"Lap Child" rules?
Jul 16, 2012, 5:20 am
#61
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4
disappointing
I am disappointed and disturbed by the responses in here. Our first child a 21 month year old daughter will be flying with us from Israel to the USA via Toronto. Our tickets were $1660 a piece and so my daughter's was $166. I heard some people said a few dollars well I don't know what kind of budget everyone in here is living on but $1500 is not a few dollars. For a large part of this world $1500 is a decent monthly salary. We just cannot afford it. Yes we know it will be hard and yes we know our daughter will probably disturb many people on the plane (including us) but unfortunately although we will be very embarrassed we have no choice. We live in Israel and for 99% of my family (which all live in the USA) this will be the first and perhaps only time that they will be able to see her. On top of this the main reason being a wedding of my mothers only sibling who has only one child. I think you all should think twice before passing judgement.
Jul 16, 2012, 9:28 am
#62
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: BOS-TLV
Programs: Lots of them, no status
Posts: 1,318
Other than being a bit 
at why this ancient post was revived this morning, I'll respond anyway.
You are "disappointed and disturbed"? Why? Because most people--including parents of young children like myself-- don't approve of lap children? That's our prerogative.
Other people budgets aren't my concern, nor are family visits. Most of our family is in Israel, too, as a matter of fact, and none of them except my H's parents have met our daughter at all and they've only met our son once because between life expenses and everything else, it hasn't been in the budget to go visit as a family, and it's not in their budget to come to us, either. That's life! Not fun, but it is what it is.
We're hoping to go in the winter, which isn't the season we would LIKE to go, but we'll go then because the prices are lower and it makes it more realistic for us. You should do the same if you can't afford tickets for your kids. The attitude of "hey, my kid is probably going to disturb others, but oh well because I don't have $1600" is exactly why so many people are against lap children. No one here needs to "think twice." People who take huge toddler as lap "babies" are the ones who need to re-evaluate.
at why this ancient post was revived this morning, I'll respond anyway.You are "disappointed and disturbed"? Why? Because most people--including parents of young children like myself-- don't approve of lap children? That's our prerogative.
Other people budgets aren't my concern, nor are family visits. Most of our family is in Israel, too, as a matter of fact, and none of them except my H's parents have met our daughter at all and they've only met our son once because between life expenses and everything else, it hasn't been in the budget to go visit as a family, and it's not in their budget to come to us, either. That's life! Not fun, but it is what it is.
We're hoping to go in the winter, which isn't the season we would LIKE to go, but we'll go then because the prices are lower and it makes it more realistic for us. You should do the same if you can't afford tickets for your kids. The attitude of "hey, my kid is probably going to disturb others, but oh well because I don't have $1600" is exactly why so many people are against lap children. No one here needs to "think twice." People who take huge toddler as lap "babies" are the ones who need to re-evaluate.
Jul 16, 2012, 9:32 am
#63
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: IAD
Programs: No Loyalty to any airline
Posts: 2,378
I agree, why did you bump up this five year old thread and why do you think anyone is "passing judgment" on you? In any case, by your post you are doing the exact same thing. Did you think of that?
Jul 16, 2012, 12:24 pm
#64
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4
Other than being a bit at why this ancient post was revived this morning, I'll respond anyway.
You are "disappointed and disturbed"? Why? Because most people--including parents of young children like myself-- don't approve of lap children? That's our prerogative.
Other people budgets aren't my concern, nor are family visits. Most of our family is in Israel, too, as a matter of fact, and none of them except my H's parents have met our daughter at all and they've only met our son once because between life expenses and everything else, it hasn't been in the budget to go visit as a family, and it's not in their budget to come to us, either. That's life! Not fun, but it is what it is.
We're hoping to go in the winter, which isn't the season we would LIKE to go, but we'll go then because the prices are lower and it makes it more realistic for us. You should do the same if you can't afford tickets for your kids. The attitude of "hey, my kid is probably going to disturb others, but oh well because I don't have $1600" is exactly why so many people are against lap children. No one here needs to "think twice." People who take huge toddler as lap "babies" are the ones who need to re-evaluate.
at why this ancient post was revived this morning, I'll respond anyway.You are "disappointed and disturbed"? Why? Because most people--including parents of young children like myself-- don't approve of lap children? That's our prerogative.
Other people budgets aren't my concern, nor are family visits. Most of our family is in Israel, too, as a matter of fact, and none of them except my H's parents have met our daughter at all and they've only met our son once because between life expenses and everything else, it hasn't been in the budget to go visit as a family, and it's not in their budget to come to us, either. That's life! Not fun, but it is what it is.
We're hoping to go in the winter, which isn't the season we would LIKE to go, but we'll go then because the prices are lower and it makes it more realistic for us. You should do the same if you can't afford tickets for your kids. The attitude of "hey, my kid is probably going to disturb others, but oh well because I don't have $1600" is exactly why so many people are against lap children. No one here needs to "think twice." People who take huge toddler as lap "babies" are the ones who need to re-evaluate.
With that being said I do respect the opinion of everyone here albeit vehemently disagree with them. In my situation it's either go with a lap child or not go. I choose the former. Maybe they should have a weight limit but until then parents have the right to take lap children until age 2. One thing I can say for sure is that even though until now I never have, after this I will never fault another parent for deciding to take a lap child.
I decided to add a few things. There is a good chance that my daughter will behave well because she tends to behave well around people she doesn't know. Also for the record if she does cause problems I will really feel bad for those people that she bothers and I will apologize to them. I am not going to be like someone who says it's your problem not mine. We are also weighing the possibility of sleeping medication or benadryl. Also we will be checking a car seat anyways so if there is a possibility that there is an open seat, we will request to put the car seat there. I don't know if they will allow this even if the seat is open and if they do i still don't know if the seat meets regulations. Even still with all that being said, knowing my daughter I don't think the issue of sitting in our lap will really make a difference. If she starts getting cranky, the best place for her will be on mine or my wife's lap regardless of seat. The only thing the seat would do is make it easier on us when she is sleeping. Lastly I would like to say that my wife and I are taking all possible measures to give the best chance of a pleasant and peaceful flight for us, our daughter, and our fellow passengers other than of course buying another seat..
Last edited by bfis108137; Jul 16, 2012 at 3:45 pm
Jul 17, 2012, 4:05 am
#65
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: France
Programs: United Plus
Posts: 1,761
Please don't drug a lap baby. Only do it if you get your car seat on board. Otherwise, you're pinned under her.
Also, drugs can have the opposite effect, even if they took it before. You'd have a wired lap baby. Not fun!
Please don't be judgmental towards those of us who pay for a seat and bring a car seat on board. This is the only way to fly safely with a baby. Yes, it costs but different parents have different priorities. You have the luxury of traveling with a spouse and you only have one child. I fly alone with three children. We bought a seat for each child and used a car seat on board. I was also traveling to see family.
Also, drugs can have the opposite effect, even if they took it before. You'd have a wired lap baby. Not fun!
Please don't be judgmental towards those of us who pay for a seat and bring a car seat on board. This is the only way to fly safely with a baby. Yes, it costs but different parents have different priorities. You have the luxury of traveling with a spouse and you only have one child. I fly alone with three children. We bought a seat for each child and used a car seat on board. I was also traveling to see family.
Jul 17, 2012, 4:20 am
#66
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: Flying Blue, easyJet Plus (!)
Posts: 1,762
Given how safety oriented air travel is in general, I am amazed this is still allowed when e.g. standing passengers (who could "brace" by standing back to a bulkhead) aren't.
Neil
Jul 17, 2012, 5:00 am
#67
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Other than being a bit at why this ancient post was revived this morning, I'll respond anyway.
You are "disappointed and disturbed"? Why? Because most people--including parents of young children like myself-- don't approve of lap children? That's our prerogative.
Other people budgets aren't my concern, nor are family visits. Most of our family is in Israel, too, as a matter of fact, and none of them except my H's parents have met our daughter at all and they've only met our son once because between life expenses and everything else, it hasn't been in the budget to go visit as a family, and it's not in their budget to come to us, either. That's life! Not fun, but it is what it is.
We're hoping to go in the winter, which isn't the season we would LIKE to go, but we'll go then because the prices are lower and it makes it more realistic for us. You should do the same if you can't afford tickets for your kids. The attitude of "hey, my kid is probably going to disturb others, but oh well because I don't have $1600" is exactly why so many people are against lap children. No one here needs to "think twice." People who take huge toddler as lap "babies" are the ones who need to re-evaluate.
at why this ancient post was revived this morning, I'll respond anyway.You are "disappointed and disturbed"? Why? Because most people--including parents of young children like myself-- don't approve of lap children? That's our prerogative.
Other people budgets aren't my concern, nor are family visits. Most of our family is in Israel, too, as a matter of fact, and none of them except my H's parents have met our daughter at all and they've only met our son once because between life expenses and everything else, it hasn't been in the budget to go visit as a family, and it's not in their budget to come to us, either. That's life! Not fun, but it is what it is.
We're hoping to go in the winter, which isn't the season we would LIKE to go, but we'll go then because the prices are lower and it makes it more realistic for us. You should do the same if you can't afford tickets for your kids. The attitude of "hey, my kid is probably going to disturb others, but oh well because I don't have $1600" is exactly why so many people are against lap children. No one here needs to "think twice." People who take huge toddler as lap "babies" are the ones who need to re-evaluate.
The risk of a lap child infant getting injured on a plane and ending up in a hospital in the US is far lower than the risk of an infant getting injured or killed in a bathtub, pool or natural body of water in the US. And the risk of a lap child infant getting injured on a plane and ending up in a hospital in the US is higher than the risk of an infant getting harmed when being placed in a car seat, removed from a car seat or being transported in a car seat in the US? Let the actuaries figure that one out.
I find it completely reasonable that lap child infants are mostly an industry-standard allowance -- it is safer for infants than most all alternatives.
Is there even a statistically significant difference in safety risk between the use of an in-flight car seat as a child restraint and the use of alternative restraints, natural or artificial? Certainly not great enough difference to dissuade people from traveling by air with lap child infants.
Given the more objects an infant's parent/guardian has to carry and "secure" when transporting infants the greater the likelihood of injury of a young child, requiring a young child's parent/guardian to transport a car seat onto a plane for in-flight use is just asking for additional trouble. Keep this in mind more so, especially as young children flying with a single parent/guardian has displaced young children flying with both parents/guardians.
Jul 17, 2012, 11:24 am
#69
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,908
Since the same posters continue to make the same claims unsupported by facts, I'll respond again. Its perfectly safe to fly with lap kids although in coach this will be a miserable flight. If money and/or mileage is an issue try to time it around flights or routing with lighter load and take advantage of bassinets - holding a kid for many many hours is very very tiring. In premium cabins with flat beds this not an issue - we covered 35k flown miles with two lap kids in 6 weeks and flying was one of the easiest aspects of travel.
Ime benadryl worked on night flights but had rather limited effect during day flights. Ymmv - definitely try it at home first.
Ime benadryl worked on night flights but had rather limited effect during day flights. Ymmv - definitely try it at home first.
Jul 17, 2012, 11:44 am
#70
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,731
Since the same posters continue to make the same claims unsupported by facts, I'll respond again. Its perfectly safe to fly with lap kids although in coach this will be a miserable flight. If money and/or mileage is an issue try to time it around flights or routing with lighter load and take advantage of bassinets - holding a kid for many many hours is very very tiring. In premium cabins with flat beds this not an issue - we covered 35k flown miles with two lap kids in 6 weeks and flying was one of the easiest aspects of travel.
Ime benadryl worked on night flights but had rather limited effect during day flights. Ymmv - definitely try it at home first.
Ime benadryl worked on night flights but had rather limited effect during day flights. Ymmv - definitely try it at home first.
I am a big car seat advocate, but I have a different view on airplane safety and I do get into trouble a lot within my car seat community for having this view. Flying on a plane is infinitely safer than traveling in a vehicle.
Unfortunately I have seen car seat advocates tell people (online) that if they cannot afford a seat for a lap child, to drive (domestic flights) because they are endangering the other passenger (since baby is a projectile). That kind of attitude makes me sad.
I buy a seat for my infant because I cannot imagine how on earth I'm going to be able to keep him on my lap for several hours, I cannot even keep him on my lap at home for more than a few seconds at a time. Add to that that most seating configurations is 3-4-3 or 3-3, that means that you are potentially subjecting a stranger next to you to the shennanigans of your child. Buy my lap infant a seat means we as a family get an entire row to ourselves and bringing the car seat onboard means that my lap will get a break and I won't have to worry about my child trying to climb on the seat, get off the seat or otherwise be a nuisance. An 23 month old might somewhat understand when you say sit down, but between the ages of 10 - 16 months, they do not comprehend that they need to sit down in a seat.
Jul 17, 2012, 11:58 am
#71
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4
Please don't be judgmental towards those of us who pay for a seat and bring a car seat on board. This is the only way to fly safely with a baby. Yes, it costs but different parents have different priorities. You have the luxury of traveling with a spouse and you only have one child. I fly alone with three children. We bought a seat for each child and used a car seat on board. I was also traveling to see family.
Jul 17, 2012, 12:41 pm
#72
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,731
There are various safety features with how a bus responds in an accident that keeps passengers safe. I know school busses use compartmentalization and that keeps kids safe. In a collision, the padded high seatbacks forms a compartment that keeps the occupant relatively safe. Bus safety and lap children on a plane are two totally different puppies.
Jul 17, 2012, 1:47 pm
#73
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: BOS-TLV
Programs: Lots of them, no status
Posts: 1,318
I mean this in a nice way, but if you think you're being judged in a post that you weren't part of and which you pulled out of thin air 5 years after the fact, it's probably time to step away.
Lots of people don't agree with the concept of lap babies. It's not about you.
Lots of people don't agree with the concept of lap babies. It's not about you.
Jul 17, 2012, 3:47 pm
#74
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: IAD
Programs: No Loyalty to any airline
Posts: 2,378