I am not sure that I understand your comment.

What I was told is that even though the child is paying for a seat, the security procedure is: if a child is in a car seat on the plane, we should take him on the lap during takeoff/landing/turbulance. Basically he is not allowed to sit in his car seat. The rest of the flight he is allowed to be in the car seat.

If we are not using the car seat, the child have to use a regular belt or if the child is small then he has to be on the lap in the three situations and on the regular airplane seat during the flight.

Over 2 we have no choice but to buy a ticket for him.

No, we don't want to drive in Italy, specially on the Amalfi coast and in Rome. Last year I have arranged a taxi driver to pick us up with a car equipped with a child car seat, as in Italy the law is strict on this. So the company provided a car seat at no charge. I am planning on doing the same. Otherwise we will be taking train and bus or other public transportation. For short distances taxis are allowed not to use a car seat even here in Montreal. Here, however our neighbor dropped us at/from the airport and we installed one of our car seats in his car.

I talked to my husband and we probably won't be taking it with us as it is a pain to carry it especially if it is for nothing.

Thank you everyone again for sharing your experiences.

My understanding is that for European carriers a child over two years of age cannot sit in someone's lap when the seatbelt sign is on. They have to sit in their own airline seat. So, before takeoff they have to sit in the regular seat. Once you're cruising, you can install the car seat. If there's turbulence, you'll have to remove the car seat and sit the child back in the regular seat.

Our son is nearly 6 months old - so far travel has been straightforward, but we're now toying with exactly the same problem - do we take the carseat - for a trip later in the year...

This is even more complicated.

I have asked this question when talking to Air France and they answered that they do allow to keep the car seat, however if the child is too small for the age, they would attach him with the lap belt. This I guess applies only if in bulkhead. This is for official answer.

You are right however and what we had experienced last year even with the baby on Lufthansa flight was not exactly what was written on their site ( I had printed it and showed to the crew), because depending on type of plane they had a different sort of regulations. Plus with aliances you never know the exact company, so you basically don't know what the policies are. So on the big Transatlantic flight the baby had to be on our lap, no lap belt. We asked about the use of a soft baby carrier and the answer was: you can use whatever you like but the airline is not responsible in case if something happened if you don't follow the recommendations of the airline. On the European flight, which is a smaller plane we were given a lap seat belt one way Lufthansa, and Air Dolomiti on the way back.

Perhaps you should ask this question in the Flying Blue forum (that's KLM and Air France combined).

Cross-posting is officially against the terms of use of the website, but we're at an impasse here and someone over there may have first hand experience of the situation.

Good luck!

I carried two car seats many times for my twin daughters - it really isn't the Hurculean task or huge pain some make it out to be. There are much larger burdens than strapping a couple of lightweight car seats to the piggyback strap of a rollaboard. Two seats was really no big deal. One seat? Absolutely No Big Deal. Others' mileage may vary.

I agree that the OP was given somewhat confusing info about holding the child on the lap. I've heard that many European carriers require parents to hold kids under the age of two on laps (despite having purchased a seat and bringing a car seat) but a child OVER the age of two? That doesn't make any sense to me.

As for the kids being willing to sit in the car seat for several hours - my kids were very used to sitting in their car seat for hours in our cars, and seemed to appreciate the familiarity of their car seat on the airplane. And familiarity equalled (at least in our case) very quiet and contented long-haul flying children. Others' mileage may vary.

Thank you everyone again. I like this forum.

We won't be taking the car seat as our son hates being restrained for a long time. I could also exchange some ideas with parents on another forum and it seems that if we can avoid it it is better. Somebody mentionned another problem when using car seat on the plane: it won't be possible to recline the airplane seat and with a pitch that most of the planes do have today, if the person in front reclines her seat, it won't be too comfortable. It is impossible to use the small table and the baby has his feet in somebody's back if it is not on somebody's head. If he is able to grab the persons hair, it will be a big scandal, as he likes pulling on hair (please, don't laugh, it is true).

My first thought was to use it for better security, but if we have to remove it or keep the child on the lap during takeoff/landing/turbulance, I don't see how can this improve security.

Is 18-20 months old enough to fly 8 hours without a car seat?

I can't speak for Air France, as I've never flown them w/ a carseat, but I can tell you that in general, European carriers discourage their use on planes, and as far as I've been able to determine, every EU country gives final authority on carseat use to the airline. US law says that if you purchase the seat a child of <40 lb. is entitled to use a carseat; I've never been able to find an equivalent law anywhere in the EU. (BTW, US law is at 14 CFR 121.311)

For this reason we always flew US carriers over the water when we had a wee one with us, because I wasn't about to make that trip without a carseat. I became aware of the safely ramifications after I started researching the law re: when and how carseats may be used on aircraft, but that wasn't my initial reason for using it. My initial reason had nothing to do with turbulence, and everything to do with wanting to be able to *sleep*. I just did not trust what Jr. might get up to if Mum & Dad fell asleep and he was free to wander about the aircraft, as he most assuredly would have done.
IME, the absolute worst period for squirminess and determination to escape from arms was at about 14-18 months old. The carseat held him captive in a way he really didn't fight, because he was used to that implacable reality in the car. We were able to eat and sleep, and for that we were everlastingly grateful.

It was a bit of a hassle to carry it on airport transfers in cities, but not so much that it wasn't worth it to us to bring it for the long flight. (We always did use it driving in the countryside, as few of my family live in major cities.)

Yes certainly. Car seat is a pain on the aircraft. If you need it at the destination (driving around) then go ahead and check it in...but feel no guilt or fear about taking the child on board without a carseat.

Well, my perspective is the exact opposite - having the car seat on the plane was wonderful - it kept my son safely where he needed to be, lifted him up high enough to use the tray table and see out the window, was familiar to him for sleeping, and so on. It was far less trouble to bring the seat than deal with a wandering, renegade kid! And there was no possibility that a seat belt would have held him down for a moment at 3 - he wiggled far too much, and took delight in "escaping" from things.

Also, some posters seem to be saying NO European airline allows kids in safety seats at take-off/landing: in our experience flying within Europe, KLM staff don't give a hoot. They just checked that we actually had tickets for 3 seats, and then never said a word about the actual seat.

My comment was related to the question posed re. 18-20month old.

But for 3yo I'd definitely ditch the carseat.

That said, for something like this, there probably isn't one universal answer for everyone.

You should always ask the airline that you are using what the policies are. Some airlines display it clearly on their web site. When we traveled last year with our 18 month baby, we found out that not all airlines are whiling to sell you a seat for the baby, and would tell you to keep him on your lap. In any case whenever there is turbulence or takeoff/landing they ask you to keep the baby on your lap (at least it seems to be standard in Europe). So we had purchased a baby ticket at 80$, and all went fine. In any case if you purchase or not a seat, try to get the bulkhead. We had plenty of space for the floor (provided by the crew) bed and when the baby wasn't sleeping he's got some place to play and walk arround us. He wouldn't stay quite with a car seat or without. Our flight was 7.5 hours going to Europe and 8.5 h when coming back.

For example Air Canada specifies that babies under 2 years should use the car seat if you buy a seat for them, then they say that they recommend the use of the car seat for children under 40 lbs. But each company is different and you should double check with them.

Somebody mentionned KLM. I saw on their site that they allow car seats with all the details included.

Toddler in Car Seat or Check It?
 

I am sure this has been asked a million times, and I have found a few related links...however, I am traveling on Wed. 11/22 (Busiest Day of travel in US) with my husband and 2 year old daughter. She obviously has her own seat....should I check her car seat and let her sit on her own? Or should we lug that monstrosity and make her sit in it?

We are flying ORD - ATL - PHX....the last thing I want is for her to spend the entire flight kicking the seat in front of her!!! I know how annoying that is and it's difficult to enfore the "no kick policy" to a 2 year old.

What are your thoughts?
Thanks

ORD-PHX 3h 40 min, 1,444 miles

ORD-ATL 1h 50 min, 600 miles
ATL-PHX 4hr 5 min, 1,584 miles

My thoughts - rebook onto a direct flight, then without the connection, the car seat will be a lot less hassle.