Business Class and First Class with children [Merged Threads]
Mar 19, 2019, 6:06 am
#451
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SEA once more (previously CDG and NRT)
Programs: Former DL DM and UA 1k, now a J class free agent (UA Gold, AS MVP Gold)
Posts: 2,450
I ran into this problem with AF, and it took me a while to find out the whole story on why it is. The window seat requirement is not related to the issue where car seats aren't allowed on aircraft where the seats are angled more than 18 degrees off the center line. The window seats are angled just as much as the center ones, so that isn't the issue. It is a different issue, as it applies even to children who aren't in a car seat. (I had it a couple years ago when flying with my daughter who was 7 years old at the time).
The reason why they require the kid in the window seat is for ease of access in an emergency. The center seat pair in their 1-2-1 business class seating is partitioned. The upper privacy divider can be removed, which allows for conversation and helps access, but the access between the two seats is still considered obstructed, because the partition goes all the way down to the floor. With the privacy divider removed, you'd have access so that you could assist with oxygen masks, so that is ok. The problem is that you don't have good access to help the child with their seatbelt in the event of an evacuation, as the center console obstructs your access. They want the parent to be sitting across the aisle from the child so that access is totally unobstructed. The problem is how to come up with a system that enforces the parent being across the aisle from a child? The easiest way for them to do this was to force the child into the window seat.
We ended up doing this for when our family of four travelled together:
Seat Reservations 1-2-1:
Aisle - Middle - Middle - Aisle
Oldest Child - Parent1 - Parent2 - Youngest Child
But then once on board, we swapped seats thusly:
Oldest Child - Parent1 - Youngest Child - Parent 2
Result was we still had unobstructed access to the youngest child, and we could keep a better eye on them.
The reason why they require the kid in the window seat is for ease of access in an emergency. The center seat pair in their 1-2-1 business class seating is partitioned. The upper privacy divider can be removed, which allows for conversation and helps access, but the access between the two seats is still considered obstructed, because the partition goes all the way down to the floor. With the privacy divider removed, you'd have access so that you could assist with oxygen masks, so that is ok. The problem is that you don't have good access to help the child with their seatbelt in the event of an evacuation, as the center console obstructs your access. They want the parent to be sitting across the aisle from the child so that access is totally unobstructed. The problem is how to come up with a system that enforces the parent being across the aisle from a child? The easiest way for them to do this was to force the child into the window seat.
We ended up doing this for when our family of four travelled together:
Seat Reservations 1-2-1:
Aisle - Middle - Middle - Aisle
Oldest Child - Parent1 - Parent2 - Youngest Child
But then once on board, we swapped seats thusly:
Oldest Child - Parent1 - Youngest Child - Parent 2
Result was we still had unobstructed access to the youngest child, and we could keep a better eye on them.
Mar 19, 2019, 3:14 pm
#452
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,548
Anyone wanna bet AF will let parent sit anywhere in the cabin as long as the child is in a window?
cynically yours,
EP
Mar 31, 2019, 8:32 am
#455
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Buffalo, but live from suitcase
Programs: Delta, AA, Marriott
Posts: 240
i believe the CARES works on all due to the way it is made
"CARES fits on virtually all Economy, Business, and First Class seats. The CARES red loop will extend to a circumference of up to 62 inches. If you will be flying on an airline with extra large seats or a sleeper seat, you may want to check with the airline to see if CARES will fit.
CARES should not be used on a seat equipped with an airbag."
Homepage
"CARES fits on virtually all Economy, Business, and First Class seats. The CARES red loop will extend to a circumference of up to 62 inches. If you will be flying on an airline with extra large seats or a sleeper seat, you may want to check with the airline to see if CARES will fit.
CARES should not be used on a seat equipped with an airbag."
Homepage
Apr 18, 2019, 7:34 am
#457
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 32
In our experiences on AA (673, 777), BA (777, 747) CX (777, 350) the CARES harness does not work on J class seats. And, every single flight attendant asked us not to install it. I went ahead and tried each time, and nope, doesn't work. Obviously, these are different airlines, but the type of J seat may or may not be the same as one of these (I can't remember the J seat manufacturer off the top of my head in AF 772)/
Apr 18, 2019, 9:21 am
#458
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,639
In our experiences on AA (673, 777), BA (777, 747) CX (777, 350) the CARES harness does not work on J class seats. And, every single flight attendant asked us not to install it. I went ahead and tried each time, and nope, doesn't work. Obviously, these are different airlines, but the type of J seat may or may not be the same as one of these (I can't remember the J seat manufacturer off the top of my head in AF 772)/
Jul 12, 2019, 6:50 am
#459
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Paris & Scotland (Laird), "Suite on the World"
Programs: Hertz platinum, Bonvoy titanium , Delta flying colonel/platinum/MM, retired old men board member
Posts: 592
yes they do
If you are flying on a U.S. registered carrier you do not need permission to use CARES restraint. CARES is certified by the FAA for use on all U.S. registered airlines. Occasionally, we come across airline personnel who are not familiar with it so it is helpful to point out the “FAA APPROVED” printed on the label. You may also want to carry a copy of “Child Safety on Airplanes” printed off the FAA website or downloaded from the Kids Fly Safe website under In-Flight Documents In-flight Documents.
If you are flying on a U.S. registered carrier you do not need permission to use CARES restraint. CARES is certified by the FAA for use on all U.S. registered airlines. Occasionally, we come across airline personnel who are not familiar with it so it is helpful to point out the “FAA APPROVED” printed on the label. You may also want to carry a copy of “Child Safety on Airplanes” printed off the FAA website or downloaded from the Kids Fly Safe website under In-Flight Documents In-flight Documents.
Last edited by knownothing; Jul 12, 2019 at 6:54 am Reason: adding
Aug 23, 2020, 1:33 pm
#460
Join Date: Jan 2010
Programs: AA BA CO DL UA US
Posts: 814
FAMILY OF 4: AA 777-200 in J - seat arrangement 1-2-1 (window seats face towards window)
Kids are ages 8 and 5. They are pretty good in the plane. We have never taken this configuration before. What is the best way for this flight.
A) Everyone in the same row
B) Two in the window, two in the center (for example: 1A, 1D, 2A, 2D)
Kids are ages 8 and 5. They are pretty good in the plane. We have never taken this configuration before. What is the best way for this flight.
A) Everyone in the same row
B) Two in the window, two in the center (for example: 1A, 1D, 2A, 2D)
Aug 23, 2020, 7:04 pm
#461
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: SAN
Programs: AS 100K, DL MM, AA PLT
Posts: 2,934
FAMILY OF 4: AA 777-200 in J - seat arrangement 1-2-1 (window seats face towards window)
Kids are ages 8 and 5. They are pretty good in the plane. We have never taken this configuration before. What is the best way for this flight.
A) Everyone in the same row
B) Two in the window, two in the center (for example: 1A, 1D, 2A, 2D)
Kids are ages 8 and 5. They are pretty good in the plane. We have never taken this configuration before. What is the best way for this flight.
A) Everyone in the same row
B) Two in the window, two in the center (for example: 1A, 1D, 2A, 2D)
Nov 6, 2020, 12:07 pm
#462
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 86
I'm going to Korea next year and flying with 1 year 11 month old child and my wife
Debating between 2 First Class vs 3 Econ (or business if possible) seats on Korean Air A380
When we flew United Polaris 787 10, it was a little narrow for both my wife and child as a lap child. We put the seat down and he played well, but that was only a 5 hours flight. My wife was a little cramped
Will first be wide enough? It looks almost 6 inches wider and I thought would be more comfortable for both of them. Other option is to do 3 seats in economy and potentially business if I can swing the extra miles
Debating between 2 First Class vs 3 Econ (or business if possible) seats on Korean Air A380
When we flew United Polaris 787 10, it was a little narrow for both my wife and child as a lap child. We put the seat down and he played well, but that was only a 5 hours flight. My wife was a little cramped
Will first be wide enough? It looks almost 6 inches wider and I thought would be more comfortable for both of them. Other option is to do 3 seats in economy and potentially business if I can swing the extra miles
Nov 7, 2020, 1:39 pm
#463
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 9,120
I'm going to Korea next year and flying with 1 year 11 month old child and my wife
Debating between 2 First Class vs 3 Econ (or business if possible) seats on Korean Air A380
When we flew United Polaris 787 10, it was a little narrow for both my wife and child as a lap child. We put the seat down and he played well, but that was only a 5 hours flight. My wife was a little cramped
Will first be wide enough? It looks almost 6 inches wider and I thought would be more comfortable for both of them. Other option is to do 3 seats in economy and potentially business if I can swing the extra miles
Debating between 2 First Class vs 3 Econ (or business if possible) seats on Korean Air A380
When we flew United Polaris 787 10, it was a little narrow for both my wife and child as a lap child. We put the seat down and he played well, but that was only a 5 hours flight. My wife was a little cramped
Will first be wide enough? It looks almost 6 inches wider and I thought would be more comfortable for both of them. Other option is to do 3 seats in economy and potentially business if I can swing the extra miles
Jan 9, 2021, 8:59 pm
#464
Join Date: Jan 2010
Programs: AA BA CO DL UA US
Posts: 814
FAMILY OF 4: AA 777-200 in J - seat arrangement 1-2-1 (window seats face towards window)
Kids are ages 8 and 5. They are pretty good in the plane. We have never taken this configuration before. What is the best way for this flight.
A) Everyone in the same row
B) Two in the window, two in the center (for example: 1A, 1D, 2A, 2D)
Kids are ages 8 and 5. They are pretty good in the plane. We have never taken this configuration before. What is the best way for this flight.
A) Everyone in the same row
B) Two in the window, two in the center (for example: 1A, 1D, 2A, 2D)
Jan 9, 2021, 10:03 pm
#465
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: SAN
Programs: AS 100K, DL MM, AA PLT
Posts: 2,934
I get annoyed when I see parents do this as they frequently end up having to raise their voice and/or get up to talk to their kids, which is very annoying if you’re sitting across the aisle from it all.