
2. The last slot pair at Heathrow sold for 28million... If other operators can use bigger planes to reduced frequency to and from Heathrow as BA just did with LHR to LAX that's 28million to a business in cash... 10% off the outright cost of one of the panes... Or 20-30% considering most planes are leased.
Dec 14, 2014, 10:17 pm
#232
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Yeah, I doubt the number of people who are choosing to go on an A380 because of the plane type are a pretty small blip at best in the grand scheme of things. My guess is the average coach flyer wouldn't have a clue what type of plane they were flying on if you asked them.
BA's 777 and A380 leave Hong Kong within an hour of each other.... The A380 is always the more expensive ticket and the fuller plane in premium classes and that's with travel agents actively trying to book passangers on to the 777.
Dec 14, 2014, 10:47 pm
#233
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I think that the A380s are working at the moment as Emirates connects a bunch of places that can't support individual connections. The US industry went through the same transition, but as flying increased the number of economic direct connections increased and the consumer preference for direct flights made itself felt. That's why there are no longer any 747 flights in the domestic US, except for special situations, and wide body flights are a rarity. I think that if the international aviation industry continues at its growth pace this same trend will make itself felt, and Emirates will find itself needing a very different inventory. This is constrained a bit by the international restrictions on direct flights by non flag carriers, but I imagine money will find a way.
It's feeling more and more like Boeing was right to drop out of the program that resulted in the A380.
Last edited by Boghopper; Dec 14, 2014 at 10:57 pm
Dec 14, 2014, 10:49 pm
#234
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Why in the world are TAs actively booking "passangers [sic]" on the 777?
Dec 16, 2014, 2:55 am
#235
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My guess is that that would be true for any plane other than the 747 and A380. The A380 is not only easy to pick from any other plane, but has been heavily promoted by carriers using it. (NZ has heavily promoted its new Dreamliners too, such as by having half the front page of a Perth newspaper covered in an ad for them when the PER-AKL service launched. I'm not sure how many people will care/notice given it's just one route though.)
Even if the website shows the aircraft type, (not all do,) it doesn't mean the traveler will even know what that means. Heck, you even have some elite travelers that don't know the difference between a 757 and 767 - just that sometimes, their plane is 3-3 and others 2-3-2
Dec 16, 2014, 6:58 am
#236
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No 747 or A380 orders in 2014. Production could end in 2018 unless orders pick up.
Some still remain bullish:
http://flightclub.jalopnik.com/world...-up-1669698240
Some still remain bullish:
Dubai-based Emirates has 55 A380s in service, plus orders for 85 more, and has been pushing Airbus to offer more efficient engines for the WhaleJet. Emirates CEO Tim Clark says that Airlines need the A380 because passenger traffic is expected to double in the next 10 years. Clark said, "If airlines don't believe they can fill an A380 then their business model is wrong. If they can't fill it there is something wrong with their marketing." Clark said Emirates would buy 140 A380neos if Airbus decides to build them. An A380-900 would hold 650 passengers in a standard multi-class configuration, while an all economy version could hold over 900 passengers. Nine. Hundred.
Dec 16, 2014, 6:37 pm
#237
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If Airbus comes up with a more efficient engine for the A380 (actually, GE or Rolls Royce or ...), couldn't Boeing also use that engine on the B747-8i; thus extending the lifetime and production of both?
Dec 17, 2014, 7:49 am
#239
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While the 747-8 is certainly a failure, the money invested is a pittance compared to what Airbus spent on the A380.
Keep in mind that part of the reason for the 747-8 to exist was to deny market share to the A380. Boeing knows the VLA market is small and even stealing a fairly modest number of orders from Airbus would justify the 747-8s existence. Even the very small numbers of 747-8 orders that KE, LH and CA have placed would have represented an additional year+ of production of the A380.
Keep in mind that part of the reason for the 747-8 to exist was to deny market share to the A380. Boeing knows the VLA market is small and even stealing a fairly modest number of orders from Airbus would justify the 747-8s existence. Even the very small numbers of 747-8 orders that KE, LH and CA have placed would have represented an additional year+ of production of the A380.
It is doing quite well as a freighter.
Dec 17, 2014, 8:19 am
#240
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The small order book you mention could be filled within a year. Instead since business is so bad, Boeing has continued to cut the production rate in order to stretch out the backlog.