It'sHip2B^2

I certainly agree that lifestyle change is the key to sustained weightloss.

I disagree with the some of the opinions about WW. But, of course, I'm biased since I'm a WW participater.

WW isn't about getting cake everyday. In fact, if you do that even if it fits within your daily/weekly points you won't get maximize your weight loss.

I didn't get fat by eating fruits and veggies. I got fat by eating pizza, dessert, and watching TV. It is irrational to think that someone can permanently give up those things. And overweight people often don't understand that there is the eat less of it alternative and how to impliment that eat less bad bad stuff mentality.

People who go without so to speak often end up in a binge. What WW does is give food ignorant (and that's how we all start) members a way to determine when it is OK to indulge. It also gives them choices instead of forcing some sort of food morality on them.

WW certainly pushes following the good health guidelines and consuming power foods (the system equivalent of filling foods). These are what you consume first and then if you are still hungry (which you rarely are) you can try a less healthy treat. WW also gives you a way to budget for that treat you want.

WW has taught me how to better feed my body. It has also taught me that being thin and having the foods I enjoy aren't mutually exclusive.

magiciansampras

I really like the WW approach because they do let you indulge in items you like, once in awhile. I would actually take this one step further and argue that there is value in binging. Not every day, of course, but maybe once a week. If you give yourself one day a week to be a pig, I think that makes the rest of the week easier to handle. It may also have a positive effect on your metabolism.

Thoughts?

It'sHip2B^2

I can't agree with the binge idea. At least not what I think of as a binge. For me a binge is when you consume many thousands of calories in one seating and you are eating beyond the point of full. I think of binge as binge drinking binge. Like Golden Corral threatens to ban you from their restaurants. That what I mean by binge.

If by binge you mean going out for dinner and having the whole Cheesecake Factory cheesecake slice for dessert when it would be better to split, then sure I agree whole heartedly. But I think that probably shouldn't be a weekly occurance.

Honestly, I think that you are better off giving yourself a cookie a day than you are eating a pound of cheesecake each week. And if a little sweet each day keeps you from bathing in caramel weekly, then the daily sweet would be the preferred indulgence.

magiciansampras

LOL we're close then. To me binge is just as you said, getting a full desert, ordering the rack of ribs for dinner, having a couple extra drinks than you normally would, that kind of thing. What I don't know is whether it is better to do this once a week or allow yourself stuff on a daily basis. That's an interesting one. I suppose if you can really limit yourself to one cookie, then it could work. That's the tough part though obviously.

It'sHip2B^2

I think that it really depends on what the "binge" is. There is no doubt in my mind that restaurants put far more butter and fatty substances into food than you would at home.

A slice of restaurant cheesecake (I'm thinking Cheesecake factory slices) can easily have 2500 Calories. I'm a 5'4" 130 lbs woman and that represents more than I should consume in a day. That is certainly not something that I should do each week regardless of how good I am on every other day. There is no doubt that doing that every week is bad to the n-th degree.

But let's say you bake a normal sized cheesecake using lowfat ingredients and the crust doesn't have lard/butter/the like and it is very thin. Then I don't see a problem with having that splurging on that once a week with a few glasses of wine and a low butter dinner.

I think what counts more than how frequently is how many Calories worth each week and how much you are exercising to balance the "sin."

magiciansampras

Yeah, it's long been my opinion that nearly anything cooked at home is better than eating out. I've seen food prepared in nice restaurants and let's just say that they're not shy with the butter and oil.

SkiAdcock

Hey, if you've burned up enough calories each week to offset the 2,500 calorie cheesecake, then I don't see a problem w/ having it even on a weekly basis. Not up to me to tell someone what they can have/not have or how often, as long as they're ok w/ it and have done enough to offset it.

From what I've read in magazines & online, people who give themselves permission to 'binge' one day week invariably don't 'binge', but might have a bit more than they normally do. Something about the giving themselves permission part then alleviates the stress & doesn't make them obsess on it. Speaking only for myself, I'd find the one day/week easier than the single cookie a day thing.

On a dif note - having cheesecake w/ low-fat ingredients & no butter in the crust - what's the point? That's like having no salt & butter on your popcorn at the movie theatre

Cheers.

MiamiAirport Formerly NY George

The problem becomes the way in which people go off their "diet." Also, too many people think that as long as they exercise they can eat and drink as they please (that might work until you hit about 35.) Look at the number of people you see at the gym 4-6 per week and they still are massively overweight. Of course, they are likely also not working out properly.

Remember think about how much exercise it takes to work off 2,000 extra calories (about 2.5-3 hours on a stairmaster.) So eating desert once a week or even twice a week becomes very different than pigging out on cheesecake every night. Also, the no fat thing means nothing.

SkiAdcock

I doubt if anyone pigging out on cheesecake every single night thinks they're on a diet

My point was that if someone wants a piece of cheesecake & is willing to do the work to offset the calories every week (or a cookie each night), good on 'em. The work may take longer as they get older, but if their calories out expenditure still exceeds calories in even w/ the cheesecake or cookie then they're doing ok.

To me there is no 'right' way to do something. What works for one doesn't work for another. If a 'free' day (which is what most diet trained folk call it vs a 'binge' day) works for some, and a little treat a day works for others, and by following a diet (short of a fad one) gets them thinking more healthy & adjusting their eating habits, then odds are it will work better long term. It's also why I don't buy into one 'diet' being better than another for those who follow them.

And then there are strange folk like me - I'm allergic to fish/seafood & I loathe most vegetables, so that limits most diets. Times I diet calorie counting works better for me. Just as saving most of the calories for the evening does because I'm an evening snacker, so I'd rather not have as many in the day and save 50% for dinner. A lot of folk like to make lunch their main meal. I've tried that. Doesn't work for me. I've also found that when I work out on a regular basis my body usually graviates towards healthier food options naturally. But I do what works for me, and if something else works for someone else, no harm, no fowl.

I tried a low-fat or no-fat spinach dip recipe one time when visiting my sister. One of the worst things I tasted in my entire life, and we tossed the entire batch! Some things are meant to be eaten in full-fat fashion - just in moderation.

Cheers.

It'sHip2B^2

Maybe so. But there are a lot of risks associated with 2500 Calorie slice of cheesecake. There are plenty of thin people out there with high Cholesterol and that's not so each to run off.

It's not always that fat that makes something taste good. It's often the seasonings. If you're open to trying a different spinach dip recipe try the following:

Use Pam to saute a diced onion add 1 glove minced garlic at the end. Put a drained can of artichoke hearts and one small jar of roasted red peppers in a food processor and process. Set that mixture aside. Put 4 oz fat-free cream cheese, 4 oz fat free sour cream, and a squirt of light mayo in the processor and process. Mix this into the artichoke mixture. Add the onions, 1/2 cup fat-free mozzarella, and 1/4 cup reduced fat grated parm cheese to the artichoke mixture. Finally add one box of thawed drained spinach and a pinch of salt and pepper. Mix well. Spray a pie dish with Pam and place the dip mixture into the dish. Top with a tbsp or two of grated parm cheese and bread crumbs. Bake at 350 degree until warm and melted.

I've served that dish at several pot lucks and everyone loves it. One is the wiser. Most of the time I take home an empty dish.

SkiAdcock

There might be plenty of thin people w/ high cholesterol (although presumably not the majority), but surprisingly enough there are heavy people w/ normal cholesterol & normal BP etc. Shrug.

My point is that if someone wants to have cheesecake or spinach dip or a cookie occasionally & their calorie out exceeds their calorie in & they're leading a healthy lifestyle overall, then good for them. An occasional piece or bite or drink isn't going to waylay either their overall eating habits or their health.

Automatically assuming they're going to fail because they do just sounds weird to me; it's like someone is projecting their own concern or dilemmas onto others.

And if one person likes WW & another likes Atkins, then whatever works for them individually is what works for them. There is no 100% method. Other than the imutable calorie out must be greater than calorie in, re: of how you get there.

I'm glad you and others have enjoyed your spinach dip, and your posting the recipe here will allow someone to try it. Someone more talented in the kitchen than me. As some FTers know, I rarely cook & use the oven to hold the placemats So my eating healthy options are pretty basic. Baked chicken, grilled steak, etc.

IMO you CAN tell the difference between the real stuff & fat free everything, and I haven't enjoyed the non-fat versions of things. But that's just me - and that's ok. Just like it's ok for others to try & find some fat-free versions of fattening things they really enjoy. I think people probably aren't able to tell low-fat from real as much as the non-fat because the difference isn't as extreme, but that's just a guess.

Diets do hold their place, especially when people are starting out & need to get familiar w/ healthy choices, as one FTer said. And as another said, the earth is round & people need to change habits, not just diet. Diets are not & never intended to be forever. But the idea that one can't occasionally have something fun or splurge for the rest of their life is a bit dreary.

In the words of Bette Davis: "There comes a time in every woman's life when the only thing that helps is a glass of champagne".

Cheers.

annerj

The binge day is an interesting topic. I have a friend who did the "body for life" diet. Its a pretty restrictive diet 6 days a week. 1 day per week they can eat whatever they'd like.

Initially the weight lost was amazing (to the tune of nearly a half pound a day average of a few months). He kept the weight off for a several years by sticking to the diet more or less. But as always, once totally off the diet the weight came back (not quite all of it yet). They seemed to enjoy the binge day and it was truly a binge.

SkiAdcock

I don't think a restrictive diet for years is going to last a lifetime. And if most of it has come back after several years, odds are he isn't doing the restrictive days anymore. I suppose the upside in his case was that he kept it off for years before falling off the wagon.

I know a # of people who eat quite well 6days/week who allow themselves a 'free day', but they don't regard it as a 'binge day' & the day might vary. They might have a bit more than they normally do, but they don't go overboard or if they do, they've planned for it accordingly.

I think if someone is touting something as a binge day, then odds are they will do exactly that.

But also, a diet isn't intended to be a forever thing. It's supposed to be short-term & help you to develop better habits overall.

Cheers.

kokonutz

Completely agree. There's definitely a mental aspect to unhealthy eating, especially binge eating...of course there is a relate mental aspect to unhealthy weight loss.

Gotta get your head straight if you want to get your body not just fit but also healthy.

annerj

+1

Yep...he slowly went off the diet and slowly put the weight back on. We was pretty lean for several years and still isn't up to where he was (but he continues to workout)

I saw them eat on the binge day....it was exactly that!