To Car Seat or Not To Car Seat, That is the Question...[Merged Threads]
#481
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
GU. Once again you write "most" don't recommend. But you cannot find one. JUST one that does not recommend against flying with a lap child. ALL state that it is safer and preferable NOT to fly as a lap child. See Swise' note. But you will argue it does not say what it says.
As to "injuries you have seen" I guess you don't fly enough for the unexpected large drop in turbulence where everything goes flying. Or the coffee spilt on the lap child and burns them.
Again you ignore
CDC infants safety seats reduced infant injury in cars > 71%. The majority of those injured had improperly placed safety seats (eg: not rear facing, not middle of back seat, improper attachment to car). Across the country we find a greater than 95% misuse of car seats,” says Alisa Baer, M.D., a pediatrician and nationally certified child passenger safety instructor (who’s also known as The Car Seat Lady)
As to "injuries you have seen" I guess you don't fly enough for the unexpected large drop in turbulence where everything goes flying. Or the coffee spilt on the lap child and burns them.
Again you ignore
CDC infants safety seats reduced infant injury in cars > 71%. The majority of those injured had improperly placed safety seats (eg: not rear facing, not middle of back seat, improper attachment to car). Across the country we find a greater than 95% misuse of car seats,” says Alisa Baer, M.D., a pediatrician and nationally certified child passenger safety instructor (who’s also known as The Car Seat Lady)
You are welcome to spend your time listing all the governments agencies that don’t recommend against lap-children infants in planes, not that I expect you to do that in any sort of accurate, comprehensive way. Especially as that would cover far more government agencies than those government agencies that recommend against the bugbear of U2 lap-children in planes, I have no intent to compile a huge list of government agencies that don’t recommend against U2 lap-children in planes.
I have flown hundreds of thousands of miles per year for many, many years, and yet over many millions of miles of flights with some unexpected turbulence, lap children injuries from unexpected turbulence resulting in receptions by ground medics for blunt force injuries: zero.
Children in CRS/CRDs get burn injuries even in “properly placed car seats”, in the air and on the ground. Why ignore such injuries or real world use of CRS/CRD and all the other risks children face in the world that are better use of money than paying for U2 children to not be lap-children on planes? Some risk mitigation efforts are a better use for money than other risk mitigation efforts, no less so when dealing with extremely marginal risks where further risk reduction measures come with a negative opportunity cost in regard to child welfare/well-being — as is the case for those flying with U2 children and paying for a plane seat.
#482
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Jersey
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Lifetime PLT
Posts: 1,154
So we are doing a long haul with what will be a 1 year old. How does this work? we just buckle our car sear into the airplane seat? Do we need a specific one or can we use ours? Any issue buckling them into lie-flat seats if we can get upgraded?
#483
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Idaho
Programs: Delta PM
Posts: 352
Some lie-flat seats are not compatible with child seats. You should check with your airline.
As as far as how it works, its just like securing the child seat in your motor vehicle using the lap belt in your car (versus using the LATCH system).
#484
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,484
From the FAA website:
Flying with Children
Make sure your CRS is government approved and has "This restraint is certified for use in motor vehicles and aircraft" printed on it. Otherwise, you may be asked to check the CRS as baggage.
#485
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Jersey
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Lifetime PLT
Posts: 1,154
The child wear needs to be approved for use on planes, but almost all are these days. What brand/model will you be using?
Some lie-flat seats are not compatible with child seats. You should check with your airline.
As as far as how it works, its just like securing the child seat in your motor vehicle using the lap belt in your car (versus using the LATCH system).
#486
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,484
Chicco Carseats Frequently Asked Questions:
Q: Is the Chicco NextFit Convertible car seat appropriate for flying/air travel?
A: Yes. The Chicco KeyFit, KeyFit 30 and NextFit car seats are certified for usage on an aircraft (FAA approved.)
A: Yes. The Chicco KeyFit, KeyFit 30 and NextFit car seats are certified for usage on an aircraft (FAA approved.)
#487
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
The child wear needs to be approved for use on planes, but almost all are these days. What brand/model will you be using?
Some lie-flat seats are not compatible with child seats. You should check with your airline.
As as far as how it works, it’s just like securing the child seat in your motor vehicle using the lap belt in your car (versus using the LATCH system).
For most of the CRS approved for use by U2 children on common carrier flights, they may also work in some premium cabin lie-flat seats but not all even when looking at just one particular carrier, as equipment substitution can be an issue in that regard.
I am generally not an advocate of using the primary at-home car’s CRS for in-flight use, as the more a CRS is moved around and bumped around the more compromised it can become. And given U2 children are far more at risk in a CRS in a car near their home than as a lap child on a common carrier flight, having your primary car seat remain more securely in the primary automobile for U2 child transport near home is better than having the primary CRS repeatedly moved into and out of vehicles, bumped around and perhaps not as securely reinstalled upon return to use it in the primary at-home vehicle for U2 child transport.
Whether or not you have a separate CRS for travels by U2 children taking flights, the most important thing is knowing and followig up with proper installation in cars on then ground. That’s where the greatest risk is.
Last edited by GUWonder; Feb 18, 2018 at 4:49 pm
#488
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Austin TX
Programs: Mr Swise: AAdvantage LifetimePlt/3MM, HH Dmnd, SPG Plt
Posts: 1,451
The Cosco Scenera is what many of us prefer for air travel. It's super lightweight. Not fancy. But it does the trick. It might get a bit uncomfy for that long of a flight. Other easy air travel seats are the Combi Coccoro, the Evenflo Titan 65... I'm sure there are others, but I've gradually moved out of this scene as my boys are getting older. The key is to get a lightweight seat, so that you can easily lift it up above the seats as you walk down the aisle and so that it's easy to schlep through the airport and everywhere else.
Other tips:
Try and get a bulkhead seat, so that you can rear-face the car seat without obstructing the recline of the seat in front of you. Rear-facing car seats recline a bit more, so your baby will be more comfortable for sleeping.
Bring a stroller and attach hooks to the handlebar, so that you can easily hang the car seat off of it -- or any other luggage you might have. Gate-check the stroller.
Backpacks. It keeps your hands free for other things. If you have a shoulder strap style diaper bag, leave it at home and use a backpack. I like to have one with side pockets for water bottles.
Have a wonderful trip!
#489
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Jersey
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Lifetime PLT
Posts: 1,154
Your baby will likely outgrow that seat by the time they are 1. Ours outgrew our car seat with the same height/weight limits by 6 months old (but we had giant babies). You can take a look at your child's line on a growth chart to get an idea where they will be by age 1. It's the height limit that they outgrow, not the weight limit.
The Cosco Scenera is what many of us prefer for air travel. It's super lightweight. Not fancy. But it does the trick. It might get a bit uncomfy for that long of a flight. Other easy air travel seats are the Combi Coccoro, the Evenflo Titan 65... I'm sure there are others, but I've gradually moved out of this scene as my boys are getting older. The key is to get a lightweight seat, so that you can easily lift it up above the seats as you walk down the aisle and so that it's easy to schlep through the airport and everywhere else.
Other tips:
Try and get a bulkhead seat, so that you can rear-face the car seat without obstructing the recline of the seat in front of you. Rear-facing car seats recline a bit more, so your baby will be more comfortable for sleeping.
Bring a stroller and attach hooks to the handlebar, so that you can easily hang the car seat off of it -- or any other luggage you might have. Gate-check the stroller.
Backpacks. It keeps your hands free for other things. If you have a shoulder strap style diaper bag, leave it at home and use a backpack. I like to have one with side pockets for water bottles.
Have a wonderful trip!
The Cosco Scenera is what many of us prefer for air travel. It's super lightweight. Not fancy. But it does the trick. It might get a bit uncomfy for that long of a flight. Other easy air travel seats are the Combi Coccoro, the Evenflo Titan 65... I'm sure there are others, but I've gradually moved out of this scene as my boys are getting older. The key is to get a lightweight seat, so that you can easily lift it up above the seats as you walk down the aisle and so that it's easy to schlep through the airport and everywhere else.
Other tips:
Try and get a bulkhead seat, so that you can rear-face the car seat without obstructing the recline of the seat in front of you. Rear-facing car seats recline a bit more, so your baby will be more comfortable for sleeping.
Bring a stroller and attach hooks to the handlebar, so that you can easily hang the car seat off of it -- or any other luggage you might have. Gate-check the stroller.
Backpacks. It keeps your hands free for other things. If you have a shoulder strap style diaper bag, leave it at home and use a backpack. I like to have one with side pockets for water bottles.
Have a wonderful trip!
#490
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 270
Transport Canada is conducting a review to consider the risks and benefits of making child restraint systems (car seats) mandatory on board commercial flights for children under two years. Seats and lap belts on board todays commercial aircraft are not well suited to safely restrain infants or children under a certain weight and/or height. Have your say at the following site until April 30, 2018:
https://letstalktransportation.ca/car-seats
https://letstalktransportation.ca/car-seats
#491
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Paris, Chicago, Rome, London, St John
Programs: DeltaPrivateJet, Ritz PP, Delta 4 million miler - Flying Colonel; AA Exec Plat (3 million + USAir)
Posts: 796
Some of the most robust CRS for auto use for U2 children indeed wont work for common carrier use even in economy class, but it mostly comes down to labeling for FAA-approved use (or perhaps near-equivalent foreign institution-approved use, if relevant) in-flight, at least with regard to economy class seating.
For most of the CRS approved for use by U2 children on common carrier flights, they may also work in some premium cabin lie-flat seats but not all even when looking at just one particular carrier, as equipment substitution can be an issue in that regard.
I am generally not an advocate of using the primary at-home cars CRS for in-flight use, as the more a CRS is moved around and bumped around the more compromised it can become. And given U2 children are far more at risk in a CRS in a car near their home than as a lap child on a common carrier flight, having your primary car seat remain more securely in the primary automobile for U2 child transport near home is better than having the primary CRS repeatedly moved into and out of vehicles, bumped around and perhaps not as securely reinstalled upon return to use it in the primary at-home vehicle for U2 child transport.
Whether or not you have a separate CRS for travels by U2 children taking flights, the most important thing is knowing and followig up with proper installation in cars on then ground. Thats where the greatest risk is.
#492
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Paris, Chicago, Rome, London, St John
Programs: DeltaPrivateJet, Ritz PP, Delta 4 million miler - Flying Colonel; AA Exec Plat (3 million + USAir)
Posts: 796
Older post GU. BUT ALL US GOVERNMENTAL AGENCIES recommend against flying with lap-child infants. THEY ALL RECOMMEND the usage of a proper car seat. You will not find one such agency (even a minor one) that does ok not using one.
#493
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Paris, Chicago, Rome, London, St John
Programs: DeltaPrivateJet, Ritz PP, Delta 4 million miler - Flying Colonel; AA Exec Plat (3 million + USAir)
Posts: 796
Why would you ignore that? You need to make a comparison to the real world. If people choose to drive, they aren't going to drive in some hypothetical perfect scenario, they're going to drive how people actually drive, using carseats how people actually set up their carseats. If you're going to say that driving with kids isn't really that dangerous because the injuries are due to misdeployed carseats, then you should be comparing it to flying with kids in the absence of turbulence, mechanical failure, or pilot error.
#494
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
A U2 child being driven in a car is more risky than a U2 child flying as a lap child whether or not a proper seat Is used.
#495
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3
Car seat vs. BA Britax baby seat
Not sure if this question belongs in this thread but here goes... I am planning a trip from Singapore to London with a toddler who will be 23 months' old at the time of travel. Having a hard time deciding between these options:
Any advice would be appreciated.
- Flying BA and reserving one of the Britax baby seats. We had a good experience on a long-haul flight via BA when baby was 11 months - the Britax baby seat thing they have was great as she could be buckled into her own reclining seat. She slept super well and the flight was a dream. However at 23 months I fear she would have outgrown the seat and be uncomfortable. Does anyone have any experiences with the BA Britax seat for a toddler approaching 2?
- Flying SQ and buying her her own seat w/ car seat installed. If the Britax baby seat is out of the picture then our airline of choice would be SQ, and we would bring along an approved car seat (Cosco Scenera NEXT). However, SQ requires car seats to be forward-facing. My concern is how well she would sleep in an upright position without recline. I imagine it would be quite uncomfortable. Again, anyone have experiences with this?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Last edited by mmuse; Mar 26, 2018 at 11:50 pm Reason: formatting