To Car Seat or Not To Car Seat, That is the Question...[Merged Threads]
Nov 22, 2017, 1:49 am
#451
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When the topic is child safety seats, yes, your comparisons to circumcision and cigarettes are completely out of place, bordering on a rant.
And feel free to keep arguing but the law requires children under certain ages/sizes to be restrained in car seats in most circumstances and if a mandatory reporter discovers that a child is not being properly restrained in a motor vehicle they are required to report that in most states. That's where the "mandatory" part comes in.
And feel free to keep arguing but the law requires children under certain ages/sizes to be restrained in car seats in most circumstances and if a mandatory reporter discovers that a child is not being properly restrained in a motor vehicle they are required to report that in most states. That's where the "mandatory" part comes in.
Jan 19, 2018, 8:28 am
#452
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I have already cried like 3 times. I can't figure out best way to do this.
I'm flying with an almost 2 year old and a 10 month old. I planned to pull them through the airport in carseats on 2 britax luggage carts and carry diapers/stuff in a backpack. The 10 month old is a lap child and I'm hoping that if there is an extra seat, I can bring the second car seat on plane. But now I'm freaking out that car seat will be too big, too heavy. How am I going to install car seats on plane while watching my kids? I flew with them in August with a friend and no car seats (although I did purchase a seat for my toddler) and it was a nightmare. My toddler screamed A LOT, tantrum on the floor, nothing would calm her down. Then my baby cried a little because she couldn't get comfortable to sleep with me holding her. I should have purchased 3 seats but it's too cost prohibitive now. Is car seat on the luggage cart best option?
I'm flying with an almost 2 year old and a 10 month old. I planned to pull them through the airport in carseats on 2 britax luggage carts and carry diapers/stuff in a backpack. The 10 month old is a lap child and I'm hoping that if there is an extra seat, I can bring the second car seat on plane. But now I'm freaking out that car seat will be too big, too heavy. How am I going to install car seats on plane while watching my kids? I flew with them in August with a friend and no car seats (although I did purchase a seat for my toddler) and it was a nightmare. My toddler screamed A LOT, tantrum on the floor, nothing would calm her down. Then my baby cried a little because she couldn't get comfortable to sleep with me holding her. I should have purchased 3 seats but it's too cost prohibitive now. Is car seat on the luggage cart best option?
Jan 25, 2018, 7:46 am
#453
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One FAA-allowed car seat for the infant and a CARES harness for the toddler work well when possible for such situations.
Charged with child abuse by whom? 
Which decent prosecutor in which jurisdiction is out there capable of getting a conviction for child abuse for what you claim? Even one example would be news worthy. Can you provide even one example of a conviction for that charge which you claimed?
I have been there and done that. Maybe breaks as a father as FA helps. EARLY BOARDIING is a must!!!. You must also do TWO car seats. No question. (aside for the fact that if the lap child is injured -by physics it is impossible to hold if the plane hits an air pocket - you will be charged with child abuse) . The kids are happiest and most comfortable in their seats they are used to them.. Get the 2 year old a game boy to play with. Something to suck on for the 10 month hold for take off/ landings for his ears. You will meet some flight attendants who state you cannot have 2 car seats. The FAA rule says you can't block a stranger. ( would download that in case) You put on seat by the window and one by the aisle. I guarantee you that there will be many who will help you. If you were Dad, even more. If you have to change a diaper (or use the lav yourself) ask a FA. Usually they will have no problem helping.
Which decent prosecutor in which jurisdiction is out there capable of getting a conviction for child abuse for what you claim? Even one example would be news worthy. Can you provide even one example of a conviction for that charge which you claimed?
Jan 25, 2018, 2:07 pm
#454
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One FAA-allowed car seat for the infant and a CARES harness for the toddler work well when possible for such situations.
Charged with child abuse by whom?
Which decent prosecutor in which jurisdiction is out there capable of getting a conviction for child abuse for what you claim? Even one example would be news worthy. Can you provide even one example of a conviction for that charge which you claimed?
Charged with child abuse by whom?
Which decent prosecutor in which jurisdiction is out there capable of getting a conviction for child abuse for what you claim? Even one example would be news worthy. Can you provide even one example of a conviction for that charge which you claimed?
Jan 25, 2018, 3:18 pm
#455
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Several in Chicago and know of several in Dallas. It is a parent’s responsibility to protect an infant and any deviation is abuse, first event (unless child seriously hurt and one had coma in Chicago and was) is that the par3ntbis monitored for future event. The danger is well established and ALL recommend not doing lap child
Burn injuries of children are the most common child injury in-flight requiring medical treatment on the ground. In-flight CRS/CRD use for U2 children doesn’t do a whole lot to protect such children from such burn injuries.
Jan 29, 2018, 6:52 am
#456
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One FAA-allowed car seat for the infant and a CARES harness for the toddler work well when possible for such situations.
Charged with child abuse by whom?
Which decent prosecutor in which jurisdiction is out there capable of getting a conviction for child abuse for what you claim? Even one example would be news worthy. Can you provide even one example of a conviction for that charge which you claimed?
Charged with child abuse by whom?
Which decent prosecutor in which jurisdiction is out there capable of getting a conviction for child abuse for what you claim? Even one example would be news worthy. Can you provide even one example of a conviction for that charge which you claimed?
Why they may not get a conviction (one family did as he admitted he knew the risk) the complaint stays with the "forever". Why in you feel it is different than having the child unbelted on your lap in your car. In one large study looking at inflight occurances, lap babies ere involved in > 35% of pediatric-in-flight injuries. GU stated burns most common, trauma is 2% and burns 1.3% while burns (scalding) are the most common mechanism = and they are most common on lap babies. Closed head injuries were the 4th most common injury from falls from lap babies. There group also previously identified healthy lap infants who died from "going flying" when the plane his an air pocket.
Pediatric Emergence Care Vol 00, Number 00 Month 2016
Jan 29, 2018, 1:46 pm
#457
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Originally Posted by BeatCal
Why they may not get a conviction (one family did as he admitted he knew the risk) the complaint stays with the "forever".
Originally Posted by BeatCal
Why in you feel it is different than having the child unbelted on your lap in your car. In one large study looking at inflight occurances, lap babies ere involved in > 35% of pediatric-in-flight injuries. GU stated burns most common, trauma is 2% and burns 1.3% while burns (scalding) are the most common mechanism = and they are most common on lap babies. Closed head injuries were the 4th most common injury from falls from lap babies. There group also previously identified healthy lap infants who died from "going flying" when the plane his an air pocket.
Pediatric Emergence Care Vol 00, Number 00 Month 2016
Pediatric Emergence Care Vol 00, Number 00 Month 2016
Data for most of the years in this current century indicate that reported burns in-flight are more common than all other individual type of in-flight injuries of children. CRS/CRD in-flight do what good against burns? Nada?
You do realize that lap-child U2s aren’t the only ones classified as pediatric subjects?
There are far greater risks for U2 infants’ health and well-being than being a lap-child on daily flights on common carriers.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jan 29, 2018 at 1:55 pm
Jan 29, 2018, 2:04 pm
#458
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Criminal charges in the US for child abuse are not secret information. Where are the public records of such charges and how they are ending up in court? Sounds like more scare-mongering to claim people are being hit with criminal child abuse charges for transporting U2 children as lap-children, as allowed by law across all US jurisdictions.
The above claim is meaningless for this situation: families aren’t charged and subject to conviction as a family; individuals are a different story, but where is the evidence of it applicable for this situation?
The US Government and insurance companies worldwide consider it far safer for U2 children to fly as lap children than to drive in a car without a CRS/CRD or even to drive in a car with a CRD/CRS.
Data for most of the years in this current century indicate that reported burns in-flight are more common than all other individual type of in-flight injuries of children. CRS/CRD in-flight do what good against burns? Nada?
You do realize that lap-child U2s aren’t the only ones classified as pediatric subjects?
There are far greater risks for U2 infants’ health and well-being than being a lap-child on daily flights on common carriers.
And the article I referred you to separated out the infants lap kids from the others.
GU you usually are mostly correct in the posts you have written. But in this you are WAY OFF base.
As to burns, a large percentage of them were in laps with zilch in restrained infants.
Greater risks? Perhaps? But it is your job to protect your child from those you can.. PERIOD
If you fly into Chicago and have a lap child that went flying, I guarantee you will be able to see the inside of one of our beautiful Court Rooms and have a child abuse investigation in your record for the rest of your life. And if the child is seriously injured and you know the risks (which you do), several of our judges will convict you.
As to public records, investigations are not - at least not here.
strike three. You are out
Jan 29, 2018, 4:07 pm
#459
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Safer to drive: Actually that is very very old data. The current data state that the change of a infant being injured when PROPERLY restrained in a backward facing car seat in the middle of the back seat approaches zero!
And the article I referred you to separated out the infants lap kids from the others.
GU you usually are mostly correct in the posts you have written. But in this you are WAY OFF base.
As to burns, a large percentage of them were in laps with zilch in restrained infants.
Greater risks? Perhaps? But it is your job to protect your child from those you can.. PERIOD
If you fly into Chicago and have a lap child that went flying, I guarantee you will be able to see the inside of one of our beautiful Court Rooms and have a child abuse investigation in your record for the rest of your life. And if the child is seriously injured and you know the risks (which you do), several of our judges will convict you.
As to public records, investigations are not - at least not here.
strike three. You are out
And the article I referred you to separated out the infants lap kids from the others.
GU you usually are mostly correct in the posts you have written. But in this you are WAY OFF base.
As to burns, a large percentage of them were in laps with zilch in restrained infants.
Greater risks? Perhaps? But it is your job to protect your child from those you can.. PERIOD
If you fly into Chicago and have a lap child that went flying, I guarantee you will be able to see the inside of one of our beautiful Court Rooms and have a child abuse investigation in your record for the rest of your life. And if the child is seriously injured and you know the risks (which you do), several of our judges will convict you.
As to public records, investigations are not - at least not here.
strike three. You are out
This FTer finds nothing guaranteed in your claim about lap-child infants leading to the accompanying adult being a criminal defendant inside of a US court room for a criminal case for doing what US laws do not forbid and US regulations explicitly allow: to fly with a lap-child infant, one who is way more likely to get injured on the drive to/from the airport in a CRS/CRD than in a plane due to being a lap-child infant.
You can try to send someone to jail or prison for doing what US laws and regulations allow — not that a reasonable prosecutor, judge and jury would care to do as you dream —, but don’t be surprised if it comes back with a civil lawsuit against the accuser and a lawsuit that could even use posts on FT as evidence against the accuser.
Jan 29, 2018, 7:46 pm
#460
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Moderators: is it possible to split the discussion of the pros and cons of traveling with a baby in a car seat vs as a lap child into a separate thread? It's a worthwhile discussion but has got very intense and has taken us away from the original question here about how to deal with a baby and a toddler if you're flying as their only accompanying adult.
Jan 29, 2018, 9:02 pm
#461
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The article you mentioned isn’t news to me; and having read it well before this thread, I know the limitations of that article.
This FTer finds nothing guaranteed in your claim about lap-child infants leading to the accompanying adult being a criminal defendant inside of a US court room for a criminal case for doing what US laws do not forbid and US regulations explicitly allow: to fly with a lap-child infant, one who is way more likely to get injured on the drive to/from the airport in a CRS/CRD than in a plane due to being a lap-child infant.
You can try to send someone to jail or prison for doing what US laws and regulations allow — not that a reasonable prosecutor, judge and jury would care to do as you dream —, but don’t be surprised if it comes back with a civil lawsuit against the accuser and a lawsuit that could even use posts on FT as evidence against the accuser.
again the US trauma registry data show that infants properly restrained in a backward facing, middle of back seat have an injury rate approaching zero. With your own data of serious burns in lap kids ....
and civil laws are prohibited against accusers of possible child abuse. I really don’t understand why someone would not protect their most valuable “possession” their child. As to the OP, I think all agree with two secure seats.
Jan 29, 2018, 9:08 pm
#462
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Originally Posted by GUWonder;29354996[left
You can try to send someone to jail or prison for doing what US laws and regulations allow —
Last edited by jrhmdtraum; Jan 29, 2018 at 9:14 pm
Jan 30, 2018, 9:44 am
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ALL agencies - federal and private - recommend against having a lap child. And surprise. - despite there being “no law”, if your child is harmed by your doing something for which you knew there was a risk >> you can (and should) go to jail. It is your job as a parent to protect your infant and I’m sorry for those kids whose Dad does not think so!
That’s just wishful thinking above. When the government bans bathtubs, toilet bowls, sinks, washing machines, pools and all automobile travel by road for children, then get back to us about that “risk” claim.
Jan 30, 2018, 10:05 am
#464
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GU
again the US trauma registry data show that infants properly restrained in a backward facing, middle of back seat have an injury rate approaching zero. With your own data of serious burns in lap kids ....
and civil laws are prohibited against accusers of possible child abuse. I really don’t understand why someone would not protect their most valuable “possession” their child. As to the OP, I think all agree with two secure seats.
Jan 30, 2018, 11:52 am
#465
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GU, I'm not sure of the data in the other forum but jrh is correct. There is a US trauma registry maintained by all trauma centers in the US and the Amer College of Surgeons. It is the most complete data there is on traumatic injures. AND, the incidence of injury to an infant who is properly restrained does approach zero - even when all other occupants of the same car are killed. Yes there are deaths to car fires, going off a cliff, etc.