Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Travel News
Reload this Page >

How Airlines Make Less Than $6 Per Passenger

Community
Wiki Posts
Search

How Airlines Make Less Than $6 Per Passenger

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jun 3, 2014, 11:05 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Programs: AA, Delta, Singapore Airlines
Posts: 701
How Airlines Make Less Than $6 Per Passenger

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/03/tr...usiness&page=0
RussianTexan is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2014, 1:51 pm
  #2  
Formerly known as tireman77
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,509
Interesting perspective. Especially since these are better times for the industry.
PLeblond is online now  
Old Jun 3, 2014, 2:21 pm
  #3  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: Jose Cuervo Gold, Bud Light Platinum, Schwab 401K, VW Bug 2MM
Posts: 1,100
This is slightly misleading. Its really a volume issue. Low percentage margins work if you have high volume. Just ask all those companies pumping out cheap plastic knick nacks from China.

And is $6 per person really that bad? Put it in perspective, a family doctor seeing a normal volume of patients makes about $12 dollars a patient.
exmike is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2014, 2:27 pm
  #4  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ORD & DEN
Programs: UA Premier 1K 1MM, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 239
Something is a bit fishy with those numbers. If the average profit per passenger is $5.42, and the profit margin is 2.4%, that would mean the average revenue per passenger is around $220. Even if that is before taxes, that seems like accounting voodoo. I can't imagine ANY route where the fare plus fees is as low as $220 these days, much less having all the routes average that.
cubfan99 is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2014, 2:53 pm
  #5  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Dallas, TX
Programs: US Airways Chairman's Preferred, SPG Platinum, AMEX Platinum Card, Global Entry
Posts: 177
Originally Posted by cubfan99
Something is a bit fishy with those numbers. If the average profit per passenger is $5.42, and the profit margin is 2.4%, that would mean the average revenue per passenger is around $220. Even if that is before taxes, that seems like accounting voodoo. I can't imagine ANY route where the fare plus fees is as low as $220 these days, much less having all the routes average that.
If that figure takes into account multiple segments in one trip, it could be possible. Not sure how accurate the average fare prices are on Flight Aware, but $220 doesnt seem improbable.
LSUTigerWes is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2014, 2:57 pm
  #6  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by cubfan99
Something is a bit fishy with those numbers. If the average profit per passenger is $5.42, and the profit margin is 2.4%, that would mean the average revenue per passenger is around $220. Even if that is before taxes, that seems like accounting voodoo. I can't imagine ANY route where the fare plus fees is as low as $220 these days, much less having all the routes average that.
If you look at it as a passenger on a one way trip for $220 that makes sense - $440 for a roundtrip ticket seems like an avereage fare. Especially if you add in all the reward tickets that = $0 of flight revenue
sf26 is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2014, 3:04 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SEA
Programs: Million Miles achieved | 2017 Delta Platinum, United NADA, Global Entry, PreCheck, NEXUS
Posts: 1,295
I couldn't help but notice that there was no actual example given with real numbers to break it down. I guess we just have to trust the spin machine?

In the time of large corporations with billions of dollars of income paying zero taxes; CEO salaries reaching the sky; untold (and unknown) subsidies of corporations and Multi-billion dollar professional sports teams being non-profit organizations, call me skeptical.
Bear4Asian is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2014, 3:33 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Programs: AA, DAL, blah, blah, blah...The usual.
Posts: 646
Originally Posted by cubfan99
Something is a bit fishy with those numbers. If the average profit per passenger is $5.42, and the profit margin is 2.4%, that would mean the average revenue per passenger is around $220. Even if that is before taxes, that seems like accounting voodoo. I can't imagine ANY route where the fare plus fees is as low as $220 these days, much less having all the routes average that.
Cargo, my friend. Cargo.
airmotive is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2014, 5:13 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: 대한민국 (South Korea) - ex-PVG (上海)
Programs: UA MM / LT Gold (LT UC), DL SM, AA PLT (AC), OZ, KE; GE and Korean SES (like GE); Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,995
Cargo, my friend. Cargo.
Bingo! Including mail. I suspect some flights would go without passengers if the cargo load was enough. A little OT: Recently saw a entire pallet load of U.S. money being loaded on an international flight (to the U.S.). It had to be millions, if not billions. The bills were shrink-wrapped and not hidden by any opaque covering, so I assume they were old bills on their way back for destruction. Still, interesting sight.
relangford is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2014, 6:17 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: ORD
Programs: AAdvantage
Posts: 106
And Grocery Stores Claim 1.3% Margin

Originally Posted by cubfan99
Something is a bit fishy with those numbers. If the average profit per passenger is $5.42, and the profit margin is 2.4%, that would mean the average revenue per passenger is around $220. Even if that is before taxes, that seems like accounting voodoo. I can't imagine ANY route where the fare plus fees is as low as $220 these days, much less having all the routes average that.
For years grocery stores have cited profit margins hovering around 1%, in this case 1.3%. http://www.marketplace.org/topics/bu...ghly-desirable Yet grocery stores seem somehow to stay in business.

Clearly figures lie and liars figure.

One possible interpretation of the weasel-words, it could be $5.42 average per passenger segment. So a non-stop round trip would be $10.84 and a round trip with a change of planes would be $21.68.

And as another writer already wrote, if they are loading all their cost onto the ticket sales, the freight is then 100% profit.
pdsales is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2014, 7:06 pm
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 31,005
Originally Posted by pdsales
Clearly figures lie and liars figure.
Why? Having spent time in the industry, I can assure you those numbers are directionally correct.

A low margin on very high volume will yield sufficient profit to stay in business. Investors get paid in cash, not in percentages.
CPRich is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2014, 8:19 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Programs: AA EXP, UA Gold, SPG Plat
Posts: 386
If you tell me there's a business out there where I can average $5.42 profit per customer and I will have 100 million customer a year. I think that business is a slam dunk.
caimaster is online now  
Old Jun 3, 2014, 8:29 pm
  #13  
Moderator: United Airlines
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,841
Originally Posted by caimaster
If you tell me there's a business out there where I can average $5.42 profit per customer and I will have 100 million customer a year. I think that business is a slam dunk.
First I would ask what level of investment it took.
WineCountryUA is offline  
Old Jun 3, 2014, 10:07 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: IAH / HOU
Programs: UA GS, DL-Plat, Hilton Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Somethingist, Marriott Titanium Lifetime
Posts: 2,853
Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
First I would ask what level of investment it took.
And how much economic value that business has destroyed over the past three decades.
Air Houston is offline  
Old Jun 4, 2014, 2:42 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: PDX
Programs: kayaker
Posts: 851
Originally Posted by cubfan99
Something is a bit fishy with those numbers. If the average profit per passenger is $5.42, and the profit margin is 2.4%, that would mean the average revenue per passenger is around $220. Even if that is before taxes, that seems like accounting voodoo. I can't imagine ANY route where the fare plus fees is as low as $220 these days, much less having all the routes average that.
I also suspect that these numbers are for each way (if not each segment), for the sake of normalization. But even if not, remember that they are talking across the worldwide industry as a whole. Here in Europe, leisure flights are rarely more than $250 (my leisure flights average less than half that), including a very high proportion of taxes and fees. I'm sure other regions such as intra-China help to deflate the numbers as well.
o mikros is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.